FB: Liberty League

[Pat Coleman]

Pat - TGP thinks that Frank's 15 comment is a typo - he meant #25, not #15.

I don't think that's the case. He's already been in and edited the comment once without changing it.

[Frank Rossi]

Pat - TGP thinks that Frank's 15 comment is a typo - he meant #25, not #15.

I meant 15, but it was the point I was making in terms of how high a 10-0 Curry COULD reach this year with a head start if teams above them start to falter.  I was saying that I doubted Curry ever reached #15 (and I should have added, "or anything close to it") at 10-0 last year.  However, the head start this year concerns me, especially since we were discussing a potential second slot for the NEFC last year if Curry had lost to Coast Guard in the title game because of how the national standings were panning out.  If there was a discussion last year when Curry was unranked at 10-0, then imagine what there would be this year with a ranked 10-0 Curry this year (and then a loss in the NEFC title game).

[labart96]

So, TGP thinks WPI's strategy is a sound one.  They are working on building their program but a combo of local presence as well as playing more established programs (Union, RPI, etc).

It may be a sound strategy for WPI. RT is trying to use that to justify RPI's schedule, though, and WPI and RPI are not on the same level right now.

Agreed.  TGP will admit he's happy that Hobart plays teams like CMU and Dickinson instead of Endicott etc.  

[lewdogg11]

So, TGP thinks WPI's strategy is a sound one.  They are working on building their program but a combo of local presence as well as playing more established programs (Union, RPI, etc).

It may be a sound strategy for WPI. RT is trying to use that to justify RPI's schedule, though, and WPI and RPI are not on the same level right now.

Agreed.  TGP will admit he's happy that Hobart plays teams like CMU and Dickinson instead of Endicott etc.  

Someone's gotta do it!  We know RPI is 'comfortable' in their terrible scheduling.  It sucks as someone who wants to see the program to do better than 1 and done in the playoffs.  They can challenge themselves, possibly even lose, and still easily win the LL title and get the Pool A bid.  Nope, instead, we get Endicott and Utica. 

[Frank Rossi]

So, TGP thinks WPI's strategy is a sound one.  They are working on building their program but a combo of local presence as well as playing more established programs (Union, RPI, etc).

It may be a sound strategy for WPI. RT is trying to use that to justify RPI's schedule, though, and WPI and RPI are not on the same level right now.

Agreed.  TGP will admit he's happy that Hobart plays teams like CMU and Dickinson instead of Endicott etc.  

TGP...Here's a question that's bothering me re: Hobart:

I think we've seen over the past couple years scenarios whereby Hobart's 10th game was a difference-maker in what-if scenarios and in reality as to whether they'd receive an at-large bid.  So why in the world did they drop their 10th game?  I know scheduling is usually a few years in advance, but this seems a little disappointing from a LL fan's perspective.  Any insight?

- Frank

[mattvsmith]

Completely undeserving teams don't drift up in our poll. That's what the AFCA poll is for.

BAM!!!

[redswarm81]

First off, I really though dem spicy boyz was going to take off... no such luck so far, how about a transistion phase of 'Curry aka DSB'



Uh-huhuhuhuhuh, huhuhuhuhuhuh you said "DSB"

yeah-yeah-heheheheheheheheh

We former ROTC guys can't use DSB to refer to Curry, especially since "DSB" hits pretty close to the --ahem-- bone for RPI ROTC undergrads.

[lewdogg11]

Now that was uncalled for.

[labart96]

So, TGP thinks WPI's strategy is a sound one.  They are working on building their program but a combo of local presence as well as playing more established programs (Union, RPI, etc).

It may be a sound strategy for WPI. RT is trying to use that to justify RPI's schedule, though, and WPI and RPI are not on the same level right now.

Agreed.  TGP will admit he's happy that Hobart plays teams like CMU and Dickinson instead of Endicott etc.  

Someone's gotta do it!  We know RPI is 'comfortable' in their terrible scheduling.  It sucks as someone who wants to see the program to do better than 1 and done in the playoffs.  They can challenge themselves, possibly even lose, and still easily win the LL title and get the Pool A bid.  Nope, instead, we get Endicott and Utica. 

Hobart caught flack (and justifably so) for scheduling some weaker teams in the early 00's (F&M etc) and dropping teams like Ithaca from their regular season slate.

