FB: Empire 8

[Jonny Utah]

I think anyone accusing dewcrew of being a homer, or anything like that, hasn't been paying much attention to his column or these boards.

And the truth is nobody REALLY knows who the best team is of IC-SJF-HC. They're all incredibly inconsistent. We're not going to know for a couple weeks yet either, so let's sit back and watch the games.

Let's be honest:  dewcrew is a homer as much as I'm a Union guy and RT is an RPI guy and JU is an Ithaca guy at heart.  However, we all try beyond what is necessary to remove the appearance of that bias when we are doing broader jobs that don't focus on those schools specifically (well, JU hasn't impressed me much on that one yet -- he's still Ithaca-centric to the max ).  But my earlier post was a joke about Utica -- if he were writing about Utica in the final week of the season, there'd be an issue there.  However, what else should he have written about last week?  The endless three-way tie in the E8?  That's a bridge to cross later in the season.  In other words, back off Dewcrew -- he's doing a good job removing his appearance of bias.  'nuff said on this one.

Not trying to impress ya.  Just trying to show you (and Pat) why I think Ithaca should have been ranked over Hartwick and maybe SJF.  And Budcrew, the d3football.com pollsters and bombers78234 kind of gave the same reasoning.  No one is right here......well Im usually right so yea....Im right.

In all seriousness I think Ithaca should be ranked above Hartwick right now.

[Yanks 99]

DC...how do you pick/rank your teams each week...I mean, I know it is not an exact science...but I am curious.

I am all for another E8 team being in the top 10...and as a 'Wick fan, I have to hope Alfred beats IC...but not sure why Alfred would jump into the top 10 at #7.  Because they beat your team UC?  Alfred has 5 wins this year against teams with a combined 9-22 record (.290 winning percentage)?  Only FDU-F is .500 at 3-3.  Not really knocking Alfred here...I think they are a very tough team...as was obvious by the great game at the cage a few weeks ago.

Also, why change up the IC, Wick, and SJF rankings?  All 3 buried teams they should have last week. 

Not complaining about the rankings...none of these rankings will have any bearing on the playoff spots...just curious...and this is a really boring night...

It's not really exact at all.... The AU thing.. still in first place in the E8, they haven't been ranked all year until now. They are beating the teams they have to beat, but now the big games: IC and Fisher are still to play... we'll see what happens after that. IC, Wick and Fisher moved a little bit because of the Del Val loss.

EDIT
Re: UC pub
I do a pretty good job being fair when it comes to rankings and columns, I think people here would agree.
They were first in the conference (I know only one game, but Norwich hasn't won a conference game in almost 3 years, so doing it is pretty good). And Blaise is a new coach, so I figured I would talk to him and get his thoughts on the season so far.
Go back through the archive of columns, see how much I give UC vs. any other team.

i dont agree with that at all... IC; SJF; HC all have defeated each other but HC is ranked 3rd out of the three...maybe thats correct...  but not just a coincidence...  Saying AU has beat the teams they are supposed to beat but NOW they have their big games ... SJF and IC... the game against HC wasnt a big game? that they lost by the way....Most people wouldnt notice because they dont care about hartwick but as a wick fan i notice you slighting them constantly... its not a big deal i'm used to it and somewhat understand it but call it what it is if Utica was doing what Hartwick is doing this year/last year i think you would have an article up stating how the pioneers should ranked nationally...

What?!?! You show me where I'm slighting Hartwick. Really. I'm pretty fair with them, they are ranked 3rd in my east region poll, and I've featured Jason Boltus and his accomplishments before.

EDIT: For example http://www.d3football.com/columns/around-the-region/east/2008/New+York+shootout+defies+words

Double EDIT: I probably would have an article if UC was doing what Hartwick was doing... but it's a little different... a relatively new program (compared to the others) playing with the big boys. It would be interesting.

Another example (from 11/13/07):

Yup, Utica did it. With their opponent, Hartwick, needing to beat them to secure the automatic qualifier for the Empire 8, the Pioneers would not go quietly. After ending regulation tied at 49, the most points Utica scored all year, neither team scored in the first overtime, as Utica missed a field goal. Both teams scored in the second overtime, tying the score at 64.

In the third overtime, Hartwick scored on the second play from scrimmage and then made the two-point conversion to go up by eight, 72-64. Utica came back and scored in the possession to come within two, 72-70. On the two-point conversion, Utica false-started on its first play, then Hartwick came up with a defensive stop to win the game and the automatic qualifier.

