FB: Liberty League

[Frank Rossi]

Frank,

As much as I would like to participate, I really don't think it can be done logistically.  With a three year old and a three month old at home, I don't even make it to the local high school games let alone dring three hours to Schenectady.

Speaking of driving to the Capital District,  I may not be attending the Shoes game this year due to the aforementioned responsibilities.

No 'gro?   No Garnet?  WTF?!

Roll Call:  Who's actually coming to the Shooz at '86 on 11/1?

[pumkinattack]

Frank,  I was just making the point for neutral LL people to think about (mostly RPI and Union, to the extent their hatred for each other and Bart can be put aside for the betterment of the league in thought only).  So, do RPI and Union supporters want Bart or WPI to win in two weeks?  I think that was what I was driving at.  RPI is thrown in because they are the only other team that can finish with one loss, but even that won't matter until after the WPI-Bart game.  

Susquehanna will be physical, so RPI should win, but I don't know if they've played a team this physical so far.  Not saying RPI can't handle it, but it will present a new challenge for them.

On Hobaica, I like him and he's tough, but without a power back or FB who carries the ball, he's rendered much less effective.  Both RB's are small, quick and shifty, but its too risky to rely on outside runs to get short yardage.  One big loss, no one probably knows or realized, is that Bart had a very good backup FB last year by the name of Rob Nieves (Soph out of Rye, NY).  He was a running FB (broke a couple of big runs last year backing up Spinella) who transferred to Cuse.  I don't know if they remain on the squad, but Nieves and former DE Brandon Card were both on Cuse's roster earlier in the year.  Cuse may suck, but that would still have to be considered a loss for Bart.  

[union89]

Frank,

As much as I would like to participate, I really don't think it can be done logistically.  With a three year old and a three month old at home, I don't even make it to the local high school games let alone dring three hours to Schenectady.

Speaking of driving to the Capital District,  I may not be attending the Shoes game this year due to the aforementioned responsibilities.

No 'gro?   No Garnet?  WTF?!

Roll Call:  Who's actually coming to the Shooz at '86 on 11/1?

Shooz '08 will be U89's first MIA since the Shoozapalooza inception....U89 has a prior engagement and will have already seen 3 Union games in '08 (Muhlenburg, WPI & MMA).

[Frank Rossi]

Frank,  I was just making the point for neutral LL people to think about (mostly RPI and Union, to the extent their hatred for each other and Bart can be put aside for the betterment of the league in thought only).  So, do RPI and Union supporters want Bart or WPI to win in two weeks?  I think that was what I was driving at.  RPI is thrown in because they are the only other team that can finish with one loss, but even that won't matter until after the WPI-Bart game.  

Susquehanna will be physical, so RPI should win, but I don't know if they've played a team this physical so far.  Not saying RPI can't handle it, but it will present a new challenge for them.

On Hobaica, I like him and he's tough, but without a power back or FB who carries the ball, he's rendered much less effective.  Both RB's are small, quick and shifty, but its too risky to rely on outside runs to get short yardage.  One big loss, no one probably knows or realized, is that Bart had a very good backup FB last year by the name of Rob Nieves (Soph out of Rye, NY).  He was a running FB (broke a couple of big runs last year backing up Spinella) who transferred to Cuse.  I don't know if they remain on the squad, but Nieves and former DE Brandon Card were both on Cuse's roster earlier in the year.  Cuse may suck, but that would still have to be considered a loss for Bart.  

Gotcha.  Well, I feel a little closer to WPI these days after some great interviews with Coach Zaloom, Justin Wells and Matt Boudreau on "In the HuddLLe" -- so from a sentimental point of view, I'd love to see WPI go 9-1 at this point.  What a great story it would be.  It's no slight on Hobart from me (I think Hobart's LL success over the past five years has been phenominal). I just like the story.

