FB: Empire 8

[BoSox0322]

NSRB isnt asking for congratulations... i'm just surprised that there werent any exciting moments in the Bombers game over Utica that could have made the list.  But Sarge if you want to go down that route... these games werent all to impressive either.  NSRB isnt looking for charity on behalf of the Bombers... just some media coverage

-Cornell 4-2 (1-2 Ivy) beat Brown: 2-4 (1-2 Ivy) at HOME, in OT 38-31

-Colgate football (4-3) beat Towson (3-5)  at HOME 27-17

-Cortland football 6-1 (5-0) beat Montclair St 5-2 (2-2) at HOME  43-13

-New Hartford 3-4 (3-3) beat ESM 6-1 AWAY 20-14

-Syracuse football... do I even need to go and get the numbers.  they beat Buffalo... yes Buffalo.  Syracuse was listed 3.5 points higher before the game.  So they won by 12, in the Carrier Dome... which reportedly had the lowest turnout in 20 years.



so dont be going down that trail... these games were nothing to write home about either with the exception of the HS game since ESM was the Section III Title Class A Champ and leading the league this year.  Like NSRB said before... just looking for some coverage

All games you listed are still more interesting than Ithaca v Utica

[BoSox0322]

Man... After the passionate Harry freakin Potter discussion I'm having a tuff time taking any of your opinions seriously at this point

if you are going to read it... read it in a closet with a flash light and dont tell anyone...

[dewcrew88]

Kemp the head coach of UC is gone.  Assistant head coach will coach the last three games and there is no word why Kemp is gone except the AD saying that it was a personnel issue.

It's really sad to see him go, as Coach Kemp was the architect of the program.

[dewcrew88]

UC looked like they were on the right track when they went 6-4, but then the bottom dropped out.
Me thinks that there is much more to the story!

Yes, I think so as well, but I'm not sure. In the O-D, Spartano said that it was all about the performance on the football field....

I really hope Fisher doesn't put 70 on my boys...

[SJFF82]

In the ATR, DC indicates that 'Wick would be out in a 3-way tie with AU and SJF at season's end (all at 5-1 E8) due to their loss to NE.  I thought the prior discussion last week was that based on SOS, 'Wick would actually take the E8 in a 3-way, and that their second loss was a non-factor in this.  If I missed some other discussion, forgive me in advance...I did not have time to read all the posts since last Sat.

[dewcrew88]

Everything we have seen since the 6-4 season shows that it was a fluke.  They haven't just lost a ton of games since then, they have gotten their doors blown off every Saterday.  I'd be interested to know what DC really thinks of Kemp but, I suspect he is too honarable a person to actually post it.

Also, someone just emailed me the story from the OD.  Classic picture they chose to run.  Kemp is trying to coach them up at practice while #21 gives himself The Stranger with both hands.

I think that Kemp is a terrific coach who did the best he could with a new program -- and guys (especially in the first couple of years) who didn't come to Utica specifically to play football. If his firing was due to performance, that's one thing. You want the performance to be there on the field, but I hope it wasn't anything else. Knowing Jim Spartano, the AD at UC, I'm going to bet it is based on performance only.

BTW: That picture is of Kirk Jellerson, not Kemp.

[dewcrew88]

In the ATR, DC indicates that 'Wick would be out in a 3-way tie with AU and SJF at season's end (all at 5-1 E8) due to their loss to NE.  I thought the prior discussion last week was that based on SOS, 'Wick would actually take the E8 in a 3-way, and that their second loss was a non-factor in this.  If I missed some other discussion, forgive me in advance...I did not have time to read all the posts since last Sat.

See, this is the way I figure it. Things aren't based on SoS anymore, I don't think. I think it's done with opponents winning percentage (OWP) and opponents' opponents winning percentage (OOWP). I think the Empire 8's used to be on SoS, but I believe they defer to the NCAAs idea.

PC can either back me up or tell you exactly what is correct for the Empire 8. My reasoning was that if they all finished in a tie, I think Fisher would get the AQ, Alfred, having only lost to Fisher, would get in to the Pool C rankings, and Hartwick, even though they would also be 5-1 in conference, would be left out because the WNEC loss is a regional loss, which looks really bad on the resume.

[Knightstalker]

Wouldn't a three way tie be broken by the E8's tiebreaker?  Or don't they have an established tie breaker policy?

[JQV]

Wouldn't a three way tie be broken by the E8's tiebreaker?  Or don't they have an established tie breaker policy?

The last line of tiebreaker adopted by the E8 is the NCAA tiebreaker.  Either SOS or OWP or OOWP.

[BoSox0322]

Are we sure a coach at the D3 level can be fired soley based on his on field performance (record)?  I dont think he can... if he resigned obviously thats different.

[dewcrew88]

Are we sure a coach at the D3 level can be fired soley based on his on field performance (record)?  I dont think he can... if he resigned obviously thats different.

According to Pat from the front page, midseason firings in D3 are rare, but I'll bet it's not unheard of.