The two teams set an NCAA record for most combined points in a game, breaking the record by one by Weber State and Portland State, who scored 141 combined earlier this year.

Utica set a record by scoring 70 points in a loss, the record was set by Division II’s Western New Mexico.

Hartwick quarterback Jason Boltus threw for 420 yards and six touchdowns and Utica quarterback Alex Conlon completed 13 passes for 216 touchdowns and four touchdowns.
Hartwick’s Jack Phelan caught 11 passes for 240 yards in the offensive showdown that featured 52 first downs by both teams.

In the nine games previously this season, Utica only scored 129 total, and scored 70 against the Hawks.

BoSox has a point...and you don't have 'Wick ranked third...you have them 5th.  I think that is the slight that BoSox was talking about, and that I was getting at yesterday.  The last two weeks 'Wick was ranked 4th (with IC #5 and SJF #6)...and after all 3 teams beat up on inferior competition, you have it IC#3, SJF #4, and 'Wick #5.  Now, it really doesn't matter because these polls mean nothing towards the NCAA's, but if the roles were reversed, there would be some chirping on these boards.

I am not saying IC shouldn't be ranked ahead of 'Wick.  Same record, with the head to head win.  I see no problem with that...Fisher with 3 losses and a team 'Wick beat head to head is a bit suspicious.

[Yanks 99]

DC...how do you pick/rank your teams each week...I mean, I know it is not an exact science...but I am curious.

I am all for another E8 team being in the top 10...and as a 'Wick fan, I have to hope Alfred beats IC...but not sure why Alfred would jump into the top 10 at #7.  Because they beat your team UC?  Alfred has 5 wins this year against teams with a combined 9-22 record (.290 winning percentage)?  Only FDU-F is .500 at 3-3.  Not really knocking Alfred here...I think they are a very tough team...as was obvious by the great game at the cage a few weeks ago.

Also, why change up the IC, Wick, and SJF rankings?  All 3 buried teams they should have last week. 

Not complaining about the rankings...none of these rankings will have any bearing on the playoff spots...just curious...and this is a really boring night...

It's not really exact at all.... The AU thing.. still in first place in the E8, they haven't been ranked all year until now. They are beating the teams they have to beat, but now the big games: IC and Fisher are still to play... we'll see what happens after that. IC, Wick and Fisher moved a little bit because of the Del Val loss.

EDIT
Re: UC pub
I do a pretty good job being fair when it comes to rankings and columns, I think people here would agree.
They were first in the conference (I know only one game, but Norwich hasn't won a conference game in almost 3 years, so doing it is pretty good). And Blaise is a new coach, so I figured I would talk to him and get his thoughts on the season so far.
Go back through the archive of columns, see how much I give UC vs. any other team.

i dont agree with that at all... IC; SJF; HC all have defeated each other but HC is ranked 3rd out of the three...maybe thats correct...  but not just a coincidence...  Saying AU has beat the teams they are supposed to beat but NOW they have their big games ... SJF and IC... the game against HC wasnt a big game? that they lost by the way....Most people wouldnt notice because they dont care about hartwick but as a wick fan i notice you slighting them constantly... its not a big deal i'm used to it and somewhat understand it but call it what it is if Utica was doing what Hartwick is doing this year/last year i think you would have an article up stating how the pioneers should ranked nationally...

Hartwick gets ranked lower for a few reasons in my own, internal, ranking system.

1) A Hartwick fan talking about SOS is the pot calling the kettle black. Are we supposed to be impressed by your wins over Becker and Western New England? You've got Mt. Ida this week, another great challenge. Schedule someone out of conference that finishes above .500, then whine about schedules
2) Fisher and Alfred aren't exactly the best teams. Neither are ranked in the Top 25. They've got five losses between them, and there's probably 2 more coming.
3) Allowing 69 points to the highest ranked team on your schedule is always a great way to endear yourself to the people making the rankings.
4) Fans who complain about rankings that have no bearing on reality need to just calm down

To answer, in order...

1) I was trying to get some discussion going...it was a slow night.  I have said this a million times, if you are looking for respect on this board, you are an idiot.  You can talk about 'Wick's schedule all you want though, but right now we are the only team to play three teams that are ranked in the top 10 in the East, and are 2-1.

2) If Fisher isn't exactly the "best of teams" then why did they take you guys out behind the woodshed and whip you like you were a speed bump on their schedule? Maybe you should have a little more respect for a team with the toughest schedule in the E8, and one that has pretty much owned you over the last few years.  I wouldn't overlook Alfred either...

