FB: Empire 8

[JQV]

I think the excuses, etc of the last few weeks have pushed Fisher up there with 'wick, etc.  Also - I don't think too many people whine after Cortaca....everyone knows thats a game that anything can happen and often does.

I agree.  Who whines after Cortaca?

P.S. Realistic channeling Will Weiss with his Cortaca analysis.  Up next on the pre-game show "Throwing the Records out in Rivalry Games"

[Bombers798891]

Jose, I actually forget the answer. It will probably come to me when I am nowhere near a computer. It's not Jess Welch though.

Brooke Andrews?

whiniest----
hmm
i always thought that was cornered by the ic faithful after a cortaca loss.
or perhaps hartwick fans asking for respect.


hell- the only fans that i respect on a hole (beside fisher fans) are au fans.

I think the excuses, etc of the last few weeks have pushed Fisher up there with 'wick, etc.  Also - I don't think too many people whine after Cortaca....everyone knows thats a game that anything can happen and often does.

I've always hated that logic Bomber fans bring to Cortaca..."Throw out the records"...the reason we don't want people to know the records is simple...That way, when Bomber teams that have no business losing to Cortland do so, it's an excuse to use, rather than admitting the team underachieved and blew it.

For Example:

1996: A 6-1 IC team--whose only loss was to a D-II AIC, goes to a Cortland team that would end up 6-4 and lose by 28.
1999: 7-1 Bombers face a 4-4 Cortland team in Ithaca, lead 21-7 at the half, lose 26-21
2003: #14 8-1 Bombers face an unranked 4-4 Cortland team at home, lose 16-15
2005: #13 Ithaca faces an "also recieving votes" Cortland at home with a chance to secure a home NCAA playoff game, play a godawful first half, lose in OT

Those are four instances in which a clearly superior IC team lost to a Cortland team that was mediocre.  By contrast, almost all of the recent IC wins have been when IC had a clearly better team:

1998: IC finishes 9-2, Cortland 4-6
2000: IC finishes 7-3, Cortland 4-6
2001: IC finishes 11-2, Cortland 5-5
2004: IC finishes 9-2, Cortland 5-4

None of these finishes should be suprising. It was the better team winning.

Last season might be the only time in the last 15 years that you could possibly argue a better Cortland team was upset by an Ithaca team.  There are games where the talent level is close, and those games tend to go both ways: IC in 1995, Cortland in 1997, Cortland in 2002. But all the "shockers" are Cortland topping IC. If IC wins this year, maybe I'll change my tune. But mostly, I believe the "anything can happen" line is an excuse from IC fans

[XREDDRAGON77]

Bombers79,
Not to get flamed on this....but in the 90's we were an independent, as were you I believe.  As a result we were playing Rowan (when they were really Rowan), Wash and Jeff, Montclair, Buff State (NCAA qualifiers), Springfield (up and down) week in and out.  Live by the sword die by the sword type of schedule.  It got us to the playoffs in '97 but burned us every year after.  Cortland was a good team in some of those years minus maybe 2000.  We had poor records but we were not bad like a Utica, Norwich, Jersey City type of program.

[realistic]

I've always hated that logic Bomber fans bring to Cortaca..."Throw out the records"...the reason we don't want people to know the records is simple...That way, when Bomber teams that have no business losing to Cortland do so, it's an excuse to use, rather than admitting the team underachieved and blew it.

For Example:

1996: A 6-1 IC team--whose only loss was to a D-II AIC, goes to a Cortland team that would end up 6-4 and lose by 28.
1999: 7-1 Bombers face a 4-4 Cortland team in Ithaca, lead 21-7 at the half, lose 26-21
2003: #14 8-1 Bombers face an unranked 4-4 Cortland team at home, lose 16-15
2005: #13 Ithaca faces an "also recieving votes" Cortland at home with a chance to secure a home NCAA playoff game, play a godawful first half, lose in OT

Those are four instances in which a clearly superior IC team lost to a Cortland team that was mediocre.  By contrast, almost all of the recent IC wins have been when IC had a clearly better team:

1998: IC finishes 9-2, Cortland 4-6
2000: IC finishes 7-3, Cortland 4-6
2001: IC finishes 11-2, Cortland 5-5
2004: IC finishes 9-2, Cortland 5-4

None of these finishes should be suprising. It was the better team winning.

Last season might be the only time in the last 15 years that you could possibly argue a better Cortland team was upset by an Ithaca team.  There are games where the talent level is close, and those games tend to go both ways: IC in 1995, Cortland in 1997, Cortland in 2002. But all the "shockers" are Cortland topping IC. If IC wins this year, maybe I'll change my tune. But mostly, I believe the "anything can happen" line is an excuse from IC fans

I don't think you're giving a lot of those C-State teams enough credit....and you can hate that logic all you want, but that doesn't mean the hype and atmosphere of the games have an effect on them.  As cliche as it is, at any level, Rivalry games always are crazy.  I think a great example of this for the Bombers is the years that they had a letdown game vs Buff State in the week after Cortaca.

Whether is Cortaca, the shoes, Johnnie-Tommie, etc....I don't think it's an excuse, I think it's understanding that it's the biggest game of the season.