[Frank Rossi]

Frank,

As much as I would like to participate, I really don't think it can be done logistically.  With a three year old and a three month old at home, I don't even make it to the local high school games let alone dring three hours to Schenectady.

Speaking of driving to the Capital District,  I may not be attending the Shoes game this year due to the aforementioned responsibilities.

No 'gro?   No Garnet?  WTF?!

Roll Call:  Who's actually coming to the Shooz at '86 on 11/1?

Shooz '08 will be U89's first MIA since the Shoozapalooza inception....U89 has a prior engagement and will have already seen 3 Union games in '08 (Muhlenburg, WPI & MMA).

I'll kinda sorta miss ya, 89.    Maybe I am a masochist after all.

[union89]

Frank,

As much as I would like to participate, I really don't think it can be done logistically.  With a three year old and a three month old at home, I don't even make it to the local high school games let alone dring three hours to Schenectady.

Speaking of driving to the Capital District,  I may not be attending the Shoes game this year due to the aforementioned responsibilities.

No 'gro?   No Garnet?  WTF?!

Roll Call:  Who's actually coming to the Shooz at '86 on 11/1?

Shooz '08 will be U89's first MIA since the Shoozapalooza inception....U89 has a prior engagement and will have already seen 3 Union games in '08 (Muhlenburg, WPI & MMA).

I'll kinda sorta miss ya, 89.    Maybe I am a masochist after all.

That's cool....U89 sees that you have now taken up your rhetoric with PG & Utah.

U89 is kind of surprised Frank and RS81 have not taken up a debate together......talk about mind numbing!!

[dewcrew88]

wait... why is a 7-3 fisher squad out... if in reality we would be looking at a 7-1 fisher squad who owns a blow out win vs. Ithaca...

and we are not calling wick's win a fluke... but you look at scores... Ithaca Dominated Wick, Fisher Dominated Ithaca, Wick beat Fisher.... if this was a multiple choice question where what is different than the others the answer is C

Because the tiebreaker garbage would get all the way to the minutiae, and if all teams win out, I think Fisher might be out in that scenario. Maybe Utica can beat one of those teams and this conversation is moot. 

[Jonny Utah]

Heres Frank putting words in my mouth again.  Let me be real clear this time since I will actually take more time to write this.

1) Frank: "JU's been defending the tiebreaker, conceivably because Ithaca stands to benefit from the tiebreaker....."

Show me where I ever defended the tiebreaker!  Show me! All I said was this....

"The funny thing is that even though the E8 tie-breaker criteria might not make that much sense, it actually helps them in the sense that better teams who end up 2nd (and third last year) still make it too the playoffs.  Teams from the E8 might not make the playoffs if the most deserving team actually won the pool A bid."

Does that sound like I'm defending the tie-breaker?  I even said that it might not make that much sense!  I'm simply pointing out the fact that it may have helped the E8 last year and might do so this year. 

Yes.  It does.

2) Frank: "JU went ballistic that Pat had Hartwick in there but Ithaca just below the fold."

And did I really go balistic when Pat had Hartwick in there?  Or did you go balistic trying to find more words to put in my mouth.  

"So you think Hartwick is better than Ithaca?"

Wow, that's balistic.  I even explained why I would have Ithaca ranked higher than Hartwick.  And I'm in the majority of what these other pollsters think anyway!  

Perhaps the exchange between you and Pat is in your short-term memory?  That was a little testy, if I remember correctly -- where you were talking about looking at halves of games, etc.?  

3) Frank: "JU believes to break the tie, we need to look at the quarter-by-quarter scores of games."

Where did I ever say we needed to look at quarter to quarter scores to break ties?  Show me!  All I said is that you can tell a lot from a team or game or score by actually watching them and analyzing what may have happened in that game.  Nowhere did I ever say tiebreakers should be broken by looking at quarter to quarter scores.