3) You scored a lot on us...good job.  Was it worth keeping Juvan in the game that late in the 4th, to the point he was ineffective in the Fisher game?  Whether it is one point, or 28, a win is a win.  Congrats.

4) This is a discussion board...aren't we supposed to generate thoughts, ideas, and questions here?   I don't care for one second if we are the last ranked team in D3...as long as we go to the playoffs.

Are you going to sit on me until I scream uncle if I don't agree with you?  Looks like someone was having a bad day....

[Frank Rossi]

I think anyone accusing dewcrew of being a homer, or anything like that, hasn't been paying much attention to his column or these boards.

And the truth is nobody REALLY knows who the best team is of IC-SJF-HC. They're all incredibly inconsistent. We're not going to know for a couple weeks yet either, so let's sit back and watch the games.

Let's be honest:  dewcrew is a homer as much as I'm a Union guy and RT is an RPI guy and JU is an Ithaca guy at heart.  However, we all try beyond what is necessary to remove the appearance of that bias when we are doing broader jobs that don't focus on those schools specifically (well, JU hasn't impressed me much on that one yet -- he's still Ithaca-centric to the max ).  But my earlier post was a joke about Utica -- if he were writing about Utica in the final week of the season, there'd be an issue there.  However, what else should he have written about last week?  The endless three-way tie in the E8?  That's a bridge to cross later in the season.  In other words, back off Dewcrew -- he's doing a good job removing his appearance of bias.  'nuff said on this one.

Not trying to impress ya.  Just trying to show you (and Pat) why I think Ithaca should have been ranked over Hartwick and maybe SJF.  And Budcrew, the d3football.com pollsters and bombers78234 kind of gave the same reasoning.  No one is right here......well Im usually right so yea....Im right.

In all seriousness I think Ithaca should be ranked above Hartwick right now.

Using only final scores and standings as evidence to support your statement, please describe why your belief is so far superior to anyone else's in this situation of the 3-way tie.

[fishfan]

Top 10 in the east does not mean anything, after you factor in the AQ's and maybe MU again, whats left. Just a rant, why is the World Series first pitch @8:40 when both teams are on the East Coast.

[maxpower]

That is pretty ridiculous. 9:30 in the 3rd... I guess Selig doesn't want people to watch, as usual.

[Jonny Utah]

I think anyone accusing dewcrew of being a homer, or anything like that, hasn't been paying much attention to his column or these boards.

And the truth is nobody REALLY knows who the best team is of IC-SJF-HC. They're all incredibly inconsistent. We're not going to know for a couple weeks yet either, so let's sit back and watch the games.

Let's be honest:  dewcrew is a homer as much as I'm a Union guy and RT is an RPI guy and JU is an Ithaca guy at heart.  However, we all try beyond what is necessary to remove the appearance of that bias when we are doing broader jobs that don't focus on those schools specifically (well, JU hasn't impressed me much on that one yet -- he's still Ithaca-centric to the max ).  But my earlier post was a joke about Utica -- if he were writing about Utica in the final week of the season, there'd be an issue there.  However, what else should he have written about last week?  The endless three-way tie in the E8?  That's a bridge to cross later in the season.  In other words, back off Dewcrew -- he's doing a good job removing his appearance of bias.  'nuff said on this one.

Not trying to impress ya.  Just trying to show you (and Pat) why I think Ithaca should have been ranked over Hartwick and maybe SJF.  And Budcrew, the d3football.com pollsters and bombers78234 kind of gave the same reasoning.  No one is right here......well Im usually right so yea....Im right.

In all seriousness I think Ithaca should be ranked above Hartwick right now.

Using only final scores and standings as evidence to support your statement, please describe why your belief is so far superior to anyone else's in this situation of the 3-way tie.

Frank I'm done playing the Athenian pawn to your Socratic bullying!  Why don't you use some of your dialectic reasoning and explain to me why Ithaca shouldn't be ranked over Hartwick?

[Bombers798891]

DC...how do you pick/rank your teams each week...I mean, I know it is not an exact science...but I am curious.

I am all for another E8 team being in the top 10...and as a 'Wick fan, I have to hope Alfred beats IC...but not sure why Alfred would jump into the top 10 at #7.  Because they beat your team UC?  Alfred has 5 wins this year against teams with a combined 9-22 record (.290 winning percentage)?  Only FDU-F is .500 at 3-3.  Not really knocking Alfred here...I think they are a very tough team...as was obvious by the great game at the cage a few weeks ago.

Also, why change up the IC, Wick, and SJF rankings?  All 3 buried teams they should have last week. 