[Bombers798891]

Bombers79,
Not to get flamed on this....but in the 90's we were an independent, as were you I believe.  As a result we were playing Rowan (when they were really Rowan), Wash and Jeff, Montclair, Buff State (NCAA qualifiers), Springfield (up and down) week in and out.  Live by the sword die by the sword type of schedule.  It got us to the playoffs in '97 but burned us every year after.  Cortland was a good team in some of those years minus maybe 2000.  We had poor records but we were not bad like a Utica, Norwich, Jersey City type of program.

I didn't set out to make you guys bad, sorry if it game across that way. It just seemed like, for those four years listed, Ithaca had a better team. Some of those IC teams were knocked out of the playoffs--or dropped to a very low seed. You guys have had a solid program, but, if my memory serves me, your only NCAA playoff win came 20 years ago, which, even accounting for schedules, says to me that you weren't that great. Good? Yes. Better than your record? Yes. But certainly no better than some other teams IC plays and beats. 1988 was probably your best team ever--you guys won the Jug but lost to us in the playoffs.

I don't know. I guess I've never gone into a Jug game saying "Yeah, IC is probably not going to win this game" and then seen IC win. But I've gone into quite a few--'03 and '05 especially--saying: "IC is the better team right now and should win" and seen you guys take it. And that's a compliment to Cortland. Pulling off the upsets is something you guys should be proud of. I just don't like the idea that we "Throw out records" because, a lot of the time, one team is better than the other, and, rivalry game or no, we should point that out. To me, throwing out the records is an insult to those Cortland teams. It's like saying it's not that you guys came to play, had the ability to play with a better team, made great adjustments and coaching decisions. It's just that it was a rivalry game, and anything can happen. We've seen Cortland upset IC, but have we ever seen IC upset Cortland? I don't think so

[KonArtist33]

I would love to see a Wick/RPI game, it could be a barn burner...

That brings back some memories. I was at the last game they played in 2003. RPI had their final four team, which was the best team i've ever seen. They we're one of the fist teams in NY to switch to a true spead. I think Wick set the NCAA record for turnovers in a game (it was like 13 or 14, something crazy). All I remember is the enire second half RPI ran twins so they wouldn't run up the score.

But it's too bad they don't play anymore. RPI and Union have played some classic games against Wick. Great crowds and high scores at most of them. It would be fun to see them play again this year, as long as its not an ECAC game.

[Knightstalker]

Bombers79,
Not to get flamed on this....but in the 90's we were an independent, as were you I believe.  As a result we were playing Rowan (when they were really Rowan), Wash and Jeff, Montclair, Buff State (NCAA qualifiers), Springfield (up and down) week in and out.  Live by the sword die by the sword type of schedule.  It got us to the playoffs in '97 but burned us every year after.  Cortland was a good team in some of those years minus maybe 2000.  We had poor records but we were not bad like a Utica, Norwich, Jersey City type of program.

Actually for a few years in the Mid 90's JCSC/NJCU was not a bad program.  Middle of the pack is more like it, C State and JCSC only played a couple of times in the 90's, but the Knights did go 3-2 against Fisher.  And beat Rowan in Glassboro in 98 I believe.

NJCU hasn't lost a game since 2003 though.

[Bombers798891]

I've always hated that logic Bomber fans bring to Cortaca..."Throw out the records"...the reason we don't want people to know the records is simple...That way, when Bomber teams that have no business losing to Cortland do so, it's an excuse to use, rather than admitting the team underachieved and blew it.

For Example:

1996: A 6-1 IC team--whose only loss was to a D-II AIC, goes to a Cortland team that would end up 6-4 and lose by 28.
1999: 7-1 Bombers face a 4-4 Cortland team in Ithaca, lead 21-7 at the half, lose 26-21
2003: #14 8-1 Bombers face an unranked 4-4 Cortland team at home, lose 16-15
2005: #13 Ithaca faces an "also recieving votes" Cortland at home with a chance to secure a home NCAA playoff game, play a godawful first half, lose in OT

Those are four instances in which a clearly superior IC team lost to a Cortland team that was mediocre.  By contrast, almost all of the recent IC wins have been when IC had a clearly better team:

1998: IC finishes 9-2, Cortland 4-6
2000: IC finishes 7-3, Cortland 4-6
2001: IC finishes 11-2, Cortland 5-5
2004: IC finishes 9-2, Cortland 5-4

None of these finishes should be suprising. It was the better team winning.

Last season might be the only time in the last 15 years that you could possibly argue a better Cortland team was upset by an Ithaca team.  There are games where the talent level is close, and those games tend to go both ways: IC in 1995, Cortland in 1997, Cortland in 2002. But all the "shockers" are Cortland topping IC. If IC wins this year, maybe I'll change my tune. But mostly, I believe the "anything can happen" line is an excuse from IC fans

I don't think you're giving a lot of those C-State teams enough credit....and you can hate that logic all you want, but that doesn't mean the hype and atmosphere of the games have an effect on them.  As cliche as it is, at any level, Rivalry games always are crazy.  I think a great example of this for the Bombers is the years that they had a letdown game vs Buff State in the week after Cortaca.

