FB: Empire 8

[Spark57]

hmm says in his profile that he was a senior at SU, I assume he just didn't play one of the years so he has eligibility, but did he graduate from Syracuse and is just going to Hartwick for an advanced degree?  What's the deal? 

I assume he redshirt his freshmen year.

[AUPepBand]

Pep here reporting from Mayberry where the alums are gathering in town for their annual reunion. Good times! The Class of 1958 has gone all out and is holding its own "St. Pat's Parade" starting now, with class members of various sorts marching, riding, etc. up Main Street from McLane Center, then up Saxon Drive to King Alfred's statue. Among those in the parade is RedTackle's pops, a member of Alfred's back-to-back undefeated 1955 and 1956 football teams. Pep looks forward to finally meeting Pops RedTackle.

The parade will include five bikers who will be completing a bike trip from Philadelphia....re-enacting a bike trip that a few of them completed ten years ago for their 40th reunion.

For a webcam view of the end of the parade, go to:

http://www.alfred.edu/virtual_tour/webcam.html

As for football....over 100 freshman recruits coming to Saxonville in a couple months. Woo hoo!

[DanPadavona]

We are approaching a couple months until the season... I can't wait for it to come again. Unfortunately the NJAC board doesn't have too much going on.  There's JT, Rams, and a few others but it looks as though I'll have to stick around here for any entertainment...

LOL.  Three months from now, it will still be pretty much JT and Rams (and Phil of course) on the NJAC board. For such a competitive conference, the board has very little support compared to E8 and LL.

2008 Cortland schedule is online:
http://cortlandfootball.com/sched.htm

Apparently we are playing Ithaca again this season...

[DanPadavona]

Is Cortland joining the Empire 8?

The answer for now, is no.  But the door is not yet closed.  My latest blog touches on the Empire 8's offer to Cortland to join as a football member, and the very real possibility of a SUNY or upstate based conference.

http://cortlandfootball.blogspot.com/

[boobyhasgameyo]

I appreciate the input Dan, these boards have been dead lately.  I read the blog and those reasons for Cortland not joining I don't really see as great reasons personally.  Fisher just recently within the last year upgraded weight room facilities, before that it was one tiny room in which everybody had to use (athletes and regular students alike).  So I don't know why Cortland would struggle so much with their weight rooms especially when they have 2 weightrooms I believe.  Also private schools trying to boost recruiting numbers in order to draw in more students to the school and hence more money shouldn't really matter for a state school that gets state funding.  They don't need extra money to stay alive as an institution because they are getting the money pumped to them.  Plus they have more students enrolled collectively as a school than a college like Fisher.  So they don't need to try and get those 100 recruits that will never play.  I just think for travel purposes alone it makes sense for them to join, not to mention how much more it would strengthen the conference and create some great rivalries.  That's how I see it anyway. 

[DanPadavona]

Yeah I agree, and I would assume there are other reasons which I would not be made privy to.  One thing which I may not have made clear in the blog entry is I that I don't see this as a matter of right and wrong.  It's simply one way of doing things versus another.  I don't see this reasoning as ultimately taking away the possibility.

Frankly I was shocked to hear there really was an offer, and we really did turn it down.  I know Cortland has wanted to join the Empire 8 for a long time, since before it was officially formed. 

I agree that travel and geographical rivalries are two huge reasons Cortland should eventually accept the offer.  For me personally, it is a tremendous burden to travel from Vestal to Brockport one week, and then from Vestal to Glassboro and Ewing the next two.  I gather JT has the same issues running Rowan's site, as I have not seen him come up to Cortland since I've been running my website.  Cortland - Rowan is a fun rivalry, but man, 5+ hours one way is way too long.  I can see doing it once per year like Ithaca has done with Norwich in past years, but not every other week.

This is the first time my sources have told me that the idea of an upstate conference including SUNY members was not a pipe dream.  So that gives me hope.  In fact, they went as far as to say they expect it will be a done deal within a few years.  I would not have believed this could happen a year ago.

[John McGraw]

Once I heard the announcement that the Empire 8 was going to admit public schools for football, the first choice that came to mind was Cortland. I'm not terribly surprised the offer was made since it makes sense for a lot of reasons to have Cortland as a football-only member. While Cortland may not have the roster size of some of the Empire 8 schools or the weight room facilities, they have one of the nicest playing facilities (SCSC) in upstate New York and the northeast region.

Competition-wise, I'd imagine the Red Dragons would compete among the conference's top tier with Ithaca, St. John Fisher and Alfred. They have held their own over the years with Ithaca and I don't see them not being able to keep up with the rest of the conference.

I'm with Dan on this in that I think Cortland will eventually join the Empire 8 at some point. Dan, good to see you back on the boards. 

[DanPadavona]

Agreed John, and good to see you too. 

I would also assume Cortland would join Ithaca, Fisher, Springfield, and Alfred in a merry-go-round of championship contentions.  The bigger picture for the Empire 8 is it would keep their automatic Pool A bid, while making it the best conference in eastern region without question.  Am I right that Norwich was due to leave the Empire 8?

