FB: Liberty League

[Jonny Utah]

LD, 2003 is the year where if it didn't snow, RPI would have lost 52-21 in their last game....

[Reno Hightower]

Well if Springfield goes 10-0 or 9-1 and Union goes 8-2 with one loss to an 9-0 or 8-1 RPI team, they would possibly get in over an 8-2 Ithaca or Alfred.  But that is probably the only scenerio where that might happen.  If RPI on the other hand loses an extra LL game and goes 8-2 or 7-2, they probably wouldnt get in becuase they wouldnt have lost to a top 10 team in the country.

It should help in recruiting I would think too (playing big games in front of a lot of fans)

That I agree with.  An I think they are more prone to lose LL games because they don't push themselves against these patty cake teams.  But on the outside looking in, we can bitch and moan all we want, atleast RPI did what they were expected to do.  It makes me ill when they play down to the level of their laughable competition.

Thats the downside of playing that schedule as well.  A loss to St. Lawrence or MM basically knocks an RPI or Union out of playoff contention.  And although RPI, Hobart, and Union are easily the top 3 in their conference, St. Lawrence, MM, Rochester, Susquen and WPI are not automatic blowouts or (wins for that matter).  The LL does not have a Hartwick, Norwich or Utica, which are probably the three worst teams by far out of the two leagues, and should be blowouts for the top 4 E8 teams (Alfred, SJF, SC and IC)

Reno doesn't know how you can say "RPI is easily a top 3 in their conference"......they finished 5th last year, 3rd the year before that, and Reno believes 4th the year before that. 1 top 3 finish in the last 3 years does not make them an easy top-3 team.

Dude stop being a clown.

2006 - RPI(7-3) finished 4th and smacked a highly touted Cortland in the ECACs while Rochester went and lost to Alfred.  Union and Hobart both loast their playoff games as well.

2005 - RPI(8-2) finished 3rd in the league and smacked down a highly touted St. John Fisher in the ECAC.

2004 - RPI(5-4) has a down year and still finishes 3rd in the LL.

2003 - I forget what happened that year.

To say RPI is not easily one of the top 3 programs in the LL is retarded.  Go eat some cheese dip****.  

They finished tied for 4th in 2006 and lost to the team they were tied with, that makes them the 5th place team. In the last 3 years they've been 5th, 3rd and 3rd (Id like to get an official on that one, Im taking your word for it....but they definetly lost to Union, Hobart that year they also lost to UTICA (gulp) which to me means they must have had another league loss to get their 5-4 record (we all know what their OOC schedule looks like), I find it hard to believe that they came in 3rd with 3 LL losses). That doesnt even average a 3rd place finish.
Now, I do believe that they have been the 3rd best team in the LL the last 3 years, absolutely. However, as the Great Coach Bill Parcells once said "You are what your record says you are" and last year RPI's record was that of a 5th place team in the LL.

[Rolevio]

After this week, Rolevio is just going to pretend Fantasy Football doesn't start until next week.  Rolevio's opponent in his other league has Peyton, Moss and Plaxico.

[lewdogg11]

Liberty League
2004 Standings
Conf Overall
School W L Pct W L Pct
Hobart 7 0 1.000 9 2 .818
Union 6 1 .857 6 3 .667
RPI 4 3 .571 5 4 .556
Rochester 3 4 .429 4 6 .400
St. Lawrence 3 4 .429 4 6 .400
Merchant Marine 3 4 .429 3 7 .300
Worcester Polytech 2 5 .286 5 5 .500
Coast Guard 0 7 .000 1 8 .111

[Reno Hightower]

They lost to St. Lawrence that year also.
Wow, losses to Utica and St Lawrence in the same season! OUCH!

RPI's record the last 3 seasons against St. Lawrence- 1-2

Reno would be a very unhappy alumnus if that was Union's record the last 3 years against the Larry's.

Reno doesnt think that you can call anyone who loses 2 out of 3 games to St Lawrence an easy top-3 team in the LL. Before you jump all over Reno, please remember that Reno does believe (having seen the Shoes Games) that RPI absolutely was the 3rd best. However.......OUCH!

['gro]

RPI, 1 bad year out of the last 3 (and without looking it up probably 2 out of the last 10 or so).  Some embarassing losses, and some resume building wins. Conference record isn't that impressive but the program has won big games (snow or no snow).

RPI > Union. It's science.

[Frank Rossi]

Well if Springfield goes 10-0 or 9-1 and Union goes 8-2 with one loss to an 9-0 or 8-1 RPI team, they would possibly get in over an 8-2 Ithaca or Alfred.  But that is probably the only scenerio where that might happen.  If RPI on the other hand loses an extra LL game and goes 8-2 or 7-2, they probably wouldnt get in becuase they wouldnt have lost to a top 10 team in the country.

