FB: Liberty League

[pumkinattack]

Hobart has had a rough start, but wins over Dickinson and CMU (on the road) are still better than anything Alfred has done.  They absolutely I don't think the LL is nearly as strong/talented as 2005, but that can be used to illustrate how in league score comparison doesn't tell much.  Union, Bart and RPI all had a number of crappy league games and still proved to be a very good (better than E8) conference that year.   

I'm just making the point that Alfred was 15th in the country (or something close to that) with a backloaded schedule last year and ended up losing three games down the stretch.  Losing to Ursinus shouldn't necessarily be diminished. 

Hartwick COULD beat RPI or Union, but Rochester's three losses can be deceiving because of who they have played.  Hartwick is effectively 1-1 against solid competition (excluding the NEFC game), but Rochester's easiest game is against Union.  Would Hartwick be any better than 2-2 with Rochester's schedule?  Is there a huge difference between 1 - 3 and 2 - 2, with two close losses? 

We'll know a little more after Bart/Union and Alfred/Wick.  Score analysis never works and I don't know enough about personnel at Ithaca, Fisher, Wick and Alfred to make an educated guess at where they are.  I can tell you that Bart's interior defense is as good as any in the east (Aruck, Faracca, Hager, Sanders), the secondary is inexperienced, but ok so far, receivers are good, TE is very good, QB makes a lot of questionable throws into triple coverage (could've had a couple picked vs. dickinson and thrown 5 in two other games), running game is improving and O-line is experienced and solid.  RPI might have the best QB in NY State, a new O-line, not sure about the D and, it appears, a suspect running game.   

[AUPepBand]

I'm just making the point that Alfred was 15th in the country (or something close to that) with a backloaded schedule last year and ended up losing three games down the stretch.  Losing to Ursinus shouldn't necessarily be diminished. 

Are you talking about 2008 teams or 2007 teams? AU had a 7-0 record and was averaging 40+ points a game when they were justifiably ranked 15th in the country. Hobart denied the Saxons the ball (and the Saxons also gave it away) in last year's game, but were within a TD at both Ithaca and Fisher early in the fourth quarters....

AU lost its record-breaking QB and offensive line, four-year kicking specialist in addition to its leading tackler (injury) from 2007, and Pep looks at 2008 as a rebuilding season, so it really doesn't matter what anyone thinks of his Saxons. AU lost to Ursinus with its freshman QB responsible for TWO turnovers for TDs and the Saxons had EIGHT total turnovers but lost only by a TD.

Pep is hoping that the growth he's seen in the AU squad through its first five games will continue so that the Saxons can give Hartwick, Utica, UR, Ithaca and Fisher some solid competition. Yup, the AU schedule is backloaded, which is why Alfred does not generate any poll votes at mid-season. No worries. Our Saxons will put up a fight to the end and, as Pep's dairy farmer brother might say, let the chips fall where they may....but watch your step!

On Saxon Warriors!

[Jonny Utah]

Hobart has had a rough start, but wins over Dickinson and CMU (on the road) are still better than anything Alfred has done.  They absolutely I don't think the LL is nearly as strong/talented as 2005, but that can be used to illustrate how in league score comparison doesn't tell much.  Union, Bart and RPI all had a number of crappy league games and still proved to be a very good (better than E8) conference that year.   

I'm just making the point that Alfred was 15th in the country (or something close to that) with a backloaded schedule last year and ended up losing three games down the stretch.  Losing to Ursinus shouldn't necessarily be diminished. 

Hartwick COULD beat RPI or Union, but Rochester's three losses can be deceiving because of who they have played.  Hartwick is effectively 1-1 against solid competition (excluding the NEFC game), but Rochester's easiest game is against Union.  Would Hartwick be any better than 2-2 with Rochester's schedule?  Is there a huge difference between 1 - 3 and 2 - 2, with two close losses? 

We'll know a little more after Bart/Union and Alfred/Wick.  Score analysis never works and I don't know enough about personnel at Ithaca, Fisher, Wick and Alfred to make an educated guess at where they are.  I can tell you that Bart's interior defense is as good as any in the east (Aruck, Faracca, Hager, Sanders), the secondary is inexperienced, but ok so far, receivers are good, TE is very good, QB makes a lot of questionable throws into triple coverage (could've had a couple picked vs. dickinson and thrown 5 in two other games), running game is improving and O-line is experienced and solid.  RPI might have the best QB in NY State, a new O-line, not sure about the D and, it appears, a suspect running game.   