Whether is Cortaca, the shoes, Johnnie-Tommie, etc....I don't think it's an excuse, I think it's understanding that it's the biggest game of the season.

But the question is, shouldn't the hype and atomsphere have the same effect on teams? It's their rivalry game as much as ours.

I'm not saying those Cortland teams were bad. But, I am saying that there's this mentality from both sides--although I, obviously, only see it from the IC side--that, heading into the game, we can't admit that one team is better than the other because it's a "Rivalry game". I'm a Michigan State fan. Their biggest rival is Michigan. Was their game this season a rivalry game? Yeah. But that doesn't mean that Michigan State should be getting undue congrats for winning it. They were clearly the better team, rivalry game or no. They SHOULD have won the game, so I can't go that nuts over the win

You cannot tell me, for example, that IC wasn't the better team heading into that 2003 game. They'd already beaten a playoff bound Brockprot team by 21. Brockport had beaten Cortland already (IC was the only team to beat Brockport that season). They also beat a SJF team that went 8-3 and wound up beating Cortland. Seriously, Cortland needed a TD with 5 seconds to go to beat a 1-9 William Patterson team. They also only beat 1-9 Kean by three points...they were not that good. Ithaca went to the National QF's that season...Ithaca was the better team.

Also, Dragon, Cortland was an independant in 1999, but playing a lot of NJAC schools...here were their other four wins that year:

0-9 Kean
3-7 Jersey City
2-8 William Patterson
4-6 Springfield

9-30 Total

That's four wins over teams that were terrible. Ithaca's wins weren't terribly impressive, but they did have a win over D-II Mansfield, and Brockport and Hobart teams that finished above .500. The ONLY good team Cortland beat that season was IC. But Ithaca had already beaten better teams than Cortland.

In 2005, other than IC, Cortland's best win came against 6-4 Western Connecticut. IC had already beaten Alfred and SJF. Both teams beat Brockport that year, but their only other common opponent was Buff St. IC won that game by 17, Cortland lost by 7.

[maxpower]

understood-
pleasasnt change to have a poster on here from wick that doesnt make me wretch

It's funny how little they bother you when you beat them...



realistic, not brooke andrews, someone that graduated in 03 or 04....

['gro]

I would love to see a Wick/RPI game, it could be a barn burner...

That brings back some memories. I was at the last game they played in 2003. RPI had their final four team, which was the best team i've ever seen. They we're one of the fist teams in NY to switch to a true spead. I think Wick set the NCAA record for turnovers in a game (it was like 13 or 14, something crazy). All I remember is the enire second half RPI ran twins so they wouldn't run up the score.

But it's too bad they don't play anymore. RPI and Union have played some classic games against Wick. Great crowds and high scores at most of them. It would be fun to see them play again this year, as long as its not an ECAC game.

Last 3 RPI/Wick games (all RPI wins)

2001 62-47 - both teams undefeated (RPI 4-0, Wick 6-0) at the time, racked up 1200 yards of total offense combined. 4 TD passes for Cole, 7 for Pincelli

2002 39-38 - Last second score for Wick, but they couldn't get the XP off, holder tried a pass and didn't get it (Wick also lost back in 97 on a blocked XP). 5 TD passes for each QB. BTW Wick went 8-2 that year with a 1 point loss to RPI and another 1 point loss to Ithaca.

2003 52-7 - 11 turnovers for Wick. Ouch.

RPI/Wick was a great series and very competitive in the late 90's. Coach King would like them back on the schedule since they are so close.

[lewdogg11]

max, you are completely mis-quoting me in your tagline.

[pg04]

understood-
pleasasnt change to have a poster on here from wick that doesnt make me wretch

It's funny how little they bother you when you beat them...



realistic, not brooke andrews, someone that graduated in 03 or 04....

yeah
isn't that
funny? 

[fisheralum91]

isnt it funny that i have disliked wick since 1987.
when after choosing fisher over wick - i got not one but two nasty phone calls saying that i was making a mistake----and so began fa91's road to disliking hartwick college

[SJFF82]

isnt it funny that i have disliked wick since 1987.
when after choosing fisher over wick - i got not one but two nasty phone calls saying that i was making a mistake----and so began fa91's road to disliking hartwick college

I have told this story before....my dislike of 'Wick is not born out of on field football play as we swept Wick in my 'tenure' from '92-95, however, it was their coach in '95 who with the assistance of RPI's coach notified the NCAA that perhaps we had an ineligible OLman.   Ironically the call from the NCAA came soon after we beat 'Wick on a last second FG to go 5-0 on the season.  Outcome: 7-3 season is a 1-9 season in the books....    Apparently, RPI had also recruited the player from Hudson Valley and knew the 'facts' on him

[KonArtist33]

isnt it funny that i have disliked wick since 1987.
when after choosing fisher over wick - i got not one but two nasty phone calls saying that i was making a mistake----and so began fa91's road to disliking hartwick college

We're you playing field hockey? Cause Wick didn't have a football team untill 1992.