FB: Liberty League

[Pat Coleman]

I think it would be great for football, bad for getting teams in the playoffs.

[Jonny Utah]

I think it would be great for football, bad for getting teams in the playoffs.

Yea but if you have two leagues with 7-8 teams in each one, the NCAA should give each a pool A bid.

[Pat Coleman]

Except this is one league, it sounds like.

And actually, though, as long as we're being this serious about it, newly formed football-only conferences would not be eligible to get automatic bids under the current regs. So they would all be in B.

[union89]

HUGE news on the Front Page re: the E8 in danger of losing its auto-bid in 4 years.  Sure, that's a long way off, but the repercussions could be felt as far as the NJAC and the LL -- the E8 needs to replace the void that will be left by Norwich jumping ship.  Could a play be made to get Cortland, Buffalo State, Brockport State, Susquehanna (requires E8 name change), WPI (same) or USMMA to join the E8?  I think there's a good chance that at least one of those could happen by 2009 just based on the fluid nature of such situations.  Stay tuned.

I'm pretty sure it won't be Cortland, Buffalo State or Brockport. Part of that whole "like-minded" institutions rhetoric. Ithaca is the only team that's played all three schools on a consistent basis. Fisher can just about be lumped into that category with games against Buff State and Brockport. It was said on the Empire 8 board that Alfred doesn't play public schools, even though the head coach, Dave Murray, is the former head coach at Cortland. Hartwick and Utica don't play the public schools either, though Utica did play Cortland during a two-year stretch before the series was ended.

Over the last year or so, there've been rumors that either Lycoming or Kings would be coming into the Empire 8. Geographically, Lyco would be the best bet with Williamsport not far from Alfred or Ithaca. But, that really disables the MAC. I don't see any Liberty teams potentially moving.

Obviously the best thing, suggested by multiple people over the years and by RT this past Saturday, form a super-conference between the E8 and the LL. Of course this would never happen, but it'd solve a lot of scheduling issues.

Forget the "like-minded insitutions" rhetoric....let's get real and do something for the football fans of the state and make a super NY conference, like the SEC does...East and West. I don't give a flying shizz if RPI is in the same conf. as Cortland or Brockport....we're not going for the same student anyway and do you think 99.99% of the Pakistani's or Chinamen that go to RPI (the ones that walk past the football game on Sat, stare quizically, then head to the library) would even care (much less know) about the other teams in our conference? Let the NESCAC worry about that snobbiness.  For example, in the SEC, do you think Arkansas or Miss St. is of the same calber school as Vanderbilt?

RT's proposed "NYSAC"..NYS Athletic Conference

West                                                                     East
Alfred                                                                         RPI
Brockport St                                                               Union
St.John Fisher                                                            Harwick
Rochester                                                                  St.Lawrence
Buffalo St.                                                                  Utica
Cortland St.                                                               Ithaca
                                                                                  Kings Point

Is RT missing anyone? Then you follow a format like the SEC and do crossover games but keep traditional rivalries every year (Corica Jug, Shooz game, et) It was tough but to balance, RT split up Cortland and Ithaca. The west looks a bit loaded on paper so another reason RT put IC in the east

However, what do you gain from this?  If 14 teams can sustain two separate conferences, then they're guaranteed two Pool A slots and access to Pool C.  Under your plan, you have one Pool A and only access to Pool C.  The other idea we had discussed on the WABY broadcast was more practical:  maintain the separate conferences, but come up with an NFL-type interconference scheduling agreement by which the top E8 team plays the top LL team to open the season, etc. (based on prior year records).  This would allow the teams to maintain some semblence of a fair out-of-conference schedule, retain several playoff slots and avoid the like-minded BS.  I don't like the "Superconference" idea at all.

Hate it.....the LL can't even schedule games with the E8 and vice-versa.....forget about all 14 teams coming together as one happy conference!!!  

Plus what would we do with the whole which conference is better arguement?

[Frank Rossi]

I think as a whole the superconference is the absolute best thing that could happen to upstate football.    Im sure the NCAA would be willing to compromise and give 2 pool A bids somehow to 15 teams.  Id also ask Springfield if they wanted to join.  They have a stong football tradition that should be welcomed in this proposed best conference in the history of conferences.

