FB: Empire 8

[Bombers798891]

No I like being blunt, which is maybe Im wondering if Lycoming focused more on the pass than the run, and like you said, IC fans might be banking too much on last years MUC game.  And in that game, Donovan and Baez did 100% nothing, and Juvan tore apart MUCs defense like I havent seen an IC qb do to any team in the past few years.

And in my 20 years or so of watching bomber football, Id rank Donovan and Baez in the middle of IC running backs.  But what both did have, is contradicting styles that I think helped the IC coaching staff in deciding which back to run against certain teams.  Donovan was not a fast back, but is maybe the 2nd or 3rd smartest runner in the past 20 years, but he cant beat teams by himself like faster running backs could have.

I guess your telling me that IC does not have any good running backs this year?

Im still hoping this game was an opening game jitters situation.  In 1994, we (IC) got destroyed by Springfield at Butterfield.   It wasnt even close.  We couldnt do anything on offense, nothing.  Then we lost at Alfred and had two losses right off the bad and were down.  But by the end of the season, our shizz was together and we were one tackle away from the national championship game......

Have faith bombers and stay positive!
[/quote]

Johnny--

I too have been going to Bomber games for 20 years. I'd rank Donovan ahead of anyone not named Wittman or Parker in terms of RB's. (And really, both Parker and Scott only had a couple of years here, so they don't really count) Donovan was the first guy since then I remember who you'd feel good giving him 35 carries a game. He never seemed to go down where he was hit. And you're right, Baez had the speed. But Donovan was unstoppable in 2004 for that half-season. I maintain that had that team made the NCAA's they would have made a run. In the last 6 games of that season Donovan AVERAGED 28/175! It was a sight to see.

I wouldn't say that they don't have "good" running backs now. I just think they're a step back from the Donovan/Baez combo. Those guys combined for 6,200 yards and 59 TD's in 4 years! There's simply no way to get anywhere near that production from a pair of guys. Juvan had an ace game, but you're right, we were spoiled with Josh Felliceti. I guess I just keep thinking back to 2004-2005, when that team just put up points. They averaged 38 a game those two years, but it dropped to 29 in 2006. It crept back up to 33 last season, but I guess I just don't see this team winning the 59-41, 41-35 shootouts we had with Hartwick and Fisher. I hope I'm wrong, but I just don't see it

Don't even get me started on the W&J game in 1994...it'll just make me mad...Man! I STILL can't believe Jeff Higgins didn't run that punt back for a score! But yeah that 1994 team had no offense. I remember that they were impossible to score on though.

[Bombers798891]

Johnny--

I meant that Donovan was the first guy SINCE Wittman who you'd feel good giving 35 carries to

And the "Ace" game I am referring to with Juvan is the MUC game

[RetiredSaxon]

Tough loss for the saxons, a few fumbles too many, but out of it all, a freshman QB with a lot of talent and Trevor Bork, a great reciever now with AU records on his resume. 

Anxious to see how the boys respond next week.

[saxondeuce]

Yes, tough loss indeed...8 turnovers... .....but keep in mind, the last time AU started with a new QB, they committed 7 turnovers in the first game, which they lost...and ended up 9 and 2... We shall see if these Saxons follow the same trend.

[Jonny Utah]

Johnny--

I meant that Donovan was the first guy SINCE Wittman who you'd feel good giving 35 carries to

And the "Ace" game I am referring to with Juvan is the MUC game

Yea see I only see about 1-3 games a year now and of the 5-7 games I saw donovon in (MUC, SJF 3 times, Union, Norwich, springfield) I wasnt that impressed.  Of course SJF and MUC were the top defenses in probably the country for those years too.  But then I saw other IC running backs have better games against the top teams they played in those given years.

Its usually also tough to base what IC does against competition because 5/10 teams they play every year they should beat by 40 points (in most years).  This can sway stats in both directions.

And although I cant compare a guy like Nate Kmic to Donovon, Kmic is a guy that has 250 yards against the OAC cupcakes, and has 250 yards against the top 5 teams in the country.  Donovan and Baez could dominate the 80% of ICs schedule, but when it came down to the top teams, they were shut down.

EDIT:  To be fair, Donovan may have been the best back for IC in the past 20 years and its just that certain teams (SJF, Union and MUC) decided to focus on stopping that threat.  We can also count on one hand the amount of times IC has made the playoffs in the last 15 years, making it difficult to compare backs who havent faced the best defenses in the country with a guy like donovan who has....

And I totally understand what you meant by the Juvan 'ace' comment.  I thought Juvan was horrible two years ago and wouldnt be able to do the job as a JR and SR.  But after seeing him in 3 games last year, I dont think there was a qb that could have done better.

[Kira & Jaxon's Dad]

Kmic with 154 at the half --

Fisher fyi, he runs the ball often.

Yeah the 11th all time rusher kinda does...

Now the 8th all time rusher:
Kmic crossed the 5,500-yard plateau for career rushing yards and his 5,515 yards places him eighth in NCAA Division III history. Kmic also rushed for two scores giving him 84 career rushing touchdowns, seven shy of the NCAA Division III record 91 by R.J. Bowers of Grove City (PA) College.

