FB: Liberty League

[Jonny Utah]

Perhaps Union should refuse to play in the post season if an alumnus thinks that the team might lose or suffer a letdown.     [/end sarcasm]

Despite your efforts to convince me otherwise, I remain skeptical that any team wants to win less than its opponents.

Why branch that off my response??  I'm not the one suggesting what you stated.  I actually agree with you.

I haven't yet ruled on your earlier objection, counselor.  Sit down. 

Obviously, YOU are not the alumnus advocating on behalf of those who don't want to play football.  Of course we agree.  99 out of every 100 football players agree with you.  I don't understand why that 100th player--including Union's once-starting tailback--wouldn't want to play.

When I said "Despite your efforts to convince me otherwise," I was using the "royal you."

Back then, Union was pretty accustomed to going to the NCAA's (a Stagg Bowl loss followed by 2 OT losses to Ithaca).  If you are on the fence and hopeful of an NCAA bid, can't you see why an ECAC bid would be a letdown?  I voted to play the game, but I can certainly see how getting an invite to an ECAC game on Sunday night when you were hoping for an invite to the big dance is a letdown.

Keep in mind, back then there were no AQ's....16 bids, pretty much all at large...

I guess I--and every other player I've ever met--have a different competitive spirit than your tailback had.  I can't imagine any of my teammates saying "if we don't get the NCAA bid, I don't want to play another game."  Non-starters might be a different story, but players want to play.

I don't really understand what being "on the fence" would have to do with it.  If I were on a good team, I'd REALLY want to play another game.

RS its not just the game, its everything that it built up into the games and season in general.  Im going to bet this week is a very fun week for the Union and RPI football teams.  These two teams know how big this game is going to be for both sides.  For both teams, its a chance to play in front of huge crowds and play in an atmosphere that every player loves to play in.  For RPI, this game will have a direct result on whether or not they might make the playoffs (they probably wont make it if they lose to Unioin and Hobart).  For Union, a win here keeps them alive if a few other things happen (that I don't think are that far fetched, Hobart beating RPI, Hobart losing to Rochester, and Hobart beating WPI would put Union in with a Union win versus RPI).  In the end the game means something.

Althought I don't have the nescac frame of mind, I can understand why those teams want to do it and in the end its their choice.  But for someone like me that wanted to be the best in the country, the ECAC game took on a different meaning.  I was fired up because I wanted to beat a team from Massachusetts and prove that an 10-0 NEFC team didn't match up with upstate teams.  The coaching staff was also in it 100%.  But I'm not going to lie, there was a different feeling about that game, and in the practices going into that game.  Winning it didn't get us any closer to a national championship.  It's not easy to focus on a game that is a scrimmage for all intents and purpuses.  I gave 100% in the game and have no regrets and Im glad we played in it.

[lewdogg11]

Does anyone think that playing in an ECAC game when the playoff field was 16 teams was a lot more likely for pissed off let down teams to not want to show up than it is now?  I mean, these days, MOST teams know if they are going to make the playoffs by the last whistle of the last game.  

I can understand thinking you have a shot at the tournament, like RPI did in 1999 after losing the opener in OT, then running the table and getting snubbed by Cortland to make the 16 team tournament.  Fortunately, RPI had never made the tournament at that point, so an ECAC game was still pretty exciting, although a letdown.  But I could see a perennial tournament team being pissed and not wanting to play that ECAC game.

However, I think it is a different story now.  With the expanded field and the parity in the region, I think there is a lot of interest and excitement in playing that extra game against a team you normally wouldn't play.  I mean, if you play a team you already played, that sucks, but to have the opportunity to smack up Cortland and SJF in the postseason, albeit ECAC, there is excitement and it SHOULD hold some water in weighing where your team is at on the big scale.  

It might be ignored by the pollsters, as most obvious signs are, but in the past, I always thought Cortland/Ithaca were a big step above RPI as a program in general, and I thought RPI might take a beating by Corltand, until the ECAC game of 2006 when RPI won 26-7.  Yeah, it was 2 years ago, but that Cortland team had 1 loss all year, and it was to Rowan in OT.  It shows that the teams are probably a lot closer on the field than most think...

