FB: Empire 8

[JQV]

How ironic that the Fisher faithful are now deriding Hartwick fans because Hartwick hasn't shown that they have the staying power....

seems like a related discussion was had last year.

[fisheralum91]

hold the phone jose----
im not knocking wick---i was throwing a barb at a few wick faithful.
and i was never one to question the cyclical nature of the game.
you may want to check your notes on that.
i think that i have been one of the more level headed grounded fisher fans- because of the sheer nature of what i saw back in the 80s

[KonArtist33]

Upstate- i agree- there is also the fact that there will be no suprises this year-Wick wont come out of nowhere.

Listen - before you wick guys blow a gasket--you had a hell of a season- i was at the fisher game and you played your hearts out.  I just dont think you have the staying power to keep up with the big boys.  One more good season--pobably--after that who knows.


But before you all start going nuts---it took a LONG time for Fisher to get where they are today--just glad that they got there!!
Way too much time as the door mat!

Well, I will give you my reasons why I think Wick will have another impactful year in the Empire 8.

They return the best QB in D-3. Bottom line, this guy can play anywhere. He is just physically better then anyone in the Empire 8, and unlike an impact running back or receiver, he touches the ball every play (simple because Wick throws the ball every play). They also return an All-American WR, who just had one of the best seasons stats-wise in the history of the NCAA, and was an impact player against both the cupcakes and the big boys. The whole line is returning. There biggest issue on offense if they replace Crea's productivity?
Defensively they lose a few impact players (all-conference linebacker and a big DT) but when you score 35+ points a game, it gives the defense a lot more leeway in amount of points they give up.
As long as Boltus is on the field, I would hate to be the D-Coordinator game-planning against Hartwick.

The reason I thought Ithaca was ranked higher then I believe they should have been is real simple. Their offence revolves around a power running game, which sets up the play action pass. Now they lose the all-time leading rusher in the programs history, which says a lot, as well as the back-up RB and a truly great blocking fullback. Who's the replacement? We don't know. The 3rd string never has a lot of real experience. Plus, they lose 2 players on an offensive line that wasn't up to Ithaca's past standards. What happens if they don't find a replacement for all these positions? Now they do return good receivers, and an AA Tight End. But when was the last time you truly saw a TE win games based on their ability at any level? They get first downs and keep the ball moving, but for the most part none of them are true speed game breakers.

Then they are forced to throw the ball. Now when was the last time Ithaca was successful in spreading it out and air-mail it down the field, without the help of their power running game? I can't remember. My proof of their lack of passing in the recent years has been that they haven't had the ability to comeback from a two score deficit since the old QB was in town.
The bottom line is that Ithaca's offence revolves around there running game, and unless they find replacements for all of these positions, then the pressures going to really be on the QB. Only then will we really find out if can truly carry a team. The kid is truly a great talent, and I wish him the best on a successful season (except when they play Wick of course), but to rate Ithaca as a team in the top 20 is a bit of a stretch when you really break it down.

[fisheralum91]

hey--who knows- i could be eating crow at the end of the season, but a team that suprised IC and Fisher at home barely beats UC and loses to two NEFC teams will have to come a long way to win the E8 this year..I am not spouting about Fisher--they have a lot of holes to fill and numerous question marks, but basing this years outcome on last years success is foolish.

[JQV]

Well, I will give you my reasons why I think Wick will have another impactful year in the Empire 8.

They return the best QB in D-3. Bottom line, this guy can play anywhere. He is just physically better then anyone in the Empire 8, and unlike an impact running back or receiver, he touches the ball every play (simple because Wick throws the ball every play). They also return an All-American WR, who just had one of the best seasons stats-wise in the history of the NCAA, and was an impact player against both the cupcakes and the big boys. The whole line is returning. There biggest issue on offense if they replace Crea's productivity?
Defensively they lose a few impact players (all-conference linebacker and a big DT) but when you score 35+ points a game, it gives the defense a lot more leeway in amount of points they give up.
As long as Boltus is on the field, I would hate to be the D-Coordinator game-planning against Hartwick.

The reason I thought Ithaca was ranked higher then I believe they should have been is real simple. Their offence revolves around a power running game, which sets up the play action pass. Now they lose the all-time leading rusher in the programs history, which says a lot, as well as the back-up RB and a truly great blocking fullback. Who's the replacement? We don't know. The 3rd string never has a lot of real experience. Plus, they lose 2 players on an offensive line that wasn't up to Ithaca's past standards. What happens if they don't find a replacement for all these positions? Now they do return good receivers, and an AA Tight End. But when was the last time you truly saw a TE win games based on their ability at any level? They get first downs and keep the ball moving, but for the most part none of them are true speed game breakers.

Then they are forced to throw the ball. Now when was the last time Ithaca was successful in spreading it out and air-mail it down the field, without the help of their power running game? I can't remember. My proof of their lack of passing in the recent years has been that they haven't had the ability to comeback from a two score deficit since the old QB was in town.
The bottom line is that Ithaca's offence revolves around there running game, and unless they find replacements for all of these positions, then the pressures going to really be on the QB. Only then will we really find out if can truly carry a team. The kid is truly a great talent, and I wish him the best on a successful season (except when they play Wick of course), but to rate Ithaca as a team in the top 20 is a bit of a stretch when you really break it down.

Good post.  +k.

Not going to disagree about Boltus being a great player.  Best in D3 might be a stretch though.