Not complaining about the rankings...none of these rankings will have any bearing on the playoff spots...just curious...and this is a really boring night...

It's not really exact at all.... The AU thing.. still in first place in the E8, they haven't been ranked all year until now. They are beating the teams they have to beat, but now the big games: IC and Fisher are still to play... we'll see what happens after that. IC, Wick and Fisher moved a little bit because of the Del Val loss.

EDIT
Re: UC pub
I do a pretty good job being fair when it comes to rankings and columns, I think people here would agree.
They were first in the conference (I know only one game, but Norwich hasn't won a conference game in almost 3 years, so doing it is pretty good). And Blaise is a new coach, so I figured I would talk to him and get his thoughts on the season so far.
Go back through the archive of columns, see how much I give UC vs. any other team.

i dont agree with that at all... IC; SJF; HC all have defeated each other but HC is ranked 3rd out of the three...maybe thats correct...  but not just a coincidence...  Saying AU has beat the teams they are supposed to beat but NOW they have their big games ... SJF and IC... the game against HC wasnt a big game? that they lost by the way....Most people wouldnt notice because they dont care about hartwick but as a wick fan i notice you slighting them constantly... its not a big deal i'm used to it and somewhat understand it but call it what it is if Utica was doing what Hartwick is doing this year/last year i think you would have an article up stating how the pioneers should ranked nationally...

Hartwick gets ranked lower for a few reasons in my own, internal, ranking system.

1) A Hartwick fan talking about SOS is the pot calling the kettle black. Are we supposed to be impressed by your wins over Becker and Western New England? You've got Mt. Ida this week, another great challenge. Schedule someone out of conference that finishes above .500, then whine about schedules
2) Fisher and Alfred aren't exactly the best teams. Neither are ranked in the Top 25. They've got five losses between them, and there's probably 2 more coming.
3) Allowing 69 points to the highest ranked team on your schedule is always a great way to endear yourself to the people making the rankings.
4) Fans who complain about rankings that have no bearing on reality need to just calm down

To answer, in order...

1) I was trying to get some discussion going...it was a slow night.  I have said this a million times, if you are looking for respect on this board, you are an idiot.  You can talk about 'Wick's schedule all you want though, but right now we are the only team to play three teams that are ranked in the top 10 in the East, and are 2-1.

2) If Fisher isn't exactly the "best of teams" then why did they take you guys out behind the woodshed and whip you like you were a speed bump on their schedule? Maybe you should have a little more respect for a team with the toughest schedule in the E8, and one that has pretty much owned you over the last few years.  I wouldn't overlook Alfred either...

3) You scored a lot on us...good job.  Was it worth keeping Juvan in the game that late in the 4th, to the point he was ineffective in the Fisher game?  Whether it is one point, or 28, a win is a win.  Congrats.

4) This is a discussion board...aren't we supposed to generate thoughts, ideas, and questions here?   I don't care for one second if we are the last ranked team in D3...as long as we go to the playoffs.

Are you going to sit on me until I scream uncle if I don't agree with you?  Looks like someone was having a bad day....

1) You bring up the central point many others on this board have brought up: It's a three way tie and impossible to rank teams since they've all beaten each other. Yeah, Fisher took us behind the woodshed. And we took you behind the woodshed. And you beat Fisher. Congratulations. We've solved nothing. You've beaten Alfred, but how do we know Alfred's any better than the Lycoming team Ithaca beat? We know they're not as good as MUC and Salisbury. If Alfred loses to SJF and IC, what's the new story then? You've got your opinion on where Hartwick should be ranked. That's fine. But the problem a lot of people on this board are having right now is that people who DON'T rank Hartwick ahead of SJF are being accused of being homers

2) I've got plenty of respect for Fisher. But it's evident that this team is not the same dominant team it used to be, week in and week out. I'm not the fan who thinks his team should be ahead of Fisher in some ranking system. You are. And while you can use the argument "We beat Fisher" till the cows come home, that still doesn't prove anything. If Hartwick has to be ahead of Fisher because they beat them, then Ithaca has to be ahead of Hartwick for the same reason. But that can't happen because then Ithaca would be ahead of a Fisher team that beat them. Fisher's got every right to be ranked ahead of you. They've played three teams in the top 25 currently and beaten one. You've played one and beaten none. But, you've got every right to be ahead of Fisher as well. They've lost three times, and two of their wins--Buff State and Rochester, are weaker than your win over Alfred. The "Best" team of these three is an endless loop of a debate and there's no right or wrong answer. So why are Wick fans the only ones going around accusing people of bias??

