FB: Liberty League

[lewdogg11]

So JU, by your logic, when the Sox pay Papelbon the big bucks he deserves, he will be considered 'bought'? 

Varitek was a nobody when they got him.

Ortiz was a nobody when they got him. 

Those are players that are groomed by the team and the system.  Just because they became superstars and THEN needed paydays, doesn't mean they are bought. 

I don't consider Mike Lowell 'bought' because he was a 'catch' that HAD to go with Beckett, and many teams passed on him because he was 'washed up'. 

What they are paid doesn't mean they are necessarily 'bought'.  With that logic, we'llhave the Oakland A's in Boston...as soon as they are good enough for a big contract, they go elsewhere...

[Frank Rossi]

The feeling of this season's Sox ending is actually quite reminiscent of last season.

About a month before the end of the season, it looked like they were a lock for the postseason, only to have to battle their way in on the final weekend -- and then got ousted in an ugly way in the Divisional Series.  My issue here is this:  so what if you win the division against the Yankees?  You're sliding BIGTIME right now.  You'll be trounced in the first round with this pitching.  Stop focusing on the Division vs. the Wild Card stigma -- you're up 7 to the Tigers and 8 to the Mariners in the Wild Card race with 9 to go.  Shake up the lineup and make some bold moves to wake this team up.  It's obvious they put it into cruise control a month ago, and then when they needed to wake up, their dormancy kicked in (see fatigued Okajima). 

They can't keep backing into the playoffs this way under Francona -- and this is why I think Grady Little was actually a stronger manager than Francona at times.  He had them ready for September, let alone October.  Grady became Pedro's bytch and got bounced after the most memorable of pitcher's mound scene you'll ever see - one-on-one talking to his ace when it was obvious he was out of gas.

[Jonny Utah]

So JU, by your logic, when the Sox pay Papelbon the big bucks he deserves, he will be considered 'bought'? 

Varitek was a nobody when they got him.

Ortiz was a nobody when they got him. 

Those are players that are groomed by the team and the system.  Just because they became superstars and THEN needed paydays, doesn't mean they are bought. 

I don't consider Mike Lowell 'bought' because he was a 'catch' that HAD to go with Beckett, and many teams passed on him because he was 'washed up'. 

What they are paid doesn't mean they are necessarily 'bought'.  With that logic, we'llhave the Oakland A's in Boston...as soon as they are good enough for a big contract, they go elsewhere...

Well when I say "bought" I meant that only a team like the red sox (and maybe 4-5 other teams) would be able to afford that player.  And its actually not being able to afford that one player.  Its about being able to afford that player and at the same time overpaying 8 other guys that only 4 other teams would be able to keep.

And I said Lowell was bought in terms that not many other teams were willing to pay his salary for what he was worth.  The sox could and he actually worked out and is worth his money.

Ortiz, and Varetik were nobodys when they got them, but when it came paytime, only the sox (and the 4-5 other teams) could pay them the 10-15 million they were worth on top of the other 10 players they have making 10 million plus.

But my whole point was that the Yankees money players were outperfroming  the sox money players

[Jonny Utah]

The feeling of this season's Sox ending is actually quite reminiscent of last season.

About a month before the end of the season, it looked like they were a lock for the postseason, only to have to battle their way in on the final weekend -- and then got ousted in an ugly way in the Divisional Series.  My issue here is this:  so what if you win the division against the Yankees?  You're sliding BIGTIME right now.  You'll be trounced in the first round with this pitching.  Stop focusing on the Division vs. the Wild Card stigma -- you're up 7 to the Tigers and 8 to the Mariners in the Wild Card race with 9 to go.  Shake up the lineup and make some bold moves to wake this team up.  It's obvious they put it into cruise control a month ago, and then when they needed to wake up, their dormancy kicked in (see fatigued Okajima). 

They can't keep backing into the playoffs this way under Francona -- and this is why I think Grady Little was actually a stronger manager than Francona at times.  He had them ready for September, let alone October.  Grady became Pedro's bytch and got bounced after the most memorable of pitcher's mound scene you'll ever see - one-on-one talking to his ace when it was obvious he was out of gas.

Frank its the hitting more than the pitching in this last month.  In 2004 the sox had the frickin AL batting champ batting 8th and 9th.  Now their 5th and 6th hitters are batting .250 and .260.

But Pap and Okijima are causes for concern at this point of the season.  There is even talk about resting them almost comletely for the rest of the season.

And I am still in the camp that you still know that you are going to the playoffs.  Why not try out gagne again to see if he will be able at all to pitch in that situation.  Now you know he cant.  Its better to find that out now, then to wait untill game 5 in some series when they might have to bring him in.  Now you know he will never see the field.

And although Manny isnt in there, the guy is still a .300+ hitter with power that is invaluable behind ortiz...

[Knightstalker]

KS can't believe he is saying this but resting Okijima is probably the best thing right now.  Look how much better Mussina is pitching after sitting for about 10 days.

