FB: Liberty League

[dlippiel]

....a good football team and some poor mistakes kill the Dutchmen today...

[mattvsmith]

Hobart wins over Carnegie Mellon (with intentional safety at end to protect win) 21-16

This is a strategy The Rev hasn't quite been able to wrap his mind around.  How does an intentional safety protect the win?  By giving the opponent poorer field position than they would have had if the drive had played itself out naturally?

[Frank Rossi]

LL Results So Far:

  1:00 PM  Becker  7  Worcester Polytech  47  Final    
  1:00 PM  Hobart  21  Carnegie Mellon  16  Final    
  1:00 PM  Muhlenberg  31  Union  14  Final    
  1:00 PM  Alfred   20  St. Lawrence  3  Final    
  1:00 PM  Merchant Marine  13  William Paterson   21  Final    
  1:30 PM  RPI  24  Utica  10  Final    
  1:30 PM  Susquehanna  16  Lycoming  28  Final    
  7:00 PM  St. John Fisher   Rochester      

[Frank Rossi]

Hobart wins over Carnegie Mellon (with intentional safety at end to protect win) 21-16

This is a strategy The Rev hasn't quite been able to wrap his mind around.  How does an intentional safety protect the win?  By giving the opponent poorer field position than they would have had if the drive had played itself out naturally?

It's actually a great call under these exact conditions.  If you attempt a kick in a short backfield scenario, it could be blocked for an instant TD or fall at the 10-yard line or less.  So, you'd potentially be handing the other team a tie with the punter not getting the full 15 and a full-house defensive rush from all corners.  Here, you risk your TD lead, but you virtually guarantee, assuming appropriate kickoff coverage, no worse than midfield for the ensuing possession with only three seconds left.  Thus, one Hail Mary pass was allowed, and Hobart jarred the QB as he threw.  I don't disagree with the philosophy under these specific conditions (very little time left and the punter in a troublesome position).

- Frank

[mattvsmith]

Thanks, Frank.
Very interesting decision by Coach Cragg.  I had never heard of anyone doing this before, but it looks as if it worked like a charm.

[Frank Rossi]

Thanks, Frank.
Very interesting decision by Coach Cragg.  I had never heard of anyone doing this before, but it looks as if it worked like a charm.

Anytime Rev.  You see it more frequently when a team has a 5- or 6-point lead in order to protect against a possible instant-TD scenario (there, the TD+PAT would win the game anyway, so you don't risk much at all).  It's rare to see it happen with the 7-point lead, but it's not out of the question.  You just need a very specific scenario for it, like we saw today.  Cragg probably hoped to run a couple more seconds off the clock with the whole scenario, but it still wasn't a bad move. 

[mattvsmith]

Worchester Polyechnic 3-0.
The Rev wonders how well they will survive the next two weeks against RPI and Union.

If they beat one or both, this could be the most different season we've seen in years.

[Frank Rossi]

Worchester Polyechnic 3-0.
The Rev wonders how well they will survive the next two weeks against RPI and Union.

If they beat one or both, this could be the most different season we've seen in years.

Ehhh...NOT SO FAST, My Friend...

Here are WPI's 2007 results (4-6 final standings):

Sep. 1  7:00 PM  Mass-Dartmouth •  W, 49-17     
Sep. 7  7:00 PM  at Worcester State •  W, 40-14     
Sep. 15  2:00 PM  Becker •  W, 61-33     
Sep. 22  5:00 PM  Merchant Marine * •  W, 35-0     
Sep. 29  1:00 PM  Hobart * •  L, 45-35     
Oct. 6  1:00 PM  at Union * •  L, 16-3     
Oct. 20  1:00 PM  at Rochester * •  L, 42-27     
Oct. 27  2:00 PM  RPI * •  L, 21-14 2OT     
Nov. 3  12:00 PM  Susquehanna * •  L, 8-7     
Nov. 10  12:00 PM  at St. Lawrence * •  L, 24-13 

They started 4-0 and lost their last 6.  So, their pre-conference schedule doesn't tell you much about what they will be facing starting next week.  I'll be a believer when I see more.  I'm more concerned about Rochester finally breaking through this season.

- Frank

[dewcrew88]

Worchester Polyechnic 3-0.
The Rev wonders how well they will survive the next two weeks against RPI and Union.

If they beat one or both, this could be the most different season we've seen in years.

Ehhh...NOT SO FAST, My Friend...

Here are WPI's 2007 results (4-6 final standings):

Sep. 1  7:00 PM  Mass-Dartmouth •  W, 49-17     
Sep. 7  7:00 PM  at Worcester State •  W, 40-14     
Sep. 15  2:00 PM  Becker •  W, 61-33     
Sep. 22  5:00 PM  Merchant Marine * •  W, 35-0     
Sep. 29  1:00 PM  Hobart * •  L, 45-35     
Oct. 6  1:00 PM  at Union * •  L, 16-3     
Oct. 20  1:00 PM  at Rochester * •  L, 42-27     
Oct. 27  2:00 PM  RPI * •  L, 21-14 2OT     
Nov. 3  12:00 PM  Susquehanna * •  L, 8-7     
Nov. 10  12:00 PM  at St. Lawrence * •  L, 24-13 

They started 4-0 and lost their last 6.  So, their pre-conference schedule doesn't tell you much about what they will be facing starting next week.  I'll be a believer when I see more.  I'm more concerned about Rochester finally breaking through this season.