3) There's nothing wrong with a discussion. But when people have a different opinion than you, it's best acknowledge that those opinions are valid. My points were simply that

A) Your OOC schedule is weak--which it is

B) You've got one less win than Ithaca and the same number of wins as Fisher.

C) Since Fisher's not in the Top 25, even with that schedule, perhaps they aren't as good as the previous teams that went to the National semifinals--which is also a distinct possibility. I never said they were awful. Simply that they weren't among the "Best" in the country right now

D) We don't know how good Alfred is, since they've yet to play IC and SJF, who, down seasons or not, are better than teams like Springfield, Norwich and Utica, which are the only three conference teams they've actually beaten. That's also true.

E) I'm not in a bad mood at all. My team is about to put the finishing touches on their 38th consecutive winning season this week. I'm happy as a clam

[Yanks 99]

DC...how do you pick/rank your teams each week...I mean, I know it is not an exact science...but I am curious.

I am all for another E8 team being in the top 10...and as a 'Wick fan, I have to hope Alfred beats IC...but not sure why Alfred would jump into the top 10 at #7.  Because they beat your team UC?  Alfred has 5 wins this year against teams with a combined 9-22 record (.290 winning percentage)?  Only FDU-F is .500 at 3-3.  Not really knocking Alfred here...I think they are a very tough team...as was obvious by the great game at the cage a few weeks ago.

Also, why change up the IC, Wick, and SJF rankings?  All 3 buried teams they should have last week. 

Not complaining about the rankings...none of these rankings will have any bearing on the playoff spots...just curious...and this is a really boring night...

It's not really exact at all.... The AU thing.. still in first place in the E8, they haven't been ranked all year until now. They are beating the teams they have to beat, but now the big games: IC and Fisher are still to play... we'll see what happens after that. IC, Wick and Fisher moved a little bit because of the Del Val loss.

EDIT
Re: UC pub
I do a pretty good job being fair when it comes to rankings and columns, I think people here would agree.
They were first in the conference (I know only one game, but Norwich hasn't won a conference game in almost 3 years, so doing it is pretty good). And Blaise is a new coach, so I figured I would talk to him and get his thoughts on the season so far.
Go back through the archive of columns, see how much I give UC vs. any other team.

i dont agree with that at all... IC; SJF; HC all have defeated each other but HC is ranked 3rd out of the three...maybe thats correct...  but not just a coincidence...  Saying AU has beat the teams they are supposed to beat but NOW they have their big games ... SJF and IC... the game against HC wasnt a big game? that they lost by the way....Most people wouldnt notice because they dont care about hartwick but as a wick fan i notice you slighting them constantly... its not a big deal i'm used to it and somewhat understand it but call it what it is if Utica was doing what Hartwick is doing this year/last year i think you would have an article up stating how the pioneers should ranked nationally...

Hartwick gets ranked lower for a few reasons in my own, internal, ranking system.

1) A Hartwick fan talking about SOS is the pot calling the kettle black. Are we supposed to be impressed by your wins over Becker and Western New England? You've got Mt. Ida this week, another great challenge. Schedule someone out of conference that finishes above .500, then whine about schedules
2) Fisher and Alfred aren't exactly the best teams. Neither are ranked in the Top 25. They've got five losses between them, and there's probably 2 more coming.
3) Allowing 69 points to the highest ranked team on your schedule is always a great way to endear yourself to the people making the rankings.
4) Fans who complain about rankings that have no bearing on reality need to just calm down

To answer, in order...

1) I was trying to get some discussion going...it was a slow night.  I have said this a million times, if you are looking for respect on this board, you are an idiot.  You can talk about 'Wick's schedule all you want though, but right now we are the only team to play three teams that are ranked in the top 10 in the East, and are 2-1.

2) If Fisher isn't exactly the "best of teams" then why did they take you guys out behind the woodshed and whip you like you were a speed bump on their schedule? Maybe you should have a little more respect for a team with the toughest schedule in the E8, and one that has pretty much owned you over the last few years.  I wouldn't overlook Alfred either...

3) You scored a lot on us...good job.  Was it worth keeping Juvan in the game that late in the 4th, to the point he was ineffective in the Fisher game?  Whether it is one point, or 28, a win is a win.  Congrats.

4) This is a discussion board...aren't we supposed to generate thoughts, ideas, and questions here?   I don't care for one second if we are the last ranked team in D3...as long as we go to the playoffs.

Are you going to sit on me until I scream uncle if I don't agree with you?  Looks like someone was having a bad day....