The biggest differece is...their schedule...and in this case, Cortland wins.  Not that they've beaten the best, they've just beaten better, more frequently...so far...

[redswarm81]

Perhaps Union should refuse to play in the post season if an alumnus thinks that the team might lose or suffer a letdown.     [/end sarcasm]

Despite your efforts to convince me otherwise, I remain skeptical that any team wants to win less than its opponents.

Why branch that off my response??  I'm not the one suggesting what you stated.  I actually agree with you.

I haven't yet ruled on your earlier objection, counselor.  Sit down. 

Obviously, YOU are not the alumnus advocating on behalf of those who don't want to play football.  Of course we agree.  99 out of every 100 football players agree with you.  I don't understand why that 100th player--including Union's once-starting tailback--wouldn't want to play.

When I said "Despite your efforts to convince me otherwise," I was using the "royal you."

Back then, Union was pretty accustomed to going to the NCAA's (a Stagg Bowl loss followed by 2 OT losses to Ithaca).  If you are on the fence and hopeful of an NCAA bid, can't you see why an ECAC bid would be a letdown?  I voted to play the game, but I can certainly see how getting an invite to an ECAC game on Sunday night when you were hoping for an invite to the big dance is a letdown.

Keep in mind, back then there were no AQ's....16 bids, pretty much all at large...

I guess I--and every other player I've ever met--have a different competitive spirit than your tailback had.  I can't imagine any of my teammates saying "if we don't get the NCAA bid, I don't want to play another game."  Non-starters might be a different story, but players want to play.

I don't really understand what being "on the fence" would have to do with it.  If I were on a good team, I'd REALLY want to play another game.

RS its not just the game, its everything that it built up into the games and season in general.  Im going to bet this week is a very fun week for the Union and RPI football teams.  These two teams know how big this game is going to be for both sides.  For both teams, its a chance to play in front of huge crowds and play in an atmosphere that every player loves to play in.  For RPI, this game will have a direct result on whether or not they might make the playoffs (they probably wont make it if they lose to Unioin and Hobart).  For Union, a win here keeps them alive if a few other things happen (that I don't think are that far fetched, Hobart beating RPI, Hobart losing to Rochester, and Hobart beating WPI would put Union in with a Union win versus RPI).  In the end the game means something.

Althought I don't have the nescac frame of mind, I can understand why those teams want to do it and in the end its their choice.  But for someone like me that wanted to be the best in the country, the ECAC game took on a different meaning.  I was fired up because I wanted to beat a team from Massachusetts and prove that an 10-0 NEFC team didn't match up with upstate teams.  The coaching staff was also in it 100%.  But I'm not going to lie, there was a different feeling about that game, and in the practices going into that game.  Winning it didn't get us any closer to a national championship.  It's not easy to focus on a game that is a scrimmage for all intents and purpuses.  I gave 100% in the game and have no regrets and Im glad we played in it.

You didn't mail it in.  Good for you.  I didn't think you would mail it in.  I knew you wanted to play and win, and in that respect I think you're a lot like 99% or more of all players.

[Jonny Utah]

Does anyone think that playing in an ECAC game when the playoff field was 16 teams was a lot more likely for pissed off let down teams to not want to show up than it is now?  I mean, these days, MOST teams know if they are going to make the playoffs by the last whistle of the last game.  

I can understand thinking you have a shot at the tournament, like RPI did in 1999 after losing the opener in OT, then running the table and getting snubbed by Cortland to make the 16 team tournament.  Fortunately, RPI had never made the tournament at that point, so an ECAC game was still pretty exciting, although a letdown.  But I could see a perennial tournament team being pissed and not wanting to play that ECAC game.

However, I think it is a different story now.  With the expanded field and the parity in the region, I think there is a lot of interest and excitement in playing that extra game against a team you normally wouldn't play.  I mean, if you play a team you already played, that sucks, but to have the opportunity to smack up Cortland and SJF in the postseason, albeit ECAC, there is excitement and it SHOULD hold some water in weighing where your team is at on the big scale.  