It should help in recruiting I would think too (playing big games in front of a lot of fans)

That I agree with.  An I think they are more prone to lose LL games because they don't push themselves against these patty cake teams.  But on the outside looking in, we can bitch and moan all we want, atleast RPI did what they were expected to do.  It makes me ill when they play down to the level of their laughable competition.

LD -

We agree that the Springfield game doesn't help Union at the end of the day anymore (that's why I focused back on the genesis of the matchup from the pre-auto-bid days to explain that the use of Springfield on the schedule is less than it used to be, especially when you factor in the Springfield style and game plan).  If it were Ithaca, Cortland, Buff State, Brockport or -- you get the picture -- then Union, even in a loss, has had a challenging game on their schedule in which both offense and defense will get some good lessons and challenges heading into the league portion of the schedule.  If you schedule teams like Endicott, I think they fit better as a 10th game in the middle of the schedule for tune-up purposes into the meat of the league season for RPI.  

I disagree that you, as an alum, have no say here.  You have the power of the pen and the checkbook.  There are plenty of non-NEFC teams in the hopper that have schedule openings over the next years.  Feel free to let your feelings be known beyond the confines of the LLPP.

I'm friends with the King family, and I'm friends with the Audino family -- and if you listened to the broadcast on Saturday, you would have heard me lay into the dual-quarterback decision just as much as I'm laying into King-er's comments about the schedule.  They are both GREAT coaches.  It doesn't mean that I agree with EVERYTHING they say or do.  It's the same way I can call myself a Catholic even though I don't necessarily agree with 100% of the dicta taught by the Catholic Church as fact.

- Frank

[lewdogg11]

Well if Springfield goes 10-0 or 9-1 and Union goes 8-2 with one loss to an 9-0 or 8-1 RPI team, they would possibly get in over an 8-2 Ithaca or Alfred.  But that is probably the only scenerio where that might happen.  If RPI on the other hand loses an extra LL game and goes 8-2 or 7-2, they probably wouldnt get in becuase they wouldnt have lost to a top 10 team in the country.

It should help in recruiting I would think too (playing big games in front of a lot of fans)

That I agree with.  An I think they are more prone to lose LL games because they don't push themselves against these patty cake teams.  But on the outside looking in, we can bitch and moan all we want, atleast RPI did what they were expected to do.  It makes me ill when they play down to the level of their laughable competition.

LD -

We agree that the Springfield game doesn't help Union at the end of the day anymore (that's why I focused back on the genesis of the matchup from the pre-auto-bid days to explain that the use of Springfield on the schedule is less than it used to be, especially when you factor in the Springfield style and game plan).  If it were Ithaca, Cortland, Buff State, Brockport or -- you get the picture -- then Union, even in a loss, has had a challenging game on their schedule in which both offense and defense will get some good lessons and challenges heading into the league portion of the schedule.  If you schedule teams like Endicott, I think they fit better as a 10th game in the middle of the schedule for tune-up purposes into the meat of the league season for RPI.  

I disagree that you, as an alum, have no say here.  You have the power of the pen and the checkbook.  There are plenty of non-NEFC teams in the hopper that have schedule openings over the next years.  Feel free to let your feelings be known beyond the confines of the LLPP.

I'm friends with the King family, and I'm friends with the Audino family -- and if you listened to the broadcast on Saturday, you would have heard me lay into the dual-quarterback decision just as much as I'm laying into King-er's comments about the schedule.  They are both GREAT coaches.  It doesn't mean that I agree with EVERYTHING they say or do.  It's the same way I can call myself a Catholic even though I don't necessarily agree with 100% of the dicta taught by the Catholic Church as fact.

- Frank

Maybe i'd rather bitch about it on LLPP than pursue a change, because honestly, it doesn't affect my life all that much and i'm far too busy to lobby for a tougher schedule.

['gro]

The best non conference opponent is whatever team is going to go undefeated in the NEFC.

As far as RPI's schedule goes, gro doesn't need to see it get better, just different.  Some ideas...

Better regional or instate programs
Someone like SJF, IC, Cortland, Rowan, Alfred (battle of the pep bands). Something that is going to be a D3 East game of the week, better exposure, etc.
I left off springfield, no need to go up against their wacky offense unless it's the playoffs (oops, RPI already did that, with success)

Add an instate 10th game
Hartwick. Day trip. Do it.

Play one long road trip
Get some exposure somewhere else... Ohio, Minnesota, Maryland, Virginia.

The old "like minded" school
Personally, I'd like to see RPI set up an annual monkey stomping of MIT. There's also Carnegie Mellon, Hopkins, or even Rose Hulman and satisfy the long road trip.

thats a nice schedule, 1 or 2 tough OOC games, still has some fluff in it, and some exposure for the program.

[Frank Rossi]

The best non conference opponent is whatever team is going to go undefeated in the NEFC.

As far as RPI's schedule goes, gro doesn't need to see it get better, just different.  Some ideas...