1) You bring up the central point many others on this board have brought up: It's a three way tie and impossible to rank teams since they've all beaten each other. Yeah, Fisher took us behind the woodshed. And we took you behind the woodshed. And you beat Fisher. Congratulations. We've solved nothing. You've beaten Alfred, but how do we know Alfred's any better than the Lycoming team Ithaca beat? We know they're not as good as MUC and Salisbury. If Alfred loses to SJF and IC, what's the new story then? You've got your opinion on where Hartwick should be ranked. That's fine. But the problem a lot of people on this board are having right now is that people who DON'T rank Hartwick ahead of SJF are being accused of being homers

2) I've got plenty of respect for Fisher. But it's evident that this team is not the same dominant team it used to be, week in and week out. I'm not the fan who thinks his team should be ahead of Fisher in some ranking system. You are. And while you can use the argument "We beat Fisher" till the cows come home, that still doesn't prove anything. If Hartwick has to be ahead of Fisher because they beat them, then Ithaca has to be ahead of Hartwick for the same reason. But that can't happen because then Ithaca would be ahead of a Fisher team that beat them. Fisher's got every right to be ranked ahead of you. They've played three teams in the top 25 currently and beaten one. You've played one and beaten none. But, you've got every right to be ahead of Fisher as well. They've lost three times, and two of their wins--Buff State and Rochester, are weaker than your win over Alfred. The "Best" team of these three is an endless loop of a debate and there's no right or wrong answer. So why are Wick fans the only ones going around accusing people of bias??

3) There's nothing wrong with a discussion. But when people have a different opinion than you, it's best acknowledge that those opinions are valid. My points were simply that

A) Your OOC schedule is weak--which it is

B) You've got one less win than Ithaca and the same number of wins as Fisher.

C) Since Fisher's not in the Top 25, even with that schedule, perhaps they aren't as good as the previous teams that went to the National semifinals--which is also a distinct possibility. I never said they were awful. Simply that they weren't among the "Best" in the country right now

D) We don't know how good Alfred is, since they've yet to play IC and SJF, who, down seasons or not, are better than teams like Springfield, Norwich and Utica, which are the only three conference teams they've actually beaten. That's also true.

E) I'm not in a bad mood at all. My team is about to put the finishing touches on their 38th consecutive winning season this week. I'm happy as a clam

You cannot guarantee that Alfred is not better then Salisbury...that is too be determined.  What happens if Alfred beats both IC and Fisher?  Unlikely, but certainly not impossible.

I wasn't questioning everyone who ranks Fisher ahead of Alfred...just Dew Crew in this case.  We were ranked ahead of them two weeks ago when we beat Alfred and Fisher lost to Salisbury...we were ranked ahead of them as we crushed Becker and Fisher crushed Norwich...and now we aren't.  If the roles were reveresed AND we had lost to Fisher, the Fisher fans would be all over Dew Crew...and rightfully so.  Just curious why he would change it up?

"And while you can use the argument "We beat Fisher" till the cows come home, that still doesn't prove anything."  Actually man...when you beat a team two years in a row...its proves everything.  My arguement, and this is in the spirit of this board, is that they have three loses (I can even throw out the MUC loss)...and the rest of the E8 bunch at the top doesn't.  It's worth a discussion...

Be careful patting yourself on the back over your out of league strength of schedule.  It may be tougher then ours this year...especially because Cortland is so strong...but lets face it...did IC really think they were scheduling powerhouses when Lycoming (3-7), Kings (1-9), and Frostburg (2-7) all finishing way below .500 last year?  Take away Cortland, and IC's schedule isn't that impressive either.  All of this is pointless though, as you have Cortland on the schedule.

I am not going to lie...I like where 'Wick sits right now.  It is not perfect, but it could be worse.  If IC loses to Alfred and we win out...we are in.  If the top 3 all win out, and as long as Fisher doesn't get the AQ (and it looks like IC would get the AQ)...I like our chances for a Pool C.  Certainly there would be no way for Fisher to get the Pool C over 'Wick in this scenario...and I like the E8's chances of getting two in the NCAA's.

[dlippiel]

I just think Wick stands for complete consistency and should never be doubted or slighted in the least. Losing to WNEC, giving up 70 to Utica (07), 69 to IC (08) and a solid victory over WNEC, to go along with an outstanding OOC schedule I cannot see how anyone would question them period. Oh yeah I forgot the solid showing in the NCAAs last season against Curry. Curry by the way is ranked in the top 25 in the AFCA poll (which I find funny). In actuality aside from my sarcastic banter I love seeing Boltus and Phelan doing so well. I just get annoyed when people think they have done anything worth recieving serious East respect. When they become consistent and don't lose to NEFC teams for longer than a year or two things will change. By the way dewcrew does a solid job of being objective and writing creative ATE articles week in and week out. Sorry K-Mack you rock to but I live for ATE even over ATN (maybe I just said that because you are passing on the shoes game). Just kidding, both you guys are solid.