Remember, conference affiliations stretch beyond just football.  You're basically bestowing such affiliations in basketball and baseball, sports which have lower travel budgets in general.  You might be able to somehow knive two bids for football, but what effect would it have for the basketball bracket access among other championships?  It's a cruddy idea, I have to be honest, and not based on "like-minded" arguments.

[pg04]

The funny thing is, before Norwich did this, I was feeling that next year finally all the New York teams were in a stable Conference situation! 

I don't think any superconference is necessary.  I'm sure the E8 will be able to find another member quickly, most likely Lycoming or King's in my mind 

[Jonny Utah]

Except this is one league, it sounds like.

And actually, though, as long as we're being this serious about it, newly formed football-only conferences would not be eligible to get automatic bids under the current regs. So they would all be in B.

I think the NCAA would change the rules on that one though.  Considering all the teams (I think) are already in leagues that have bids.

I think as a whole the superconference is the absolute best thing that could happen to upstate football.    Im sure the NCAA would be willing to compromise and give 2 pool A bids somehow to 15 teams.  Id also ask Springfield if they wanted to join.  They have a stong football tradition that should be welcomed in this proposed best conference in the history of conferences.

Remember, conference affiliations stretch beyond just football.  You're basically bestowing such affiliations in basketball and baseball, sports which have lower travel budgets in general.  You might be able to somehow knive two bids for football, but what effect would it have for the basketball bracket access among other championships?  It's a cruddy idea, I have to be honest, and not based on "like-minded" arguments.

No it would be a football conference only.  Everything else would be the same in terms of the E8 or LL or NYSACC?.  Look at the NEFC.  Thats a football only conference that doenst really effect the other sports.

[Pat Coleman]

I think the NCAA would change the rules on that one though.  Considering all the teams (I think) are already in leagues that have bids.

I don't think you have a lot of experience in how NCAA member schools make their decisions.

[Frank Rossi]

Moving right along, I'm uninspired by Budcrew's choice of games for predictions:

"Three predictions for Week 3

Rochester at St. John Fisher, the Courage Bowl
I think Rochester's 23-point loss in Week 1 was a fluke, but I still believe St. John Fisher has too many weapons.
St. John Fisher 38, Rochester 21.

Ithaca at Hartwick
The Bombers show the Hawks why they are ranked yet again.
Ithaca 30, Hartwick 13

St. Lawrence at Alfred
In this interconference battle, (see how my column comes full circle) the Saints take on the Saxons. This game should be close, but I believe Alfred will pull it out.
AU 27, SLU 20."

C'mon Budcrew - Union/Muhlenberg...USMMA/Wm. Patterson...Even RPI/Utica...and I haven't even touched the E8's schedule this weekend...Stop protecting your 3-0 record on the softballs from last week!

[pg04]

Or even Brockport/Cortland 

[Jonny Utah]

I think the NCAA would change the rules on that one though.  Considering all the teams (I think) are already in leagues that have bids.

I don't think you have a lot of experience in how NCAA member schools make their decisions.

No I hear ya.  But I think the NCAA is not being totally fair when it comes to this AQ/pool bids for playoffs.  Heres a school like Buff St or Corltand having to spend thousands of dollars a year more on travel because they need to join a conference for a pool A bid.  The superconference is almost as much about equity than it is about good football.

[Frank Rossi]

I think the NCAA would change the rules on that one though.  Considering all the teams (I think) are already in leagues that have bids.

I don't think you have a lot of experience in how NCAA member schools make their decisions.

No I hear ya.  But I think the NCAA is not being totally fair when it comes to this AQ/pool bids for playoffs.  Heres a school like Buff St or Corltand having to spend thousands of dollars a year more on travel because they need to join a conference for a pool A bid.  The superconference is almost as much about equity than it is about good football.