This is one of the downsides to the AQ in that teams can fall into the easy route of just padding the schedule and knowing that they will only really have 2 or 3 big in conference games a year that make a difference in their post-season fate.

Still, it seems to TGP that with the advent of the East's "rise" (at least from a Pool C standpoint), there is a significant body of evidence that indicates having a better SoS is helpful in post-season consideration (see Hobart's win over then a top 20 alfred team which directly helped them in getting that at-large consideration last year).

Frank - re: your point.  TGP hates that Hobart has a 9 game slate instead of 10.  TGP finds it hard to believe that there wasn't some team available to play on 10/18.  In the event that Hobart loses at least 1 LL game this season, having 3 quality OCC wins could be the difference between an ECAC bowl or an NCAA at-large berth.

TGP can't speak to more than that.  No idea what's going on there in Bristol Gym.  Hanna clearly has shown questionable judgment in the past (see the Hobart Lax thing from last spring), so for whatever reason it's looking like the players are going to lose an opportunity to take the field both this season and next.

[union89]

So, TGP thinks WPI's strategy is a sound one.  They are working on building their program but a combo of local presence as well as playing more established programs (Union, RPI, etc).

It may be a sound strategy for WPI. RT is trying to use that to justify RPI's schedule, though, and WPI and RPI are not on the same level right now.

Agreed.  TGP will admit he's happy that Hobart plays teams like CMU and Dickinson instead of Endicott etc.  

TGP...Here's a question that's bothering me re: Hobart:

I think we've seen over the past couple years scenarios whereby Hobart's 10th game was a difference-maker in what-if scenarios and in reality as to whether they'd receive an at-large bid.  So why in the world did they drop their 10th game?  I know scheduling is usually a few years in advance, but this seems a little disappointing from a LL fan's perspective.  Any insight?

- Frank

Cost.....specifically cost containment for the overall athletic program was Union's reasoning.....could be the same for 'Bart.

[unionfan]

All of this debate reminds unionfan why he likes the d3 setup so much--the polls don't matter.

The path to the playoffs in the LL is clear--win all your league games.  My knock on RPI's schedule is that it doesn't put them in the best position to that.  (Union's is not helpful on that front either--facing a wacko springfield scheme that you won't ever see again is not a good tuneup.)

if you don't take care of your league, then you're just asking to get snubbed in a world of SOS and QOW and other mathematical nonsense that, coupled with a whole lotta opinions, is pretty much monkeys throwing darts at the end of the day...

plus, a weak schedule is just boring for the fans.  unionfan remembers back when union basically scheduled an endicott every week (this was back in the day when hobart and even rpi were endicott-esque) and it was lame.

[Senor RedTackle]

So I am so sorry that I chose to honor my family obligation instead of listening to ITH, but I don't think I missed anything in that particular line of conversation.

a) RT wasnt suggesting that you miss obligations....I was saying it antecdotally b/c there's an archive so you can listen at your liesure
b) you didnt have to be that way about it....jeeeeeeeeezzzzzzzz

[Senor RedTackle]

Completely undeserving teams don't drift up in our poll. That's what the AFCA poll is for.

ZING!!!!

Pat showing love for the college football coachin community.......

[Senor RedTackle]

So, TGP thinks WPI's strategy is a sound one.  They are working on building their program but a combo of local presence as well as playing more established programs (Union, RPI, etc).

It may be a sound strategy for WPI. RT is trying to use that to justify RPI's schedule, though, and WPI and RPI are not on the same level right now.

no...that's just your interpretation of what RT is trying to say...which is that RT isn't convinced that a school needs to schedule a certain caliber of OOC game to learn something about themselves and produce.

Forgive RT for being presumptious.....having played the game in college, RT felt pretty good about his team and himself over the course of a season and never doubted that my team could live up to its potential against a top team if we had a good week of practice, a good gameplan, solid execution..and a little luck. Polls didn't mean much to RT in terms of who RT thought we could or couldn't beat...never did, never will. That's why we put the pads on and play 60 minutes. However RT does rate polls in terms of how much subjectivity are in them...and just doesn't think Curry is as good as their ranking.  RT is pretty sure that anyone who's played the game would share that sentiment. RT will never find it his obligation to justify RPI's, or anyone's for that matter, schedule to anyone. Why should we???  We'll find out quick enough how good a team is in the post season....which is the ultimate guage of a team's talent on a national scale. If we want to talk regionally...ok, great. Curry is probably the best D3 team between Maine and Framingham, MA (but not to Worcester, MA). And then there's several teams between W.NY and NJ that are all capable of knocking eachother off. Clearly, EVERYONE's goal is to be able to take down the D3 standard-bearer...Mount Union.