It might be ignored by the pollsters, as most obvious signs are, but in the past, I always thought Cortland/Ithaca were a big step above RPI as a program in general, and I thought RPI might take a beating by Corltand, until the ECAC game of 2006 when RPI won 26-7.  Yeah, it was 2 years ago, but that Cortland team had 1 loss all year, and it was to Rowan in OT.  It shows that the teams are probably a lot closer on the field than most think...

The biggest differece is...their schedule...and in this case, Cortland wins.  Not that they've beaten the best, they've just beaten better, more frequently...so far...

LD I don't remember the specifics of 2006, but looking at Cortlands schedule that year it looks like they might have been the team who didnt know if they were going to make the playoffs at the last whistle of the last game.  I actually saw them play that year and I didn't think they were that good.  But that also looks like a year to me where the top team in the east (SJF) was a lot better than all the other east teams (except for maybe Springfield).

I agree though that most teams know now that they might not make the playoffs and should hope for that extra game. 

[Reno Hightower]

Perhaps Union should refuse to play in the post season if an alumnus thinks that the team might lose or suffer a letdown.     [/end sarcasm]

Despite your efforts to convince me otherwise, I remain skeptical that any team wants to win less than its opponents.

Why branch that off my response??  I'm not the one suggesting what you stated.  I actually agree with you.

I haven't yet ruled on your earlier objection, counselor.  Sit down. 

Obviously, YOU are not the alumnus advocating on behalf of those who don't want to play football.  Of course we agree.  99 out of every 100 football players agree with you.  I don't understand why that 100th player--including Union's once-starting tailback--wouldn't want to play.

When I said "Despite your efforts to convince me otherwise," I was using the "royal you."

Back then, Union was pretty accustomed to going to the NCAA's (a Stagg Bowl loss followed by 2 OT losses to Ithaca).  If you are on the fence and hopeful of an NCAA bid, can't you see why an ECAC bid would be a letdown?  I voted to play the game, but I can certainly see how getting an invite to an ECAC game on Sunday night when you were hoping for an invite to the big dance is a letdown.

Keep in mind, back then there were no AQ's....16 bids, pretty much all at large...

I guess I--and every other player I've ever met--have a different competitive spirit than your tailback had.  I can't imagine any of my teammates saying "if we don't get the NCAA bid, I don't want to play another game."  Non-starters might be a different story, but players want to play.

I don't really understand what being "on the fence" would have to do with it.  If I were on a good team, I'd REALLY want to play another game.

Also, playing in a game against a quality opponent can be a great stepping stone into the next season. Win or lose.

[PBR...]

dig it the snowflakes are supposed to fly at pbr's house today...already snowing nicely right above pbr

PBR...any chance we are playing tonight?

doubt it...right now its snowing like a big dawg at pbr's house...complete white out. even snowing here in princeton, nj right now....crazy they may not play to thursday as snow showers and heavy wind and wind chills called for tomorrow.pbr is so p.o. at bud selig right now....

selig has lost all credibility in the players and fans eyes....the game should of never really started if selig had a backbone and stood up to fox as well as the teams. he is trying to blame the meterologists when in fact he got updated weather reports at 4pm and 6pm saying you will get heavy rains and was suggested to either move the start time up (which fox balked at) or cancel it (which fox balked at). he is also hanging out the field crew who he said "they told us the field was o.k." as per the head field crew manager it was not our call to make we were told that this is strictly mlb's call on whether to continue to play. selig was down on the field between innings and told them to go quick dry the field as best they could. lastly to not allow the phillies the same oppourtunity the rays had by letting them bat in the bottom of the inning is complete bias. sure possibly it seemed to mlb that then it seemed like a good time to call the game as it was tied but they gave a HUGE advantage to the rays now that the next time they play the rays will have a dry mound and field to play in. a minimum the phils should of been allowed the same oppourtunity the rays were afforded. selig and mlb are a joke and need to grow a spine and stand up to fox and really control the game no outside forces. Minimum the game should of been called after 3 innings and really not even started. But a total disgrace to allow the 6th inning to be played then not allow the phils the same advantage.

