FB: Empire 8

[dlippiel]

Hopefully the NEFC can get more coherent posters that will actually cross over and discuss in other boards.  Then I think we'd have a more level conversation. 

I think it would be interesting to hear what many have to say. I am sure the NEFC has some very dedicated great fans who are very knowledgeable about their respective teams. Probably more knowledgeable than myself.

[Jonny Utah]

Hopefully SJF learns from the scheduling blunder this year.  Looking at the regional rankings, a tough OOC schedule obviously did not help SJF.  Like someone just mentioned, we should have kept the Brockport's and Mt. Ida's on our schedule.

You're a moron - those kind of teams do nothing for the program.

True Fisher fans want our program to be the best, by playing the best - If you want us to play the Mt. Idas  and pad a record then go support the likes of Curry. . .

Mount Union doesn't play the best.  Look at the cupcake non-conference games they had this year.

Zing!

[Jonny Utah]

It makes more sense for Fisher to join the LL, than to find a team to replace Norwich. E8 has known this for two years, but no one wants to join the E6. If the OOC does not mean anything, than why not schedule cream-puffs. The bottom line goal is to make the NCAA's, not an ECAC bowl. Both CB's are 3rd year varsity players, neither is young or inexperienced, the ONLY problem I have with this edition has been the play from the QB. It's the turnovers, and to date this has not been fixed.

SJF isn't leaving the E8, and Im not so sure the LL would even take SJF over Ithaca or Alfred since both of those teams would probably get dibs over SJF. 

[pg04]

Hopefully SJF learns from the scheduling blunder this year.  Looking at the regional rankings, a tough OOC schedule obviously did not help SJF.  Like someone just mentioned, we should have kept the Brockport's and Mt. Ida's on our schedule.

You're a moron - those kind of teams do nothing for the program.

True Fisher fans want our program to be the best, by playing the best - If you want us to play the Mt. Idas  and pad a record then go support the likes of Curry. . .

Mount Union doesn't play the best.  Look at the cupcake non-conference games they had this year.

Zing!

Non-Conference Game (Singular)

[Yanks 99]

Hopefully SJF learns from the scheduling blunder this year.  Looking at the regional rankings, a tough OOC schedule obviously did not help SJF.  Like someone just mentioned, we should have kept the Brockport's and Mt. Ida's on our schedule.

You're a moron - those kind of teams do nothing for the program.

True Fisher fans want our program to be the best, by playing the best - If you want us to play the Mt. Idas  and pad a record then go support the likes of Curry. . .

Mount Union doesn't play the best.  Look at the cupcake non-conference games they had this year.

Zing!

Hahaha...not bad JU...

[Lyco80]

In the interest of cross pollination:

The shake-up in conferences the last few years, to include the MAC, have been more about marketing and less about athletics.

When I was a member of the Alumni Board at Lycoming there were rumors swirling about a potential leap to the E8 conference but they were quickly squashed since New York state has an ever-shrinking potential pool of students.

Bottom line - colleges are like businesses and very much wish to stay afloat.  If the administration and trustees are not thinking about where they get their primary student base from they will soon be defunct.

As a fan and alumnus I think the E8 is not a bad fit for Lycoming.  But as a realist who understands population demographics it is increasingly apparent that the Northeast and New England will continue to lose population as more people move south into the Mid-Atlantic region of the Eastern Seaboard.

Pity - but those are the facts against which all conference shifts must be viewed.

By the way, how is the Upsala football program doing these days?

ATB

[boobyhasgameyo]

It makes more sense for Fisher to join the LL, than to find a team to replace Norwich. E8 has known this for two years, but no one wants to join the E6. If the OOC does not mean anything, than why not schedule cream-puffs. The bottom line goal is to make the NCAA's, not an ECAC bowl. Both CB's are 3rd year varsity players, neither is young or inexperienced, the ONLY problem I have with this edition has been the play from the QB. It's the turnovers, and to date this has not been fixed.

SJF isn't leaving the E8, and Im not so sure the LL would even take SJF over Ithaca or Alfred since both of those teams would probably get dibs over SJF. 

Since I assume you are referencing academic standards I don't really think they would mind adding Fisher as a football only member.  By the way, not incredibly difficult to get into Ithaca or Alfred.

Ithaca and Alfred both accept about 74% of applicants, Fisher is running at accepting 61%.  Average SAT scores (old scoring) if you take the high end of the range is 1180 for Fisher, for Ithaca it is 1260, Alfred is 1230.  These are far cries from LL school's such as U of R and RPI who have SAT averages of about 1420 and accept about 40% of applicants.

Now if you meant something other than academics as the reason Ithaca or Alfred would get the nod (i.e. more storied football programs, etc.) then I guess I can see that...But none of the E8 schools are really in the same league as the LL academically, as much as Ithaca wants to be.  


Oh and I know Alfred has a really good ceramics program Pep, and I know Ithaca and its storied Communications history....I'm just saying in terms of actually getting into the school, the differences are minimal.  After graduating from these schools...Well that's a whole other story and I will definitely concede that Fisher is lacking in that department compared to an Ithaca.  