[Jonny Utah]

KS can't believe he is saying this but resting Okijima is probably the best thing right now.  Look how much better Mussina is pitching after sitting for about 10 days.

Yea I dont think the sox have any other option right now other than rest those guys, and then man it up when the playoffs come.

[Regulator]

Reg feels like chucking cat terds at everyones head that is talking baseball right now!

Regs eyes hurt from reading through this crap!

[PBR...]

now that is funny reg...reg when u pullin the boat outta da h2o?

[union89]

The feeling of this season's Sox ending is actually quite reminiscent of last season.

About a month before the end of the season, it looked like they were a lock for the postseason, only to have to battle their way in on the final weekend -- and then got ousted in an ugly way in the Divisional Series.  My issue here is this:  so what if you win the division against the Yankees?  You're sliding BIGTIME right now.  You'll be trounced in the first round with this pitching.  Stop focusing on the Division vs. the Wild Card stigma -- you're up 7 to the Tigers and 8 to the Mariners in the Wild Card race with 9 to go.  Shake up the lineup and make some bold moves to wake this team up.  It's obvious they put it into cruise control a month ago, and then when they needed to wake up, their dormancy kicked in (see fatigued Okajima). 

They can't keep backing into the playoffs this way under Francona -- and this is why I think Grady Little was actually a stronger manager than Francona at times.  He had them ready for September, let alone October.  Grady became Pedro's bytch and got bounced after the most memorable of pitcher's mound scene you'll ever see - one-on-one talking to his ace when it was obvious he was out of gas.

Frank its the hitting more than the pitching in this last month.  In 2004 the sox had the frickin AL batting champ batting 8th and 9th.  Now their 5th and 6th hitters are batting .250 and .260.

But Pap and Okijima are causes for concern at this point of the season.  There is even talk about resting them almost comletely for the rest of the season.

And I am still in the camp that you still know that you are going to the playoffs.  Why not try out gagne again to see if he will be able at all to pitch in that situation.  Now you know he cant.  Its better to find that out now, then to wait untill game 5 in some series when they might have to bring him in.  Now you know he will never see the field.

And although Manny isnt in there, the guy is still a .300+ hitter with power that is invaluable behind ortiz...

Why is everybody downplaying winning the division and having the best record in the AL??  Does home field mean nothing??  The team with the best record also picks the game day set up....set 1 plays on consecutive days while set 2 has off days between games 1, 2 & 3...HUGE for the Sox, giving them the ability to use Pap all 3 games.

Also, Manny is a b!tch...when re-evaluated the other day, he felt fine swinging a bat, but felt pain in the obleque (sp) running....can someone tell that clueless SOB that the Sox are in a pennant race??  Classically, Manny's month off at the end of September....can't wait for that $$ to be spent elsewhere after the '08 season.

[Jonny Utah]

The feeling of this season's Sox ending is actually quite reminiscent of last season.

About a month before the end of the season, it looked like they were a lock for the postseason, only to have to battle their way in on the final weekend -- and then got ousted in an ugly way in the Divisional Series.  My issue here is this:  so what if you win the division against the Yankees?  You're sliding BIGTIME right now.  You'll be trounced in the first round with this pitching.  Stop focusing on the Division vs. the Wild Card stigma -- you're up 7 to the Tigers and 8 to the Mariners in the Wild Card race with 9 to go.  Shake up the lineup and make some bold moves to wake this team up.  It's obvious they put it into cruise control a month ago, and then when they needed to wake up, their dormancy kicked in (see fatigued Okajima). 

They can't keep backing into the playoffs this way under Francona -- and this is why I think Grady Little was actually a stronger manager than Francona at times.  He had them ready for September, let alone October.  Grady became Pedro's bytch and got bounced after the most memorable of pitcher's mound scene you'll ever see - one-on-one talking to his ace when it was obvious he was out of gas.

Frank its the hitting more than the pitching in this last month.  In 2004 the sox had the frickin AL batting champ batting 8th and 9th.  Now their 5th and 6th hitters are batting .250 and .260.

But Pap and Okijima are causes for concern at this point of the season.  There is even talk about resting them almost comletely for the rest of the season.

And I am still in the camp that you still know that you are going to the playoffs.  Why not try out gagne again to see if he will be able at all to pitch in that situation.  Now you know he cant.  Its better to find that out now, then to wait untill game 5 in some series when they might have to bring him in.  Now you know he will never see the field.

And although Manny isnt in there, the guy is still a .300+ hitter with power that is invaluable behind ortiz...

Why is everybody downplaying winning the division and having the best record in the AL??  Does home field mean nothing??  The team with the best record also picks the game day set up....set 1 plays on consecutive days while set 2 has off days between games 1, 2 & 3...HUGE for the Sox, giving them the ability to use Pap all 3 games.