[Jonny Utah]

dig it the snowflakes are supposed to fly at pbr's house today...already snowing nicely right above pbr

PBR...any chance we are playing tonight?

doubt it...right now its snowing like a big dawg at pbr's house...complete white out. even snowing here in princeton, nj right now....crazy they may not play to thursday as snow showers and heavy wind and wind chills called for tomorrow.pbr is so p.o. at bud selig right now....

selig has lost all credibility in the players and fans eyes....the game should of never really started if selig had a backbone and stood up to fox as well as the teams. he is trying to blame the meterologists when in fact he got updated weather reports at 4pm and 6pm saying you will get heavy rains and was suggested to either move the start time up (which fox balked at) or cancel it (which fox balked at). he is also hanging out the field crew who he said "they told us the field was o.k." as per the head field crew manager it was not our call to make we were told that this is strictly mlb's call on whether to continue to play. selig was down on the field between innings and told them to go quick dry the field as best they could. lastly to not allow the phillies the same oppourtunity the rays had by letting them bat in the bottom of the inning is complete bias. sure possibly it seemed to mlb that then it seemed like a good time to call the game as it was tied but they gave a HUGE advantage to the rays now that the next time they play the rays will have a dry mound and field to play in. a minimum the phils should of been allowed the same oppourtunity the rays were afforded. selig and mlb are a joke and need to grow a spine and stand up to fox and really control the game no outside forces. Minimum the game should of been called after 3 innings and really not even started. But a total disgrace to allow the 6th inning to be played then not allow the phils the same advantage.

I think MLB should at least try once and see what the ratings would be if you started the games at 5pm eastern time.  I still have yet to watch a pitch of this WS.

[Pat Coleman]

I didn't say I was going to list 5 teams, I told you to look at 5 teams.  It was a trick and you failed smartass.

[Pat Coleman]

But a total disgrace to allow the 6th inning to be played then not allow the phils the same advantage.

Why? They wouldn't have called the deciding game of the World Series after six innings even if the Phillies had taken the lead.

[redswarm81]

dig it the snowflakes are supposed to fly at pbr's house today...already snowing nicely right above pbr

PBR...any chance we are playing tonight?

doubt it...right now its snowing like a big dawg at pbr's house...complete white out. even snowing here in princeton, nj right now....crazy they may not play to thursday as snow showers and heavy wind and wind chills called for tomorrow.pbr is so p.o. at bud selig right now....

selig has lost all credibility in the players and fans eyes....the game should of never really started if selig had a backbone and stood up to fox as well as the teams. he is trying to blame the meterologists when in fact he got updated weather reports at 4pm and 6pm saying you will get heavy rains and was suggested to either move the start time up (which fox balked at) or cancel it (which fox balked at). he is also hanging out the field crew who he said "they told us the field was o.k." as per the head field crew manager it was not our call to make we were told that this is strictly mlb's call on whether to continue to play. selig was down on the field between innings and told them to go quick dry the field as best they could. lastly to not allow the phillies the same oppourtunity the rays had by letting them bat in the bottom of the inning is complete bias. sure possibly it seemed to mlb that then it seemed like a good time to call the game as it was tied but they gave a HUGE advantage to the rays now that the next time they play the rays will have a dry mound and field to play in. a minimum the phils should of been allowed the same oppourtunity the rays were afforded. selig and mlb are a joke and need to grow a spine and stand up to fox and really control the game no outside forces. Minimum the game should of been called after 3 innings and really not even started. But a total disgrace to allow the 6th inning to be played then not allow the phils the same advantage.

I encourage piling on Bud Selig, the source of all the world's ills.  What a retard.  What an ultramaroon.  What an embezzle.  What a gullibull.

[PBR...]

But a total disgrace to allow the 6th inning to be played then not allow the phils the same advantage.