Let's take a quick look at the ACC since unification.  You can't just throw together a bunch of teams with some semblence of power and hope for the best.  The ACC has been an utter disappointment because concepts that look good on paper don't necessarily play out right.  The ACC had maybe 4 quality programs when it combined (Va. Tech, Miami, FSU and Clemson (maybe))...but once one or two went south, the dead weight such a superconference created has been hideous.  That would likely be the same fate for the NY superconference.  I like loose affiliations, but I don't like complete combinations. 

[Jonny Utah]

I think the NCAA would change the rules on that one though.  Considering all the teams (I think) are already in leagues that have bids.

I don't think you have a lot of experience in how NCAA member schools make their decisions.

No I hear ya.  But I think the NCAA is not being totally fair when it comes to this AQ/pool bids for playoffs.  Heres a school like Buff St or Corltand having to spend thousands of dollars a year more on travel because they need to join a conference for a pool A bid.  The superconference is almost as much about equity than it is about good football.

Let's take a quick look at the ACC since unification.  You can't just throw together a bunch of teams with some semblence of power and hope for the best.  The ACC has been an utter disappointment because concepts that look good on paper don't necessarily play out right.  The ACC had maybe 4 quality programs when it combined (Va. Tech, Miami, FSU and Clemson (maybe))...but once one or two went south, the dead weight such a superconference created has been hideous.  That would likely be the same fate for the NY superconference.  I like loose affiliations, but I don't like complete combinations. 

Yea but the "unification" of the ACC is a little different since the schools are so far apart.  A BC/Maryland or NCState/Miami rivalry probably is never going to rise up, but a Ithaca/Union or Cortland/Hobart just might. 

[Tags]

I think the NCAA would change the rules on that one though.  Considering all the teams (I think) are already in leagues that have bids.

I don't think you have a lot of experience in how NCAA member schools make their decisions.

No I hear ya.  But I think the NCAA is not being totally fair when it comes to this AQ/pool bids for playoffs.  Heres a school like Buff St or Corltand having to spend thousands of dollars a year more on travel because they need to join a conference for a pool A bid.  The superconference is almost as much about equity than it is about good football.

Let's take a quick look at the ACC since unification.  You can't just throw together a bunch of teams with some semblence of power and hope for the best.  The ACC has been an utter disappointment because concepts that look good on paper don't necessarily play out right.  The ACC had maybe 4 quality programs when it combined (Va. Tech, Miami, FSU and Clemson (maybe))...but once one or two went south, the dead weight such a superconference created has been hideous.  That would likely be the same fate for the NY superconference.  I like loose affiliations, but I don't like complete combinations. 

Don't forget it's not just about football. It's a pretty good conference all around when you take into consideration all sports.

I don't think a superconference would be that awful

[Frank Rossi]

I think the NCAA would change the rules on that one though.  Considering all the teams (I think) are already in leagues that have bids.

I don't think you have a lot of experience in how NCAA member schools make their decisions.

No I hear ya.  But I think the NCAA is not being totally fair when it comes to this AQ/pool bids for playoffs.  Heres a school like Buff St or Corltand having to spend thousands of dollars a year more on travel because they need to join a conference for a pool A bid.  The superconference is almost as much about equity than it is about good football.

Let's take a quick look at the ACC since unification.  You can't just throw together a bunch of teams with some semblence of power and hope for the best.  The ACC has been an utter disappointment because concepts that look good on paper don't necessarily play out right.  The ACC had maybe 4 quality programs when it combined (Va. Tech, Miami, FSU and Clemson (maybe))...but once one or two went south, the dead weight such a superconference created has been hideous.  That would likely be the same fate for the NY superconference.  I like loose affiliations, but I don't like complete combinations. 

Yea but the "unification" of the ACC is a little different since the schools are so far apart.  A BC/Maryland or NCState/Miami rivalry probably is never going to rise up, but a Ithaca/Union or Cortland/Hobart just might. 

However, Union would play Ithaca only once every three years in such a schedule (assuming 10-game schedule, retaining at least the RPI and Hobart games annually, two other games from the current LL, 2 non-conference games).  Otherwise, the schedules would become un-fluid, and would then cause the question, "Why did we bother with unification?"