You are exactly right about everything you say there.  But I still think your biased for Hobart, just like many of the IC or SJF people are biased towards the E8.  I think you can rank both over the other simply based on thier common opponent (St. Lawrence),  Hey, If I actually had to rank them in specific places, Hobart would be before them because they havent lost, but I wouldnt put Alfred in a different tier.  I mean, Hobart struggled against possibly the worst team in upstate.

[Senor RedTackle]

Sorry to the listeners last night for a couple of times the audio dropped on "In The Huddle"....technical difficulties w/ our providor..we'll work it out next time. Special thanks to the LL Commish and the Guru, Pat Coleman, for dropping by.

Archive at www.blogtalkradio.com/LLrecap

[PBR...]

pbr still laughs LMAO watching this... the regalness of your updo...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4D0555EtAZ4

['gro]

D3Football.com 25 Poll - East Region teams

Rank/Team/Record/Points

13 Delaware Valley 3-1 296

14 Cortland 4-0 288

20 Fisher 3-2 168

NR Ithaca 3-1 42

NR Curry 5-0 36

NR Montclair 4-0 35

NR RPI 4-0 29

NR Hobart 4-0 20

NR Hartwick 2-1 1

[Garnet]

-Lastly, LewDogg, I did the BWW challenge in 2:24 and would have done it faster except I dropped one because it was too cooked hot.  I bit into the middle and burned my teeth.  It was at a ghetto one in Port Chester, NY and they didn't have the t-shirt and almost didn't have polaroid film.  I used to work just over the CT border and I actually like the blazin.  A couple of my cohorts would go on $0.50 boneless Thursdays and I'd order 20 blazin boneless nuggets.  

So it was the location that sucks not the chain itself? Garnet's awful experience came at this vey same Port Chester, NY location. 

[dlippiel]

D3Football.com 25 Poll - East Region teams

Rank/Team/Record/Points

13 Delaware Valley 3-1 296

14 Cortland 4-0 288

20 Fisher 3-2 168

NR Ithaca 3-1 42

NR Curry 5-0 36

NR Montclair 4-0 35

NR RPI 4-0 29

NR Hobart 4-0 20

NR Hartwick 2-1 1

I guess Hartwick has to be in there now after this weekend? To me this says that SJF is just not that good. Or at least as good as some of us may have thought.

[PBR...]

D3Football.com 25 Poll - East Region teams

Rank/Team/Record/Points

13 Delaware Valley 3-1 296

14 Cortland 4-0 288

20 Fisher 3-2 168

NR Ithaca 3-1 42

NR Curry 5-0 36

NR Montclair 4-0 35

NR RPI 4-0 29

NR Hobart 4-0 20

NR Hartwick 2-1 1

I guess Hartwick has to be in there now after this weekend? To me this says that SJF is just not that good. Or at least as good as some of us may have thought.

dont let the boyz from the E8 see that especially the sjf posters....would be like burning the bible to them uttering such words

[Senor RedTackle]

20 Fisher 3-2 168

O V E R R A T E D

[dewcrew88]

D3Football.com 25 Poll - East Region teams

Rank/Team/Record/Points

13 Delaware Valley 3-1 296

14 Cortland 4-0 288

20 Fisher 3-2 168

NR Ithaca 3-1 42

NR Curry 5-0 36

NR Montclair 4-0 35

NR RPI 4-0 29

NR Hobart 4-0 20

NR Hartwick 2-1 1

I guess Hartwick has to be in there now after this weekend? To me this says that SJF is just not that good. Or at least as good as some of us may have thought.

Well, the fact they have 1 point means one voter gave them a 25th place vote.
I think SJF has been higher on voters lists, and they beat IC by 31... If I was a voter, which I'm not, I couldn't knock down Fisher a lot for their loss to MUC, but they seem to be in the right place after the loss to Hartwick.

[superman57]

D3Football.com 25 Poll - East Region teams

Rank/Team/Record/Points

13 Delaware Valley 3-1 296

14 Cortland 4-0 288

20 Fisher 3-2 168

NR Ithaca 3-1 42

NR Curry 5-0 36

NR Montclair 4-0 35

NR RPI 4-0 29

NR Hobart 4-0 20

NR Hartwick 2-1 1

I guess Hartwick has to be in there now after this weekend? To me this says that SJF is just not that good. Or at least as good as some of us may have thought.