- Frank

Doesn't ANYBODY read my ATR column?!   

WPI has won 13 non-conference games in a row, but you see how far that gets them when LL play starts.

[redswarm81]

Hobart wins over Carnegie Mellon (with intentional safety at end to protect win) 21-16

This is a strategy The Rev hasn't quite been able to wrap his mind around.  How does an intentional safety protect the win?  By giving the opponent poorer field position than they would have had if the drive had played itself out naturally?  Yes (at least in part).

It's actually a great call under these exact conditions.  If you attempt a kick in a short backfield scenario, it could be blocked for an instant TD or fall at the 10-yard line or less.  There's also no margin for error if it's a bad or bobbled snap.  So, you'd potentially be handing the other team a tie with the punter not getting the full 15 and a full-house defensive rush from all corners.  Here, you risk your TD lead, but you virtually guarantee, assuming appropriate kickoff coverage, no worse than midfield for the ensuing possession with only three seconds left.  Thus, blah blah blah . . . .  I don't disagree with the philosophy under these specific conditions (very little time left and the punter in a troublesome position).

- Frank

Thanks, Frank.
Very interesting decision by Coach Cragg.  I had never heard of anyone doing this before, but it looks as if it worked like a charm.

I'm with FR, as I have been since I was a high school JV player on an offensively challenged team.  We had scored our only touchdown of the season, and it was late in the fourth quarter as we were preparing to punt from our one yard line.  I urged the coach to let us snap it out of the endzone, and get the free kick from the 20.  He looked at me as if I had a karma of (-77).  We punted successfully, and managed to preserve the 6-0 shutout, but I still think Frank's right, that the prudent thing to do is take the sure kick instead of the anything-can-happen kick.

Is Cragg an awesome name for a football coach, or what?

[redswarm81]

Worchester Polyechnic 3-0.
The Rev wonders how well they will survive the next two weeks against RPI and Union.

If they beat one or both, this could be the most different season we've seen in years.

Ehhh...NOT SO FAST, My Friend...

Here are WPI's 2007 results (4-6 final standings):

They started 4-0 (including 3 non-league games) and lost their last 6.  So, their pre-conference schedule doesn't tell you much about what they will be facing starting next week.  I'll be a believer when I see more.  I'm more concerned about Rochester finally breaking through this season.

- Frank

Doesn't ANYBODY read my ATR column?!   

WPI has won 13 non-conference games in a row, but you see how far that gets them when LL play starts.

Great Caesar's Ghost, Jimmy Olsen!  I did indeed read your column, and made a specific mental note about the Otherneers' non-con sucess.   Refresh my memory: do they take as much heat for scheduling early season patsies as the Originaleers do? 

[Jonny Utah]

Hobart wins over Carnegie Mellon (with intentional safety at end to protect win) 21-16

This is a strategy The Rev hasn't quite been able to wrap his mind around.  How does an intentional safety protect the win?  By giving the opponent poorer field position than they would have had if the drive had played itself out naturally?

It's actually a great call under these exact conditions.  If you attempt a kick in a short backfield scenario, it could be blocked for an instant TD or fall at the 10-yard line or less.  So, you'd potentially be handing the other team a tie with the punter not getting the full 15 and a full-house defensive rush from all corners.  Here, you risk your TD lead, but you virtually guarantee, assuming appropriate kickoff coverage, no worse than midfield for the ensuing possession with only three seconds left.  Thus, one Hail Mary pass was allowed, and Hobart jarred the QB as he threw.  I don't disagree with the philosophy under these specific conditions (very little time left and the punter in a troublesome position).

- Frank

Also if your punter is your average or below average d3 punter that can only punt it 30-40 yards, then the other team gets the ball back on your 30-40, instead of the other 40....

Plus you can sometimes stall an extra 10 seconds or so if you let the QB run around the endozne a little bit.

[mattvsmith]

Here are WPI's 2007 results (4-6 final standings):

Sep. 1  7:00 PM  Mass-Dartmouth •  W, 49-17     
Sep. 7  7:00 PM  at Worcester State •  W, 40-14     
Sep. 15  2:00 PM  Becker •  W, 61-33     
Sep. 22  5:00 PM  Merchant Marine * •  W, 35-0     
Sep. 29  1:00 PM  Hobart * •  L, 45-35     
Oct. 6  1:00 PM  at Union * •  L, 16-3     
Oct. 20  1:00 PM  at Rochester * •  L, 42-27     
Oct. 27  2:00 PM  RPI * •  L, 21-14 2OT     
Nov. 3  12:00 PM  Susquehanna * •  L, 8-7     
Nov. 10  12:00 PM  at St. Lawrence * •  L, 24-13 

They started 4-0 and lost their last 6.  So, their pre-conference schedule doesn't tell you much about what they will be facing starting next week.  I'll be a believer when I see more.  I'm more concerned about Rochester finally breaking through this season.