[FisherAlum05]

Are we sure a coach at the D3 level can be fired soley based on his on field performance (record)?  I dont think he can... if he resigned obviously thats different.

Sure a coach can be fired for on field performance.  It is college football.  Honestly, I know some people inside the program and have personal friends that played at Utica.  I've heard some things that are quite worrisome.  At Fisher, the players police themselves.  No drinking during the week, only saturday nights after games.  No drugs, go to classes, etc.  If rules are broken, the players on the unity council decide the consequences.  At Utica, its much different.  My friends, whom both started at Utica for 2 years, did whatever they wanted whenever they wanted.  Drinking everynight, even the night before games.  Never went to class, got kicked off campus, etc. 

Until some discipline is adopted by the players, it will be hard to change things.  A new coach is probably exactly what they need. 

DewCrew, I know your an alum so dont take anything I just said personally.  Just some things I've heard.

[JQV]

Are we sure a coach at the D3 level can be fired soley based on his on field performance (record)?  I dont think he can... if he resigned obviously thats different.

What special protection would a D3 coach enjoy preventing his termination?  This is America.  You can fire an employee for any reason you damn well please.

Sure a coach can be fired for on field performance.  It is college football.  Honestly, I know some people inside the program and have personal friends that played at Utica.  I've heard some things that are quite worrisome.  At Fisher, the players police themselves.  No drinking during the week, only saturday nights after games.  No drugs, go to classes, etc.  If rules are broken, the players on the unity council decide the consequences.  At Utica, its much different.  My friends, whom both started at Utica for 2 years, did whatever they wanted whenever they wanted.  Drinking everynight, even the night before games.  Never went to class, got kicked off campus, etc. 

Until some discipline is adopted by the players, it will be hard to change things.  A new coach is probably exactly what they need. 

DewCrew, I know your an alum so dont take anything I just said personally.  Just some things I've heard.

This made me spit out water.  The Unity Council?  Seriously?  Hysterical.  Do they wear hooded black robes and light their meeting room with torches?

[not so rowdy bomber]

Man... After the passionate Harry freakin Potter discussion I'm having a tuff time taking any of your opinions seriously at this point

if you are going to read it... read it in a closet with a flash light and dont tell anyone...

NSRB was not part of the Harry Potter discussion... he hopes this comment isnt directed towards him.  NSRB is glad to see the Harry Potter discussion is over.

as for Ithaca/ Utica...  you're telling me that in the 44-7 blowout there wasnt any fantastic moment that could have made the highlight reel?  i.e. 80 td?  Kemps final moments?  .. nothing...  wth...  I figured a blowout would be more exciting to show highlights much like the Patriots games of late than two middle of the pack teams slugging it out, or bottom of the barrel teams (i.e. Syracuse and Buffalo).. seriously. no one cares about SU football for now.  We've been in basketball mode since the first kickoff of Greg Robinsons putrid season began.

[AUKaz00]

In the ATR, DC indicates that 'Wick would be out in a 3-way tie with AU and SJF at season's end (all at 5-1 E8) due to their loss to NE.  I thought the prior discussion last week was that based on SOS, 'Wick would actually take the E8 in a 3-way, and that their second loss was a non-factor in this.  If I missed some other discussion, forgive me in advance...I did not have time to read all the posts since last Sat.

Frank and I had a little collaboration into the OWP math from our interpretation of the current NCAA tie-breaker rules.  Here's what I wrote back on Sunday:

Let's simplify the OWP logic for a potential tie-breaker for E8 champ.  The current numbers do not include the winning percentages of the teams which have yet to be played.  For Alfred, that is Hobart, Ithaca and Fisher - 3 teams with winning records which means regardless of how Alfred fairs against those teams, their OWP will rise.

In a scenario where Alfred, Fisher and Hartwick all finish with 1 conference loss, the results of the E8 will be a complete wash for all 3 teams with the exception that currently Hartwick gains a game in OWP on Alfred and Fisher because of their loss to WNE while Alfred and Fisher have not lost OOC (they lose that edge in WNE's winning percentage, but to simplify the math make it +1 Wick, -1 AU and Fisher).

Since conference records are a wash for all three teams, the difference in OWP for all three will be determined by the winning percentages of their OOC competitors.  So, we only need to add up the records of each team's OOC opponents, subtract the result of their meeting with each other and add in the difference from the last paragraph.

The current results of that calculation are: Alfred's OOC: 14-12, Fisher's OOC: 9-15, Wick's OOC: 9-18.  Add in the difference from paragraph 2 and we're currently at Alfred: 14-13, Fisher: 9-16, Wick 10-18.  The only changes to these will be the results of the OOC teams in the last 3 weeks of the season.

Using the OWP for tie-breaking a Pool C bid would require adding the E8 records in to compare to other conferences.  So, from this analysis it would seem that Alfred is currently in the driver's seat of the 3-way tie-breaker as well.

On Saxon Warriors and on Hartwick Hawks!