[maxpower]

I think anyone accusing dewcrew of being a homer, or anything like that, hasn't been paying much attention to his column or these boards.

And the truth is nobody REALLY knows who the best team is of IC-SJF-HC. They're all incredibly inconsistent. We're not going to know for a couple weeks yet either, so let's sit back and watch the games.

Let's be honest:  dewcrew is a homer as much as I'm a Union guy and RT is an RPI guy and JU is an Ithaca guy at heart.  However, we all try beyond what is necessary to remove the appearance of that bias when we are doing broader jobs that don't focus on those schools specifically (well, JU hasn't impressed me much on that one yet -- he's still Ithaca-centric to the max ).  But my earlier post was a joke about Utica -- if he were writing about Utica in the final week of the season, there'd be an issue there.  However, what else should he have written about last week?  The endless three-way tie in the E8?  That's a bridge to cross later in the season.  In other words, back off Dewcrew -- he's doing a good job removing his appearance of bias.  'nuff said on this one.

Not trying to impress ya.  Just trying to show you (and Pat) why I think Ithaca should have been ranked over Hartwick and maybe SJF.  And Budcrew, the d3football.com pollsters and bombers78234 kind of gave the same reasoning.  No one is right here......well Im usually right so yea....Im right.

In all seriousness I think Ithaca should be ranked above Hartwick right now.

Using only final scores and standings as evidence to support your statement, please describe why your belief is so far superior to anyone else's in this situation of the 3-way tie.

Frank I'm done playing the Athenian pawn to your Socratic bullying!  Why don't you use some of your dialectic reasoning and explain to me why Ithaca shouldn't be ranked over Hartwick?

+k on the ref.

[Yanks 99]

I just think Wick stands for complete consistency and should never be doubted or slighted in the least. Losing to WNEC, giving up 70 to Utica (07), 69 to IC (08) and a solid victory over WNEC, to go along with an outstanding OOC schedule I cannot see how anyone would question them period. Oh yeah I forgot the solid showing in the NCAAs last season against Curry. Curry by the way is ranked in the top 25 in the AFCA poll (which I find funny). In actuality aside from my sarcastic banter I love seeing Boltus and Phelan doing so well. I just get annoyed when people think they have done anything worth recieving serious East respect. When they become consistent and don't lose to NEFC teams for longer than a year or two things will change. By the way dewcrew does a solid job of being objective and writing creative ATE articles week in and week out. Sorry K-Mack you rock to but I live for ATE even over ATN (maybe I just said that because you are passing on the shoes game). Just kidding, both you guys are solid.

Never said that 'Wick was the best in the east...

Not sure though...but by "anything worth receiving serious East respect" you mean maybe beating Fisher twice...something that no one has done since the beginning of the seaon in 2004 until now...oh yeah...except for Mount Union.

I don't hate DC...and I have already stated I enjoy his columns each week.  We may disagree on things...but I think that is part of the 'Wick-UC rivalry.  

[Jonny Utah]

I think anyone accusing dewcrew of being a homer, or anything like that, hasn't been paying much attention to his column or these boards.

And the truth is nobody REALLY knows who the best team is of IC-SJF-HC. They're all incredibly inconsistent. We're not going to know for a couple weeks yet either, so let's sit back and watch the games.

Let's be honest:  dewcrew is a homer as much as I'm a Union guy and RT is an RPI guy and JU is an Ithaca guy at heart.  However, we all try beyond what is necessary to remove the appearance of that bias when we are doing broader jobs that don't focus on those schools specifically (well, JU hasn't impressed me much on that one yet -- he's still Ithaca-centric to the max ).  But my earlier post was a joke about Utica -- if he were writing about Utica in the final week of the season, there'd be an issue there.  However, what else should he have written about last week?  The endless three-way tie in the E8?  That's a bridge to cross later in the season.  In other words, back off Dewcrew -- he's doing a good job removing his appearance of bias.  'nuff said on this one.

Not trying to impress ya.  Just trying to show you (and Pat) why I think Ithaca should have been ranked over Hartwick and maybe SJF.  And Budcrew, the d3football.com pollsters and bombers78234 kind of gave the same reasoning.  No one is right here......well Im usually right so yea....Im right.