As for IC.  The power running game was a recent trend in the Welch era (the Butterfield teams were primarily option teams and maybe even veer  option teams...JU help me out).  Before Donovan's freshman year IC didn't really have a solid power running attack under Welch.  In fact, Welch's previous teams played something akin to the spread and pitched all over the lot  (Brian Young put it up like 51 times against Cortland in 1999).  Welch's best team (that lost to Rowan in the East Region Final in 2001) split time between two athletic backs (Dave Maddi and Tommy Giorgio) that did as much damage catching the ball out of the backfield as running the ball. 

If I have some time this afternoon I will try and grab the stats from those teams but, generally, IC will get back to what it does this year with a more confident QB and without a power runner like Donovan.  I would guess the starting RB on the prelim depth chart is Thomas Bergerstock who has worked well as the 3rd stringer and came from a good high school program (East Rochester...I think).  Bombers also bring back Justin Kulp who didn't do much last year but scored like 6 or 7 TDs two years ago.

[KonArtist33]

hey--who knows- i could be eating crow at the end of the season, but a team that suprised IC and Fisher at home barely beats UC and loses to two NEFC teams will have to come a long way to win the E8 this year..I am not spouting about Fisher--they have a lot of holes to fill and numerous question marks, but basing this years outcome on last years success is foolish.

Very true. Teams change from year to year. But past history doesn't win games. Whether a team has 30 straight winning seasons, 5 extremely good ones, or has lost just about every game in the last 5 years, it doesn't have any effect on this year's season.
I'll only bring up the impact of last year giving a potentially accurate outlook on the next season in Wick's case is because they return 9 of 11 starters on a great O.

As for last years losses, only because everyone keeps bringing it up, the WNEC loss was a complete embarrassment. Wick got outplayed in every fashion of the game. Flat out butt kicking by a marginal-at-best NEFC team. No way of explaining, and anything that could be said would sound like a poor excuse. But the other two losses weren't as bad as you all make it seem. Alfred was a playoff team if they won their last game of the season and ended up blowing out their bowl game opponent. And Curry finished the season ranked in the top 25.  
Now NEFC or not, you still have to have some talent to finish up there, or maybe the people who vote on this stuff miscast ballots or something (I don't know the process, so I don't want to make any assumptions). And I believe they almost made the pre-season top 25 this year. That's not bad for a team that everybody rags on. Are they at the Fisher-level of play? Clearly not, but still not a bad team. Did they beat Wick pretty bad last year? You bet. Wick clearly wasn't playing its best football at the end of season (notably the D, hence 46 points at the end of regulation against Utica, 30 something to Becker, and 40 something to Curry). But it also doesn't erase two great wins prior against two top 25 ranked playoff teams.

[fisheralum91]

agreed-those wins are program highlights!
the trick is to build upon them.
boltus is a hell of a qb, your offense is very potent, your d however is weak.
you may need boltus to put the team on his back and hopefully score 35+ every saturday to stay in games.
again no knock--it is what it is.
here is to looking forward to the season!

[KonArtist33]

Very true. Either way, it should be fun to watch with all that scoring going on!

[realistic]

OK - a couple points in addition to what was said already.

1)  Best QB in D3?  Come on.  first of all, theres a guy on the front page wearing purple and white that you should read about.  Also - (and I think he's a phenomenal QB) but I don't think Boltus starts for IC, Fisher or Alfred last year.  Regardless of the outcome of a couple of those games.

2)  As for the rankings, one main point that you are missing is IC got a lot better as the season went on last year and into the playoffs (arguably played their best game in their lat one) where 'wick went the other way.  That has a huge impact on people's voting.

3)  Past performance (consectutive winning seasons, etc) doesn't have an effect on rankings (at least not Pat's) but it does effect programs.  As FA91 and some others have pointed out, it allows programs to brings in loads of talent (the whole re-load, not rebuild) IC is there, Fisher is now there, the big programs are.  "wick has not shown anything in the past that would indicate that they are there.

[HHawks]

Not going to disagree about Boltus being a great player.  Best in D3 might be a stretch though.

I believe boltus is the best quarter back in division 3 football. Although he doesnt do it as much anymore, this guy can run just as well as he can throw and thats saying alot. I've seen this guy run over line backers on his was to touchdowns. Lets not forget he was originally recruited to a division 1 program before transferring.

[fisheralum91]

oh boy----real---did you really get sucked into the best in d3 convo?
ouch.
he used the jedi mind trick on ya.

[realistic]

ok - please don't take offense to the beating you are about to take on here.....

You need to get out there and read more about the rest of the country.  The D3FB all american team doesn't have him first or second.  So the very least he could be considered is 3rd best (and he's not that).  How many teams (QBs) have you seen play?

This really isn't a shot at Boltus...he's a great QB.  Be careful throwing BEST in all d3 around.

[realistic]

oh boy----real---did you really get sucked into the best in d3 convo?
ouch.
he used the jedi mind trick on ya.

I know....I know...I know.

I had to respond....and HHawks seems to back up my reasoning.

[fisheralum91]

nooooooooooooooooo---realistic...nooooooooooooo

run away!!!

he has gnarly teeth!

[HHawks]

ok - please don't take offense to the beating you are about to take on here.....

You need to get out there and read more about the rest of the country.  The D3FB all american team doesn't have him first or second.  So the very least he could be considered is 3rd best (and he's not that).  How many teams (QBs) have you seen play?

This really isn't a shot at Boltus...he's a great QB.  Be careful throwing BEST in all d3 around.

OK, fair enough, well he's definately the best in the east. Agree?