Also, Manny is a b!tch...when re-evaluated the other day, he felt fine swinging a bat, but felt pain in the obleque (sp) running....can someone tell that clueless SOB that the Sox are in a pennant race??  Classically, Manny's month off at the end of September....can't wait for that $$ to be spent elsewhere after the '08 season.

I dont think home field means anything 90% of the time.  I think the last 5-7 WS have had wildcard teams in it.  Being healthy is more important.

[Regulator]

now that is funny reg...reg when u pullin the boat outta da h2o?

Rumor has it that the boat will be hibernating after this weekend, up for sale at a brokers.  Rumor also has it that MR is getting a 49% say in which boat we end up with if it sells.

[Jonny Utah]

now that is funny reg...reg when u pullin the boat outta da h2o?

Rumor has it that the boat will be hibernating after this weekend, up for sale at a brokers.  Rumor also has it that MR is getting a 49% say in which boat we end up with if it sells.

So Reg, let me ask you this (I dont know too much about boats)

-Are you lookin to upgrade?  And are resale values for boats pretty good (much better than cars Im assuming)

[union89]

The feeling of this season's Sox ending is actually quite reminiscent of last season.

About a month before the end of the season, it looked like they were a lock for the postseason, only to have to battle their way in on the final weekend -- and then got ousted in an ugly way in the Divisional Series.  My issue here is this:  so what if you win the division against the Yankees?  You're sliding BIGTIME right now.  You'll be trounced in the first round with this pitching.  Stop focusing on the Division vs. the Wild Card stigma -- you're up 7 to the Tigers and 8 to the Mariners in the Wild Card race with 9 to go.  Shake up the lineup and make some bold moves to wake this team up.  It's obvious they put it into cruise control a month ago, and then when they needed to wake up, their dormancy kicked in (see fatigued Okajima). 

They can't keep backing into the playoffs this way under Francona -- and this is why I think Grady Little was actually a stronger manager than Francona at times.  He had them ready for September, let alone October.  Grady became Pedro's bytch and got bounced after the most memorable of pitcher's mound scene you'll ever see - one-on-one talking to his ace when it was obvious he was out of gas.

Frank its the hitting more than the pitching in this last month.  In 2004 the sox had the frickin AL batting champ batting 8th and 9th.  Now their 5th and 6th hitters are batting .250 and .260.

But Pap and Okijima are causes for concern at this point of the season.  There is even talk about resting them almost comletely for the rest of the season.

And I am still in the camp that you still know that you are going to the playoffs.  Why not try out gagne again to see if he will be able at all to pitch in that situation.  Now you know he cant.  Its better to find that out now, then to wait untill game 5 in some series when they might have to bring him in.  Now you know he will never see the field.

And although Manny isnt in there, the guy is still a .300+ hitter with power that is invaluable behind ortiz...

Why is everybody downplaying winning the division and having the best record in the AL??  Does home field mean nothing??  The team with the best record also picks the game day set up....set 1 plays on consecutive days while set 2 has off days between games 1, 2 & 3...HUGE for the Sox, giving them the ability to use Pap all 3 games.

Also, Manny is a b!tch...when re-evaluated the other day, he felt fine swinging a bat, but felt pain in the obleque (sp) running....can someone tell that clueless SOB that the Sox are in a pennant race??  Classically, Manny's month off at the end of September....can't wait for that $$ to be spent elsewhere after the '08 season.

I dont think home field means anything 90% of the time.  I think the last 5-7 WS have had wildcard teams in it.  Being healthy is more important.

As Bob from 'Bob's Furniture' says...."Hogwash!!!!"

[Jonny Utah]

check this kid out....

http://www.break.com/index/sick-whiffle-ball-pitcher.html

[Regulator]

now that is funny reg...reg when u pullin the boat outta da h2o?

Rumor has it that the boat will be hibernating after this weekend, up for sale at a brokers.  Rumor also has it that MR is getting a 49% say in which boat we end up with if it sells.

So Reg, let me ask you this (I dont know too much about boats)

-Are you lookin to upgrade?  And are resale values for boats pretty good (much better than cars Im assuming)

We'll either go much larger to a 35'+ or smaller to a single engine express cruiser.

Boat resale values are the worst they have ever been...if you can even sell a boat in this market.  New boat sales are terrible and used boat sales are even worse, which significantly drives down price if you want to actually sell.  Reg isn't in too big of a hurry, however gets bored with stuff to easy. (hence the 6 boats in 4 years)

Resale:
As an example, if you paid $125k for a boat in 2003, it would probably be worth $70 if you sold it now.  Is that as good as cars?  Bottom line, boaters are idiots....they get in way too far over there heads and think they are doing themselves justice by upgrading and taking a longer note against the next boat when the dealer gives them a good deal for their boat as a trade...."Hey dood, eventually you being upside down is going to catch up with you!!"  You have a $200k note you have to pay off on a boat you can sell for $130K....do you even have the money to satisfy the note if you need to sell?

Reg is very flexible with what kind of boat we end up with....probably end up with the boat that fits into the "kick the seller in the nuts" deal.