*Edit -------- I used College Search for my lone unverified source. 


Again if you didn't mean academics then my apologies, that is just how I interpreted it. 

[Jonny Utah]

It makes more sense for Fisher to join the LL, than to find a team to replace Norwich. E8 has known this for two years, but no one wants to join the E6. If the OOC does not mean anything, than why not schedule cream-puffs. The bottom line goal is to make the NCAA's, not an ECAC bowl. Both CB's are 3rd year varsity players, neither is young or inexperienced, the ONLY problem I have with this edition has been the play from the QB. It's the turnovers, and to date this has not been fixed.

SJF isn't leaving the E8, and Im not so sure the LL would even take SJF over Ithaca or Alfred since both of those teams would probably get dibs over SJF. 

Since I assume you are referencing academic standards I don't really think they would mind adding Fisher as a football only member.  By the way, not incredibly difficult to get into Ithaca or Alfred.

Ithaca and Alfred both accept about 74% of applicants, Fisher is running at accepting 61%.  Average SAT scores (old scoring) if you take the high end of the range is 1180 for Fisher, for Ithaca it is 1260, Alfred is 1230.  These are far cries from LL school's such as U of R and RPI who have SAT averages of about 1420 and accept about 40% of applicants.

Now if you meant something other than academics as the reason Ithaca or Alfred would get the nod (i.e. more storied football programs, etc.) then I guess I can see that...But none of the E8 schools are really in the same league as the LL academically, as much as Ithaca wants to be.  


Oh and I know Alfred has a really good ceramics program Pep, and I know Ithaca and its storied Communications history....I'm just saying in terms of actually getting into the school, the differences are minimal.  After graduating from these schools...Well that's a whole other story and I will definitely concede that Fisher is lacking in that department compared to an Ithaca.  


*Edit -------- I used College Search for my lone unverified source. 


Again if you didn't mean academics then my apologies, that is just how I interpreted it. 

No I meant more in terms of the old leagues that RPI, Ithaca and Aflred used to be in together (the name escapes me) for other sports.

[boobyhasgameyo]

ahhh, got it.  that was in the pre-booby era (which will be referenced to in the future as PB).  The baseline year will be 1984.  So if they were in a league together in 1980, well obviously that was also the year 4PB. 

[Jonny Utah]

ahhh, got it.  that was in the pre-booby era (which will be referenced to in the future as PB).  The baseline year will be 1984.  So if they were in a league together in 1980, well obviously that was also the year 4PB. 

No the academics are all pretty similar in the E8 for the most part.  Although the acceptance rates need to be put in perspective.

USNEWS rankings 2009 (Northern Masters Universities) for d3football east schools.

6- College of New Jersey
7- Ithaca College
17- Alfred
28- Rowan
35- Kings
35- Salisbury
35- Salve Regina
40- Gannon
40- Montclair St.
40- St. John Fisher
46- Springfield
52- Umass Dartmouth
69- Norwich
73- Cortland
73- Wilkes
77- WNEC
81- Brockport

There are a few unranked schools and most of the LL schools are either ranked under the national liberal arts schools (Union and Hobart), or national universities (RPI, Rochester)

[Bombers798891]

So, it's looking like, barring any upsets, IC-Alfred may decide the mess that is the E8. So who's got the scoop on Alfred? How do they look? I'm debating the trip up there with the pops, and, well, I've already been to one disappointing road game this season. I'd rather not repeat the experience. Anyone seen both teams and have a prediction?

[Yanks 99]

So, it's looking like, barring any upsets, IC-Alfred may decide the mess that is the E8. So who's got the scoop on Alfred? How do they look? I'm debating the trip up there with the pops, and, well, I've already been to one disappointing road game this season. I'd rather not repeat the experience. Anyone seen both teams and have a prediction?

It looks like it could...though there are still a lot of E8 games left for everyone, so you never know.  Alfred from what I hear is very balanced on offense...the rookie QB is getting better every game...and that their defense is very strong.  They held 'Wick to their lowest offensive scoring game so far this year.  Depending on weather, I would definately go to the game.  I actually like the atmosphere at Alfred...they will still be playing for the E8 title at that point and will probably be 6-2 overall.  I have to head down to Pittsburgh the following weekend...if not, I would definately be at that game (Wick would be way out in Springfield).

[SJFF82]

bombers79-
what i thnk is missed in the overall scheme here is that a talented but young and inexperienced fisher teams lost to MUC by less than anybody else this season----lost to salisbury IN FOUR OVERTIMES- should have beaten wick if not for a last second fumble AND WAXED ITHACA.  Now i agree that this team has a year or so to tie everything together- but this season is far from a collapse.
2 flips of the coin and we could be talking about fisher making a run deep in the playoffs.
Did is mention that they pasted IC?
oh yeah i did.