Better regional or instate programs
Someone like SJF, IC, Cortland, Rowan, Alfred (battle of the pep bands). Something that is going to be a D3 East game of the week, better exposure, etc.
I left off springfield, no need to go up against their wacky offense unless it's the playoffs (oops, RPI already did that, with success)

Add an instate 10th game
Hartwick. Day trip. Do it.

Play one long road trip
Get some exposure somewhere else... Ohio, Minnesota, Maryland, Virginia.

The old "like minded" school
Personally, I'd like to see RPI set up an annual monkey stomping of MIT. There's also Carnegie Mellon, Hopkins, or even Rose Hulman and satisfy the long road trip.

thats a nice schedule, 1 or 2 tough OOC games, still has some fluff in it, and some exposure for the program.

Well thought out and great ideas, Gro.  The fluffiest opponent belongs mid-season, definitely, because it allows the coach to try some changes without much penalty heading into the meat of the league schedule -- so I like that Hartwick idea in the mid-point.

[Frank Rossi]

New poll up with relevance to this out-of-conference discussion.  My vote went to Rochester.  Two quality opponents at the top, and some fluff in the middle (although, Mt. Ida made it tough for me to give them my vote).  It's a tough call, though, so read all of the choices.

[Stlarry]

The best non conference opponent is whatever team is going to go undefeated in the NEFC.

As far as RPI's schedule goes, gro doesn't need to see it get better, just different.  Some ideas...

Better regional or instate programs
Someone like SJF, IC, Cortland, Rowan, Alfred (battle of the pep bands). Something that is going to be a D3 East game of the week, better exposure, etc.
I left off springfield, no need to go up against their wacky offense unless it's the playoffs (oops, RPI already did that, with success)

Add an instate 10th game
Hartwick. Day trip. Do it.

Play one long road trip
Get some exposure somewhere else... Ohio, Minnesota, Maryland, Virginia.

The old "like minded" school
Personally, I'd like to see RPI set up an annual monkey stomping of MIT. There's also Carnegie Mellon, Hopkins, or even Rose Hulman and satisfy the long road trip.

thats a nice schedule, 1 or 2 tough OOC games, still has some fluff in it, and some exposure for the program.

StLarry would add that an out of region game could also be a nice way to add to the recruiting base.  Coaches normally scout out the local HS teams on Friday nights before the game, and they would get to see kids they normally would get no exposure to, and the kids would also get a chance to see what the college is all about.  Money and missing classes is always an issue for this, but it is always fun for the team to take a 2 day trip to a game (although SLU has to do this for MMA, etc since Larryland is in Canada pretty much)

[Frank Rossi]

The best non conference opponent is whatever team is going to go undefeated in the NEFC.

As far as RPI's schedule goes, gro doesn't need to see it get better, just different.  Some ideas...

Better regional or instate programs
Someone like SJF, IC, Cortland, Rowan, Alfred (battle of the pep bands). Something that is going to be a D3 East game of the week, better exposure, etc.
I left off springfield, no need to go up against their wacky offense unless it's the playoffs (oops, RPI already did that, with success)

Add an instate 10th game
Hartwick. Day trip. Do it.

Play one long road trip
Get some exposure somewhere else... Ohio, Minnesota, Maryland, Virginia.

The old "like minded" school
Personally, I'd like to see RPI set up an annual monkey stomping of MIT. There's also Carnegie Mellon, Hopkins, or even Rose Hulman and satisfy the long road trip.

thats a nice schedule, 1 or 2 tough OOC games, still has some fluff in it, and some exposure for the program.

StLarry would add that an out of region game could also be a nice way to add to the recruiting base.  Coaches normally scout out the local HS teams on Friday nights before the game, and they would get to see kids they normally would get no exposure to, and the kids would also get a chance to see what the college is all about.  Money and missing classes is always an issue for this, but it is always fun for the team to take a 2 day trip to a game (although SLU has to do this for MMA, etc since Larryland is in Canada pretty much)

Only danger with out-of-region games is that they do not count in the Quality of Wins component when Pool C/B consideration occurs for a team.  This means that unless a team wants to allow less games to give more sway to its QoW index, the out-of-region game has to be a 10th game and not a 9th game on a schedule.  However, I do like the ability to see a team play a quality opponent with some good travel required, like when Union played at Carnegie Mellon back in 1996.

[Pat Coleman]

I voted for Susquehanna because their schedule gets a few things accomplished -- it maintains their in-state rivalries and allows them to have some shorter trips.

Coming from the MAC, I doubt Susquehanna would ever play a nine-game schedule. There are only a couple of leagues where teams still do this.

[PBR...]

pbr has to give big props to coach clements at dvc for going on the road and playing 3 straight road games against very tough ranked opponents, wesley, salisbury, iona....they are replacing a lot of starters from last years team and taking some early lumps but pbr believes and hopes they will be much toughter and better off because of it and hopefully really make some noise in the mac. pbr wanted to see a tough ooc schedule but never envisioned this tough but on the other hand pbr likes it and this team will be very seasoned and ready for mac play now