[JQV]

I think this is Norwich's last season in the E8.  They announced their intention to leave last fall which lead to this move.  I am really surprised Cortland didn't jump at this opportunity.  Maybe part of it is old biases about public and private schools mixing in athletics (biases which go both ways) need to be overcome before everyone realizes this is a good idea.

[Jonny Utah]

I think this is Norwich's last season in the E8.  They announced their intention to leave last fall which lead to this move.  I am really surprised Cortland didn't jump at this opportunity.  Maybe part of it is old biases about public and private schools mixing in athletics (biases which go both ways) need to be overcome before everyone realizes this is a good idea.

It is a good idea for upstate football, but here are some things that I noticed.

-With a new SUNY league, Cortland might find itself going to the playoffs every year.  They have the best facilities, probably the best academics, and probably the best tradition out of all the SUNY schools.  They also seem to be able to recruit from every single part of NY (nyc, westchester, LI, upstate) while the other schools still seem more regional.

-Im not sure if the coaching staff funding should have anything to do about it.  I mean, the 60-80 incomming freshman that want to play are going to be under the JV staff that I assumed was always there.  And this staff is made up of grad assistants, volunteer coaches, recent grads that want their foot in the door etc.  I dont see money as an issue here (especially seeing that the SUNY people decided to give them so much money in facilities anyway).  Looking at their coaching staff, it seems that Cortland has as many coaches (who hold the same grad/other coach positions) as similar private and public d3 schools.

-Im also not sure how the SUNY system runs anyway.  Is it Cortland AD or President who would decide wheter or not Cortland would or could join the E8, or would it be up to the SUNY head administration?

-Im not sure about the weightroom argument either.  I can't see there being a smaller weightroom in the country than the one IC football has used the last 50 years at Cerrache.

-It is also clear to me that Cortland has put an emphasis on college football as much as anyone in the country.  They wouldnt have built that stadium if they didnt.

[JQV]

-Im also not sure how the SUNY system runs anyway.  Is it Cortland AD or President who would decide wheter or not Cortland would or could join the E8, or would it be up to the SUNY head administration?

This is a great point I had not considered.  Does anyone out there know for sure?  If someone outside of Cortland gets to make this final decision I could see them not wanting any SUNY schoo in the E8 for one of two reasons:

1) More than one SUNY school is interested (Buff State, Brockport, Morrisville, and Cortland) so they won't choose one above the others;

2) They think they can get an auto-bid of the SUNYAC sponsors football so they don't want to lose a member to a private conference.

-Im not sure about the weightroom argument either.  I can't see there being a smaller weightroom in the country than the one IC football has used the last 50 years at Cerrache.

I thought the same thing when I read that part but thought I would leave it to someone forced to struggle in that closet to respond.  +k.

[John McGraw]

But how far off is the actual SUNY league? Sure, it'd be nice to win a SUNY league and get an auto bid into the playoffs but what if that league never comes to pass?

In theory, you have five SUNY schools with football now, what two others are going to pony up to the bar and start football?

Sure Morrisville and Maritime and the two newest but I can't see for example, Oswego, Fredonia, Geneseo, Plattsburgh or any of the other SUNYAC schools starting up a program.

[Jonny Utah]

Agreed John, and good to see you too. 

I would also assume Cortland would join Ithaca, Fisher, Springfield, and Alfred in a merry-go-round of championship contentions.  The bigger picture for the Empire 8 is it would keep their automatic Pool A bid, while making it the best conference in eastern region without question.  Am I right that Norwich was due to leave the Empire 8?

Oh I think it is easy to say that cortland could compete with anyone in the E8 in the longrun.  They do seem to have a down year every once in a while but if you look at their history, Corltand has had some pretty good teams regionally.

[Jonny Utah]

-Im also not sure how the SUNY system runs anyway.  Is it Cortland AD or President who would decide wheter or not Cortland would or could join the E8, or would it be up to the SUNY head administration?

This is a great point I had not considered.  Does anyone out there know for sure?  If someone outside of Cortland gets to make this final decision I could see them not wanting any SUNY schoo in the E8 for one of two reasons:

1) More than one SUNY school is interested (Buff State, Brockport, Morrisville, and Cortland) so they won't choose one above the others;

2) They think they can get an auto-bid of the SUNYAC sponsors football so they don't want to lose a member to a private conference.

1) It seems like someone has already decided that Cortland is going to get more money than the other schools already though (new stadium and facilities)

2) I guess they could always leave once there are enough teams to form a suny conference right?

But like we both talked about, I dont know if the school itself makes these decisions.  Im thinking they probably do for the most part seeing that Suny schools have historically joined other conferences for football.

[fisheralum91]

I guess the real question now that Cortland DID say NO, is who is it going to be?
Travel is an issue----and it certainly would be a good thing to get another upstate college- but that doesnt seem like it is going to pan out.
Other thoughts?