Here's a simple statement by RT to see who's right using an example based on OOC scheduling....let SJF play MUC this year in an OOC game and RPI can have Utica and Endicott or the Sister's of The Poor...doesn't matter. What matters in 2008 to RT is that he believes that RPI has a better team and will advance farther in the season because the RPI players will find a way to get it done, not because who they did or didn't play OOC.  That's RT's sentiment...just like Frank may have one about Union or TGP may have one about 'Bart.

[lewdogg11]

So, TGP thinks WPI's strategy is a sound one.  They are working on building their program but a combo of local presence as well as playing more established programs (Union, RPI, etc).

It may be a sound strategy for WPI. RT is trying to use that to justify RPI's schedule, though, and WPI and RPI are not on the same level right now.

no...that's just your interpretation of what RT is trying to say...which is that RT isn't convinced that a school needs to schedule a certain caliber of OOC game to learn something about themselves and produce.

Forgive RT for being presumptious.....having played the game in college, RT felt pretty good about his team and himself over the course of a season and never doubted that my team could live up to its potential against a top team if we had a good week of practice, a good gameplan, solid execution..and a little luck. Polls didn't mean much to RT in terms of who RT thought we could or couldn't beat...never did, never will. That's why we put the pads on and play 60 minutes. However RT does rate polls in terms of how much subjectivity are in them...and just doesn't think Curry is as good as their ranking.  RT is pretty sure that anyone who's played the game would share that sentiment. RT will never find it his obligation to justify RPI's, or anyone's for that matter, schedule to anyone. Why should we???  We'll find out quick enough how good a team is in the post season....which is the ultimate guage of a team's talent on a national scale. If we want to talk regionally...ok, great. Curry is probably the best D3 team between Maine and Framingham, MA (but not to Worcester, MA). And then there's several teams between W.NY and NJ that are all capable of knocking eachother off. Clearly, EVERYONE's goal is to be able to take down the D3 standard-bearer...Mount Union.

Here's a simple statement by RT to see who's right using an example based on OOC scheduling....let SJF play MUC this year in an OOC game and RPI can have Utica and Endicott or the Sister's of The Poor...doesn't matter. What matters in 2008 to RT is that he believes that RPI has a better team and will advance farther in the season because the RPI players will find a way to get it done, not because who they did or didn't play OOC.  That's RT's sentiment...just like Frank may have one about Union or TGP may have one about 'Bart.

RT, when you played, RPI was a different program.  They were building.  They were aspiring to be a consistent winning program.  They were trying to finish over .500, win the league, beat Union, and MAYBE, just maybe, get that first playoff bid, and if not, maybe get an ECAC bid and win that game.

RPI should be past that now.  They've been to the playoffs several times.  They have won the league.  They are in the shuffle to be in the playoffs every year.  They SHOULD be in the playoffs every year now.  When are they going to stop living in the past, and start moving towards the next hurdle. 

We can tout 2003 to a pulp.  It was 5 years ago.  It was 1 run.  And not to take AnYTHING at all away from that team, they were excellent, but let's face it, there were some bounces in the right direction that year.(Drawing Curry in round 1(at home because Curry's field wasn't up to NCAA par), Ithaca in a blizzard in which ANYONE could have won, and getting an early lead on a Springfield team that could NOT come from behind because of their offense(Under a minute 80 yards to go for the win, all running plays and no time outs?).  I was at all of those games except for St. John's which I was able to watch on the Internet, and let's face it, even that game could have gone to anyone because it was negative 20 degrees the entire game. 

My point is, at some point, if you want to be considered the best, you have to play and beat the best, consistently.  SJF is considered one of the best right now.  Because they play Mt. Union?  NO!  Because they beat Ithaca, Springfield, Rowan, Union, Hobart, Alfred, Curry, and are IN the mix to get to face Mt. Union every year in the post season. 

RPI in the NCAA playoffs have beaten Curry, Ithaca, and Springfield, all in the same year, and are 3-4 overall.  That tells me, they are good enough to make the playoffs, had 1 good run, and other than that, are a perennial 1 and done as an outsider looking in.  Sure, they have a great ECAC record, and that was great in 1996, but who cares about that now?