FB: Empire 8

[maxpower]

Gentlemen:

First of all to compare Kramer and Juvan is a joke in my book (although it is a very biased book)
Kramer has gone 4-1 in the playoffs and Juvan has only seen 1 post season game in the same amount of time.  The only reason you guys were seeing Kramer have happy feet last year was because for the entire game, he barely had time to pass.  Anyone that was there saw that he was getting to the back of his drop and then being hit.  HOWEVER, when he did get time to throw, he made absolutely huge plays that kept us in the game ( the out pass to Smith that broke and the pass down the middle to Reile that set us up for a TD).

So to say that Kramer is comparable to Juvan in my humble opinion is a joke, the only reason people would think that is cause DJ looks like a stereotypical quarterback while Kramer,  well..... doesn't.
Being able to throw the ball 60 yards and be 6'3 doesn't make you a winning quarterback automatically in any level.  Kramer is a leader and is cool under pressure, I'd take him over any other quarterback in the D3 game right now.

edit: This is not me coming out of the closet and confessing my love to one, Rob Kramer, just stating my point now that I finally got to read PP's on a night off

RR- obviously not calling your experience into question, and my karma is going to take a huge hit, but:

1) What does the number of playoff games they have played in have to do with their prowess as a quarterback? Is Kramer a better QB than Boltus because of this? Keeley? Felicetti?

2) Other than that you don't really say anything about what makes Kramer better... he's a great leader and cool under pressure... well you don't know anything about Juvan's leadership and everything I've heard about the MUC game says that Juvan stepped up and made his throws in the face of four huge rushers every time, the same situation which you yourself said gave Kramer "happy feet". So, if you're calling a comparison between them a joke, I'd like to see you provide some more real evidence. Also, that line about taking him "over any QB in D3 right now" really just highlights your bias and inability to make any real comparison. How many QBs outside of the East Region do you even know about?

[Frank Rossi]

I love the fact that you guys are debating a quarterback whose season is finished, while the real comparisons to be made are between SJF and Curry for this weekend.  I've never seen Juvan play, but with all the hype here, he'll never meet my expectations if I see him play in person after all this!

[maxpower]

I love the fact that you guys are debating a quarterback whose season is finished, while the real comparisons to be made are between SJF and Curry for this weekend.  I've never seen Juvan play, but with all the hype here, he'll never meet my expectations if I see him play in person after all this!

Um, define "real comparison".

[Frank Rossi]

I love the fact that you guys are debating a quarterback whose season is finished, while the real comparisons to be made are between SJF and Curry for this weekend.  I've never seen Juvan play, but with all the hype here, he'll never meet my expectations if I see him play in person after all this!

Um, define "real comparison".

The most important one and only one that really matters this week.

[maxpower]

I was being facetious.

[Tags]

I love the fact that you guys are debating a quarterback whose season is finished, while the real comparisons to be made are between SJF and Curry for this weekend.  I've never seen Juvan play, but with all the hype here, he'll never meet my expectations if I see him play in person after all this!

The real deal is that the Ithaca guys have waited & are still waiting for Juvan to live up to the potential (or maybe hype) that he's been given. He had a solid game against MUC, so they're running with it in hopes next year he will finally break out... can't say as I blame them I guess, we'll see how he actually does.

He loses Donovan, who is not on Robby's level by any stretch, but still a good runner - so like Kramer, he'll have to do more with less in 2008. We'll see how he does - Kramer is 10-1 right now, the year after losing the dominant running attack he had the year before, so if Juvan can do that I'll say he's comparable to Kramer. If he has another 8-3 year, I say no.

Say what you want boys, but I gave it a pretty fair assessment there.

[maxpower]

I don't know Tags, our arguments tend to be "Juvan is better at this, this and this and has progressed pretty astoundingly the last seven or so weeks of the season", where as yours seem to be "Kramer has been in more big games and is better at the fringes of the game" and based more on who they are surrounded by.

[RunningRobby25]

Do I need to bring up last year's game vs. Fisher where we can talk about "happy feet"?  Granted this year I don't remember the entire game, but again-- how cool under pressure was he then?

And yes, I'll take Kramer over any other QB I know about in D3.  That includes Boltus, Juvan or Keeley-- even though he doesn't have the number's he has more field awareness and more pocket presence than any of those three (aka Tom Brady like)-- You're welcome Tags, you know I hate the Pats.

Who cares what his numbers are, I'm bringing up the 4-1 record in the playoffs max becuase HE MADE IT TO THE PLAYOFFS.
He turned a team around that was struggling the first three games of the year and we turned into the team we are today.  I will say that he's missed some big throws this year, but when it comes to consistency, and that's what you need at this level, there is no other QB better than Kramer.  I'll argue with you on that point all night. 

He doesn't need the big name recievers to go up and make plays-- that's why Timmy and Jimmy aren't seen as flashy or anything spectacular, b/c Kramer drops it into their arms almost every time.

[RunningRobby25]

another thing, why does a QB have to progress over 7 games or so? 
Don't you think they should be ready to play from week 1? 

[Tags]

None of this really matters --- the only things that matter are:

A) Who's making the trip to Alliance two Saterday's from now?
B) How many times will Robby & I stumble back & forth across this street Wednesday evening?

[RunningRobby25]

haha tags, I had to describe to the people of Paychex the wonders of Liberty St. that are The Pickle, The Nickel and the Elks  8)

[Tags]

I may not leave the Elks... perhaps for one @ the Nickel if I can walk over 8)

[boobyhasgameyo]

So you guys are related right?  Brothers? Cousins? Brothers in the way black people mean it? Which is more meaningful I think....

[boobyhasgameyo]

and that question is aimed for Mark and Tags if that wasnt made clear

[FisherAlum05]

Gentlemen:

First of all to compare Kramer and Juvan is a joke in my book (although it is a very biased book)
Kramer has gone 4-1 in the playoffs and Juvan has only seen 1 post season game in the same amount of time.  The only reason you guys were seeing Kramer have happy feet last year was because for the entire game, he barely had time to pass.  Anyone that was there saw that he was getting to the back of his drop and then being hit.  HOWEVER, when he did get time to throw, he made absolutely huge plays that kept us in the game ( the out pass to Smith that broke and the pass down the middle to Reile that set us up for a TD).

So to say that Kramer is comparable to Juvan in my humble opinion is a joke, the only reason people would think that is cause DJ looks like a stereotypical quarterback while Kramer,  well..... doesn't.
Being able to throw the ball 60 yards and be 6'3 doesn't make you a winning quarterback automatically in any level.  Kramer is a leader and is cool under pressure, I'd take him over any other quarterback in the D3 game right now.

edit: This is not me coming out of the closet and confessing my love to one, Rob Kramer, just stating my point now that I finally got to read PP's on a night off

Well said Robby.  I would take Kramer over Juvan as well.  Although Juvan might have the more impressive physical tools, Kramer is a much better QB when it comes to game management.  And he rarely makes any mistakes.  But, thats just my humble opinion