From d3football.com

[theoriginalupstate]

Kmic with 154 at the half --

Fisher fyi, he runs the ball often.

Yeah the 11th all time rusher kinda does...

Now the 8th all time rusher:
Kmic crossed the 5,500-yard plateau for career rushing yards and his 5,515 yards places him eighth in NCAA Division III history. Kmic also rushed for two scores giving him 84 career rushing touchdowns, seven shy of the NCAA Division III record 91 by R.J. Bowers of Grove City (PA) College.

From d3football.com

blah...

see you in the playoffs...

[fisheralum91]

upstate- i hope that it works that way!
If they get on a nice roll----winning out the season would be great---but a tall order---could easily be a 7-3 season---dont forget that on top of the e8  we have salisbury to deal with

[AUKaz00]

Yes, tough loss indeed...8 turnovers... .....but keep in mind, the last time AU started with a new QB, they committed 7 turnovers in the first game, which they lost...and ended up 9 and 2... We shall see if these Saxons follow the same trend.

Pep and I were discussing the similarities between yesterday and the Washington and Lee opener of 2005.  Let's hope the season plays out the same way right down to a victory over Fisher in week 11!

[Kira & Jaxon's Dad]

blah...

see you in the playoffs...

OK, Nate is averaging 267 YPG against SJFU, I do hope we meet again.

[fisheralum91]

its sjfc and you dont need to pour salt on it---ya won----

[sjfcards]

The more that I think about the game yesterday for Fisher the better I feel about the season ahead. I really didn't think Fisher had much of a chance to win, but I thought they could keep it closer than it was. So I was disappointed during the 4th quarter yesterday.

The more I think about it, they were able to move the ball on the majority of the time they got the ball, and the defense was able to make a few stops. (althought Kmic and Michelli are both just filthy)

I think a lot of the turnovers and sloppy mistakes will be ironed out in the comming weeks. It was the first game of the season after all. The defense will be very good this year I think, and the offense should be able to move the ball, and score on other defenses.

The scary thing is that Mt. Union was starting a bunch of young players all over the field, and they are only going to get better as well. \
]

[boobyhasgameyo]

blah...

see you in the playoffs...

OK, Nate is averaging 267 YPG against SJFU, I do hope we meet again.

Yeah I don't know about either team making it far enough to meet each other again.  If Fisher took the team we put out there yesterday and faced the Mount Union team of last year or two years ago they would have been destroyed by at least 50 and that's no lie.  This year's Mount Union defense is just flat out not as good as they were, Bailey didn't face a 5th of the pressure Kramer did, unfortunately he just didn't seize the opportunity and made some poor throws and decisions.  Mount Union also has some legitimate concerns with their kicking game.  If Mount Union faces a veteran team in the playoffs with a good QB they are so definitely beatable.  That goes for Fisher even more so as well.  

[tecmobowler]

Surprised a lot of the concern and discussion about IC involved running backs last night.  I think we're going to be just fine at that position.  Bergerstock showed the ability to turn the corner, and seems to have the skill our board friend Runnin Robbie was so adept at, falling forward for those extra yards at the point of tackle.  Glad to see Crandall getting a shot too... first team all state as a senior a couple years back, I've been hoping to see him in action.

Where I would place a great deal of concern is at the WR position.  It's a place the Bombers have had incredible talent year after year for the nine years I've been watching them... pretty darn thin now. Hopefully Vossler pans out.  He may have made the catch of the year yesterday selling out completely over the middle of the field to keep a drive alive.  Connett hasn't shown much in his time with the varsity.  O'Malley was a decent JV player... even Crandall who is out now, has been a pretty one-dimensional run fast and straight type of WR.  I think you may see a shake up at this position next week as Welch didn't sound too thrilled with the routes being run at his halftime interview.

I thought it was a decent performance for Juvan yesterday.  I feel bad for folks at IC who never got a chance to see Felicetti, and are waiting for DJ to be the second coming.. He's got a great arm, can move, but may never be totally comfortable in checking off and finding that third or fourth option.  I thought he showed great touch on a pass to O' Mallley in the end zone (which was dropped) certainly a place of concern in the past.  Still, drives with him at the helm have just croaked in the red zone for three years, and we saw that again yesterday.  We keep waiting for the playbook to be opened up to let him use those legs, but it doesn't seem to be coming.  How strange to run the option with BY (clearly not an option quarterback) and make a pocket passer out of a kid who run the option in high school.

The O-Line will be fine.  The new starting center was yanked at halftime, and the right guard was out hurt.  Both tackles looked strong... a few missed assignments, but they'll be a big strength by year's end.

[tecmobowler]

Finally, we may be back to the defense-first mentality the Bombers had in 1999, 2000, etc... Aside from the one really long run, the defense looked really tough up front.   More penetration than I've seen in the past few years, and the linebackers look fast.  Still some work to be done in the secondary.  They definitely tried to pick on the CB opposite of Cheir throughout the day.  The soft coverage and playing 5 or 6 yards of the line continues to be exploited, but the damage was kept to a minimum yesterday.