- Frank

The Rev stands corrected and begs forgiveness for his short-term memory loss.

The Rev thinks Rochester is a respectable team and also wonders when they are going to break out.  The Rev is always a little nervous before the UofR game.  they can be a real spoiler.

[Frank Rossi]

Worchester Polyechnic 3-0.
The Rev wonders how well they will survive the next two weeks against RPI and Union.

If they beat one or both, this could be the most different season we've seen in years.

Ehhh...NOT SO FAST, My Friend...

Here are WPI's 2007 results (4-6 final standings):

Sep. 1  7:00 PM  Mass-Dartmouth •  W, 49-17     
Sep. 7  7:00 PM  at Worcester State •  W, 40-14     
Sep. 15  2:00 PM  Becker •  W, 61-33     
Sep. 22  5:00 PM  Merchant Marine * •  W, 35-0     
Sep. 29  1:00 PM  Hobart * •  L, 45-35     
Oct. 6  1:00 PM  at Union * •  L, 16-3     
Oct. 20  1:00 PM  at Rochester * •  L, 42-27     
Oct. 27  2:00 PM  RPI * •  L, 21-14 2OT     
Nov. 3  12:00 PM  Susquehanna * •  L, 8-7     
Nov. 10  12:00 PM  at St. Lawrence * •  L, 24-13 

They started 4-0 and lost their last 6.  So, their pre-conference schedule doesn't tell you much about what they will be facing starting next week.  I'll be a believer when I see more.  I'm more concerned about Rochester finally breaking through this season.

- Frank

Doesn't ANYBODY read my ATR column?!   

WPI has won 13 non-conference games in a row, but you see how far that gets them when LL play starts.

Read?  Who the hell reads anymore?!  But to answer RedSwarm's question, WPI's geography has a little bit to do with their non-conference schedule.  Because of the school's location in relation to the rest of the Liberty League, WPI doesn't want to travel long distances for the non-conference portion of its schedule (it already does that 3 or 4 times in its conference schedule).  Worcester State is also a rivalry game for WPI, so that one can't come off.  The one plus for WPI is that at least they face a 10-game schedule (3 non-conference games).  I give thumbs up for that fact for reasons I explained ad nauseum in 2007.  The only enhancement that I could ever see happening is WPI dropping either UMass-Dartmouth or Becker and gaining either Coast Guard or Western Connecticut to minimize travel to some extent.

- Frank

[redswarm81]

Doesn't ANYBODY read my ATR column?!   

WPI has won 13 non-conference games in a row, but you see how far that gets them when LL play starts.

Read?  Who the hell reads anymore?!  But to answer RedSwarm's question, WPI's geography has a little bit to do with their non-conference schedule.  Because of the school's location in relation to the rest of the Liberty League, WPI doesn't want to travel long distances for the non-conference portion of its schedule (it already does that 3 or 4 times in its conference schedule).  Worcester State is also a rivalry game for WPI, so that one can't come off.  The one plus for WPI is that at least they face a 10-game schedule (3 non-conference games).  I give thumbs up for that fact for reasons I explained ad nauseum in 2007.  The only enhancement that I could ever see happening is WPI dropping either UMass-Dartmouth or Becker and gaining either Coast Guard or Western Connecticut to minimize travel to some extent.

- Frank

I agree that the WPI geographical issue makes sense--have they so stated in press releases or interviews?  It's a tad ironic that RPI travels to WPI's back yard to play Endicott.

I agree with (Martini &) Rossi, to the extent that a 10 game schedule improves a team's attractiveness for at-large playoff selection.  In that regard, I have for many years encouraged the Originaleers to schedule a marquee non-conference game against a team such as Springfield (whose marquee value is currently lower than its book value) or St. John Fisher (whose current marquee value might be irrationally exuberant).

However, as I discussed ad nauseum several years (and hundreds of karma points) ago, I think a 10 game schedule is the (somewhat arbitrary, I admit) threshold where player safety concerns increase--it is impossible to maintain the level of physical conditioning necessary to play high quality football safely over a loooong season (fact).  Furthermore, add to that a potential 5 week playoff and a two week preseason, and you have guaranteed an academic impact in terms of reduced time available for academics (fact) that (in my opinion) runs contrary to the Division III premise of placing academics ahead of athletics.

Did anybody else catch that wild St. John Fisher - UofR game last night?  I listened to most of the second half, and it was highly entertaining, mostly because UofR kept getting itself in trouble, and coming up with exciting ways to get out of trouble, only to find itself in a new heap of trouble.  It was like "Indiana Jones and the Yellowjackets of Rochester."