Well, the fact they have 1 point means one voter gave them a 25th place vote.
I think SJF has been higher on voters lists, and they beat IC by 31... If I was a voter, which I'm not, I couldn't knock down Fisher a lot for their loss to MUC, but they seem to be in the right place after the loss to Hartwick.

Fisher Notoriusly loses one bad game a year... and then they bounce back and will win big the rest of the season

[Jonny Utah]

D3Football.com 25 Poll - East Region teams

Rank/Team/Record/Points

13 Delaware Valley 3-1 296

14 Cortland 4-0 288

20 Fisher 3-2 168

NR Ithaca 3-1 42

NR Curry 5-0 36

NR Montclair 4-0 35

NR RPI 4-0 29

NR Hobart 4-0 20

NR Hartwick 2-1 1

I guess Hartwick has to be in there now after this weekend? To me this says that SJF is just not that good. Or at least as good as some of us may have thought.

Wouldnt the opposite be true?  Or at least what the pollsters think anyway.  To lose twice and still be ranked above 2 undefeated LL teams?

[labart96]

D3Football.com 25 Poll - East Region teams

Rank/Team/Record/Points

13 Delaware Valley 3-1 296

14 Cortland 4-0 288

20 Fisher 3-2 168

NR Ithaca 3-1 42

NR Curry 5-0 36

NR Montclair 4-0 35

NR RPI 4-0 29

NR Hobart 4-0 20

NR Hartwick 2-1 1

I guess Hartwick has to be in there now after this weekend? To me this says that SJF is just not that good. Or at least as good as some of us may have thought.

Wouldnt the opposite be true?  Or at least what the pollsters think anyway.  To lose twice and still be ranked above 2 undefeated LL teams?

SJF is not going to get dinged by the pollsters for losing to MUC in Wk 1 and this is the second year in a row they've lost to Hartwick who - regardless what your opinion of them - is a defending league champ and NCAA play-off participant from the prior year.

IMO Hobart and RPI aren't getting any poll kudos based on their one and done NCAA appearances from last year, as well as the fact they haven't really played/beaten anyone of significance yet (although TGP thinks Hobart would be in discussions if they had stomped SUS and SLU b/c Dickinson and CMU are quality wins - Hobart has just not looked all that impressive the last 2 weeks, hence the lack of consideration from a pollster standpoint - which TGP think is justified btw).

[pumkinattack]

AUPep, I didn't mean to take any particular team and denigrate them.  I wish we kept AU on the schedule, its a good game generally every year.  Plus it beefs up our engineering cred (RPI, Wpi, Mellon, AU).  I was simply commenting on how tiers can even be created at this point.  My original comment was isn't it early to put AU in the top tier (and Hartwick for that matter, you can't ignore giving up 69 points in a single game).  I'd only have a couple of teams in the top tier right now because none have exemplified excellence at this point.  

JU's comment was that Rochester is in a lower tier because they have three losses, but they've played a schedule roughly equivalent of playing three rounds in the east region of the playoffs (assuming Union is roughly equal to Curry, its easily conceivable that RPI, SJF and Case could represent 2nd, 3rd and 4th round quality opponents in the East).  

Alfred could be better than Rochester, but they both lost great offensive players, played pretty even the last two years in ECAC games and both beat top teams (Fisher in 06, Rochester the last two years).  So it seems at this point we don't know about anyone in the east except Fisher (I think), Del Valley (even with the Iona loss) and maybe Cortland.  

Right now I'd tier it:  And I expect this to be very fluid over the next few weeks.  
Tier 1: Fisher, Del Valley, Cortland

Tier 2: Ithaca, RPI, Hobart, Montclair, Albright (not that sure, kind of a guess)

Tier 3:  Hartwick (69pts in one game), Rochester, WPI, Alfred, Union (maybe, could drop), Lyco, Kean, Rowan

Tier 4:  Everyone else

I think the winner of AU/Hartwick moves up and the other stays the same.  If they are both tier one, then you could maintain both at tier one with two losses early.  I suppose I may be biased, but I noticed four E8 teams in your tier one and it struck me as worth questioning.  Is it so hard with the current body of work to think that Rochester is inferior to AU or Wick?    

Garnet,  its definitely location specific because the one at the mall in Milford, CT is better.  If you go back to Port Chester and can call ahead, its better from a service perspective.