Fisher--

Like I said, I understand that, but doesn't every team have a couple "Coin flip" games? In 2004, IC missed the playoffs with an OT loss to you guys and a 1-point loss to Brockport. Couldn't we use that argument for IC that season? Two coin flips and we're 10-0 and possibly a #1 seed? Yes, you could have beaten Hartwick and Salisbury. But you didn't. It;s not that I don't understand extenuating circumstances, but, lines have to be drawn somewhere. If an 0-10 played the Top 10 teams in the country and lost them all by 2 points, we wouldn

I don't have any qualms with the MUC game...and yes, you pasted us. But as I pointed out, according to the voters of both poles, your four toughest opponents were MUC, Salisbury, Us and Wick. And you didn't perform well against them. No-one's debating your strength relative to IC. But there were other "good" teams on your schedule. And you didn't beat anyonr else. The Salisbury game was in four overtimes only because you guys couldn't hold a 14-point, fourth quarter lead, at home.

You've got the Ithaca win. And right now, your other four victories came against teams who were a combined 6-22. As I said, you're a good team. But you have one solid victory. That's not enough to offset three losses in my mind.

And yes, before we go there, Ithaca hasn't had a ton of good victories either. And, if they don't win the AQ, it certainly doesn't look like they'd get in, unless they upset Cortland, and even then they likely wouldn't get in. But right now, based on my understanding of the tie-breaks, all IC needs to do is win these next two and they get the AQ, unless Hartwick drops one.

Right now, your argument is that you've beaten one good team, four cruddy teams, and could've, should've, would've won two more? I've always believed that the difference between a 9-1 team and a 7-3 team can boil down to something like two plays over the course of a season. The difference is, the 9-1 team makes them, but the 7-3 team doesn't. And to me, it's the ability to make plays when they need to that seperates the good who just miss out from the great who make it. It's those "coin flip" games, you know? They make or break your season.

It's not so much the wins themselves. It's that the great teams, when they find themselves in a dogfight, come up with a way to pull it off more often then not. You guys are a couple of fumbles away from being 7-1. But to me, a great team would have held onto that lead agains Salisbury. A great team would have finished that drive against the Wick.

I'm not considering myself to be the authority. Certainly, some people will believe you guys deserve a Pool C bid. And it's not that I don't see their logic. I just happen to feel differently. This is what happens when you drop games and don't win the conference. You're stuck trying to appease voters. It;s a cruddy deal, but that's what happens. People at IC were pissed about the 2004 team, but all you do is say "If it matters that much, they should have beaten Fisher." Even the imfamous 1998 squad lost a winnable game to a playoff bound Buff State team. It's an unfair system sometimes, and the only surefire way to beat it is to win the AQ...

that about sums it up....good post

[Findtheball]

                            game day

[Saxon73]

It makes more sense for Fisher to join the LL, than to find a team to replace Norwich. E8 has known this for two years, but no one wants to join the E6. If the OOC does not mean anything, than why not schedule cream-puffs. The bottom line goal is to make the NCAA's, not an ECAC bowl. Both CB's are 3rd year varsity

players, neither is young or inexperienced, the ONLY problem I have with this edition has been the play from the QB. It's the turnovers, and to date this has not been fixed.

SJF isn't leaving the E8, and Im not so sure the LL would even take SJF over Ithaca or Alfred since both of those teams would probably get dibs over SJF. 

Since I assume you are referencing academic standards I don't really think they would mind adding Fisher as a football only member.  By the way, not incredibly difficult to get into Ithaca or Alfred.

Ithaca and Alfred both accept about 74% of applicants, Fisher is running at accepting 61%.  Average SAT scores (old scoring) if you take the high end of the range is 1180 for Fisher, for Ithaca it is 1260, Alfred is 1230.  These are far cries from LL school's such as U of R and RPI who have SAT averages of about 1420 and accept about 40% of applicants.

Now if you meant something other than academics as the reason Ithaca or Alfred would get the nod (i.e. more storied football programs, etc.) then I guess I can see that...But none of the E8 schools are really in the same league as the LL academically, as much as Ithaca wants to be.  


Oh and I know Alfred has a really good ceramics program Pep, and I know Ithaca and its storied Communications history....I'm just saying in terms of actually getting into the school, the differences are minimal.  After graduating from these schools...Well that's a whole other story and I will definitely concede that Fisher is lacking in that department compared to an Ithaca.  


*Edit -------- I used College Search for my lone unverified source. 


Again if you didn't mean academics then my apologies, that is just how I interpreted it. 

No I meant more in terms of the old leagues that RPI, Ithaca and Aflred used to be in together (the name escapes me) for other sports.

Jonny,    If anyone else wants to know I can take you back to the early 70's when I was All Conference in x-country. The conference was called the ICAC - Independent College Athletic Conference.  It included Alfred, Clarkson,Hobart, RPI, St Lawrence and Union.  I am sure Ithaca was not involved in this conference. 

1971 was the year Alfred was undefeated in football, won the Lambert Bowl Award and got shafted out of the "Bowl" game as Hampton Sydney went to that game - whatever the set up was for d3 football at that time.