In all seriousness I think Ithaca should be ranked above Hartwick right now.

Using only final scores and standings as evidence to support your statement, please describe why your belief is so far superior to anyone else's in this situation of the 3-way tie.

Frank I'm done playing the Athenian pawn to your Socratic bullying!  Why don't you use some of your dialectic reasoning and explain to me why Ithaca shouldn't be ranked over Hartwick?

+k on the ref.

Well to continue on this topic, I think Frank likes to look at which team might be better than another ab initio where I would take more of a empirical or semi-empirical look at which team may be better.  I think truth is being taken for granted here, and if there were to be some sort of logical axioum that we could construct, I think we would find that Ithaca may be the best team in the east right now.

We just need someone smart enough to explain in this form. I know I can't!

[dlippiel]

I just think Wick stands for complete consistency and should never be doubted or slighted in the least. Losing to WNEC, giving up 70 to Utica (07), 69 to IC (08) and a solid victory over WNEC, to go along with an outstanding OOC schedule I cannot see how anyone would question them period. Oh yeah I forgot the solid showing in the NCAAs last season against Curry. Curry by the way is ranked in the top 25 in the AFCA poll (which I find funny). In actuality aside from my sarcastic banter I love seeing Boltus and Phelan doing so well. I just get annoyed when people think they have done anything worth recieving serious East respect. When they become consistent and don't lose to NEFC teams for longer than a year or two things will change. By the way dewcrew does a solid job of being objective and writing creative ATE articles week in and week out. Sorry K-Mack you rock to but I live for ATE even over ATN (maybe I just said that because you are passing on the shoes game). Just kidding, both you guys are solid.

Never said that 'Wick was the best in the east...

Not sure though...but by "anything worth receiving serious East respect" you mean maybe beating Fisher twice...something that no one has done since the beginning of the seaon in 2004 until now...oh yeah...except for Mount Union.

I don't hate DC...and I have already stated I enjoy his columns each week.  We may disagree on things...but I think that is part of the 'Wick-UC rivalry.  

Beat Fisher twice yes and I think that is a good acomplishment but then to lose to Curry and WNEC is simply inexcusable. To be taken serious on a consistent basis and to recieve respect from any pollsters you must not lose to NEFC teams twice in one year and then wonder why in the following year your team (even with two strong victories) is not getting enough respect. Plus I never said you said Wick was the best in the east. If anyone were to say that I would simply say no they are not. Please play someone, anyone besides Becker and WNEC, beat them and then we will see.

[Yanks 99]

I just think Wick stands for complete consistency and should never be doubted or slighted in the least. Losing to WNEC, giving up 70 to Utica (07), 69 to IC (08) and a solid victory over WNEC, to go along with an outstanding OOC schedule I cannot see how anyone would question them period. Oh yeah I forgot the solid showing in the NCAAs last season against Curry. Curry by the way is ranked in the top 25 in the AFCA poll (which I find funny). In actuality aside from my sarcastic banter I love seeing Boltus and Phelan doing so well. I just get annoyed when people think they have done anything worth recieving serious East respect. When they become consistent and don't lose to NEFC teams for longer than a year or two things will change. By the way dewcrew does a solid job of being objective and writing creative ATE articles week in and week out. Sorry K-Mack you rock to but I live for ATE even over ATN (maybe I just said that because you are passing on the shoes game). Just kidding, both you guys are solid.

Never said that 'Wick was the best in the east...

Not sure though...but by "anything worth receiving serious East respect" you mean maybe beating Fisher twice...something that no one has done since the beginning of the seaon in 2004 until now...oh yeah...except for Mount Union.

I don't hate DC...and I have already stated I enjoy his columns each week.  We may disagree on things...but I think that is part of the 'Wick-UC rivalry.  

Beat Fisher twice yes and I think that is a good acomplishment but then to lose to Curry and WNEC is simply inexcusable. To be taken serious on a consistent basis and to recieve respect from any pollsters you must not lose to NEFC teams twice in one year and then wonder why in the following year your team (even with two strong victories) is not getting enough respect. Plus I never said you said Wick was the best in the east. If anyone were to say that I would simply say no they are not. Please play someone, anyone besides Becker and WNEC, beat them and then we will see.

Not looking for respect from the pollsters...asking how DC was ranking things different this week.  Even he thought he had 'Wick ranked 3rd...when they are 5th...which is still great.

Pollsters aren't supposed to vote on how the team did over the last few years...they are voting on this year only.  That may not be a reality...but that is the way it is supposed to be.