That entire quarter-by-quarter paragraph I wrote in the post back to Lyco was called HYPERBOLE through SARCASM.  I took your point (that we gotta look at halftime performance to truly understand a game) and stretched it to play on how ridiculous I think the point is at the end of the day.  So, if you prefer, without sarcasm now, you seem to be advocating a half-by-half review of scores (you've alluded to halftimes more than once over the past couple days).  

Knowing your background, you reading comprehension must be at a very high level.  I suggest you start using it.  Its seems to me that you have much more of an inferiority regarding the LL than I have a bias towards the E8.  It was you after all you said the E8 looks to be very mediocre after that SJF loss to Hartwick, instead of Hartwick possibly having a good team.

Well, I appreciate the faith you have in me.  I also said that Hartwick analysis was going to really depend on how they did from that point forward -- and thus, analysis of the E8 as a whole.  The win against Alfred helps Hartwick's resume, no doubt... although I'm not sure that it helps the E8 in the longrun of the season to have Alfred potentially out of playoff contention.  Losses are mounting and two bids are becoming a stretch for the E8.

Anyway, JU, I've been taking you to task here and on the E8 because I think you might have some good arguments somewhere, but you're not using your best support for those arguments -- I don't fully disagree with everything you're saying in all cases, but I cringe sometimes at the Ithaca spin you start putting on everything.  I used to do that with Union, I guess -- and people dinged my credibility because of it (U89 still does, apparently...  Kidding, U89).  I advocate fans taking a step back and looking at the big picture -- and hope you can start doing the same thing here.  And oh, by the way... See next post...

Fair enough.  But I still can't see how you thought I was defending the E8 tiebreaker system.  Don't you think it helped the E8 get an extra team into the playoffs?

[Knightstalker]

TOTD, special attention needs to be paid to the thirteenth, good day for a "slip".

[Frank Rossi]

Fair enough.  But I still can't see how you thought I was defending the E8 tiebreaker system.  Don't you think it helped the E8 get an extra team into the playoffs?

How?!  Hartwick won the E8 in a two-way tie and won the head-to-head against SJF last year.  There was no three-way tie to decide in 2007.

[pg04]

Maybe this was the misconception the whole time...

[mattvsmith]

The Rev has fully recovered from this weekend and has decided that there is now a clear hierarchy of Hobart posters:

TGP - thorough analysis
Pumpkin Attack - thoughtful questions
The Rev - snap case.  In need of psycho-pharmaceuticals

Now that The Rev is unwound and unbent, The Rev needs to give props to Union D for shutting down Hobaica, and to Union O Line for opening gaps throughout the entire second half.

The Rev is still cheezed off by the day-long 4-and-short, missed field goal, and missed opportunity in the red zone debacles.  The Rev has to stop here because he can feel his blood pressure rising just thinking about it.

Even if Hobart ends the season with only 1-2 losses, at this point in the season, it seems like it would be tough to get a pool C bid.  However, a couple-three more games into the season, and the pool of pool C candidates should be much much smaller.  Sure, there is the possibility for an RPI meltdown, but The Rev reckons they look like Pool A material, and so is going on the assumption that they take it all the way.

  Looking forward to Frank the Tanks breakdown.

[Frank Rossi]

Maybe this was the misconception the whole time...

Possibly, but I'm not even the one with a team in the E8 fight!

[pumkinattack]

Rev,

  You're not overreacting, even my wife was pissed watching it on a computer screen and she didn't even go to Hobart (though I've taken her up to Geneva for a number of Football and Lax games over the past five years, I also took her to my five year reunion a couple of years ago which was probably not the best move if you've ever been to a reunion). 

  I'm personally looking forward to seeing them live for the first time this year at Kings Point.  May not tell me much if KP is as they have been historically.  The last two games there the KP QB looked like he had ribeye tied to his body and a pack of wolves chasing him all day.  On second thought, maybe you should fly east to see them play MM each year. 
 

[Knightstalker]

NFL Cheerleaders for Week 6.