Why? They wouldn't have called the deciding game of the World Series after six innings even if the Phillies had taken the lead.

has nothing to do w/ calling the game. by playing that 1/2 of an inning they gave a HUGE advantage to the rays...it was absolutely  pouring, hamels was forced to stand around for over 10 minutes w/o throwing 1 warmup pitch while they tried to dry the field. then they call the game after they tie it up. (may have seemed convenient to selig) as hamels stated it was raining so hard he could only throw a fast ball the ball was so wet he couldnt throw his breaking ball or change up his out pitches. let alone the footing on the mound. BUT no gripes if they then make the rays pitch and play in those conditions in the bottom half, then call the game. but now the rays get a dry mound and field to go against the phils whenever the game is resumed. you cant tell me rollins a gold glove shortstop drops that ball in normal conditions can you? he looked like he was in pee wee trying to field a tee ball pop up.  Question what if the rays scored 10 runs in those conditions then they decided to call the game would that been fair then? then the classic changing of the rule that NO ONE knew where they normally would of gone back to the top of the inning but a rule change last year that was never announced will now allow that run to be counted. its like backyard baseball making rules up as you go. MAKE NO MISTAKE pbr doesnt want a championship on a rain game the full game should be played but it was ridiculous what they were playing in last night.

['gro]

Lewdogg speaks the troof!

For all the drubbing that we (gro included) put RPI through for their schedule, they do show up for ECAC's, which is a testament to the players and coaches... The past 2 games were wins at Cortland and at SJF.  Engineers all up in Chugger and Growney.  It really boosted my confidence about how this program stacks up to the rest of the region.... which leads to Gro getting so upset when they can't beat a team like SLU or Rochester in the regular season, or TCNJ in the playoffs.

Gro would never turn down an ECAC bid.  Back in '98 we were coming off a 9-1 year ready to make the next step, ended up 7-2 no ECAC bid it was the year before expansion. Gro would have played anyone for an extra game, even gone back to the Boz to play Hobart again!

[JQV]

I am with you PBR.  The game should never have been played.  I am just surprised Selig was actually at the park.  He didn't play it for FOX, he played it because he is doing anything to get this series over with.  He has spent his entire tenure promoting two teams and now is getting hit for it.  Why else would they start Game 3 at 10 p.m.?

At least the dropped popup by Rollins didn't hurt anything.  The interesting play is BJ's infield hit.  Rollins just barely got there.  It is pretty close debate whether that is a hit anyway in clean conditions.  I have seen BJ beat that play out so many times, probably as many times as you have seen Rollins make an incredible play in the hole to steal a hit.  Who knows?

In the end, all the other stuff doesn't matter because now Philly loses Hamels for the Series unless he starts Game 7 on short rest.  That is the real travesty.  Especially because I thought we had a good shot at beating him and I'd have like to see that game.

[JT]

I'm not saying the NJAC isn't a quality conference.  From top to bottom it is probably the second best in the east behind the MAC.  But I don't think the top 3 in that conference are any better than the top three in the E8 or LL, and I'm not really that impressed with the only thing we can judege the NJAC by at this point, comparative scores.  I mean, Rowan beating Bridgewater St by 10 points?  Are you frickin kidding me?  First games are first games, but the Rowan teams of old would have beaten them by 50 at the half.

FYI.... Rowan was starting a new quarterback in his first college game.  The kid had not played QB since HS three years ago.  He was a WR at U Del.... saw very limited playing time.  The Profs also had a lot of new players.  JT thinks they are good playoff quality team, that can lose or be upset over the next three games.  They have not played a complete good game from start to finish.

[Jonny Utah]

I'm not saying the NJAC isn't a quality conference.  From top to bottom it is probably the second best in the east behind the MAC.  But I don't think the top 3 in that conference are any better than the top three in the E8 or LL, and I'm not really that impressed with the only thing we can judege the NJAC by at this point, comparative scores.  I mean, Rowan beating Bridgewater St by 10 points?  Are you frickin kidding me?  First games are first games, but the Rowan teams of old would have beaten them by 50 at the half.

FYI.... Rowan was starting a new quarterback in his first college game.  The kid had not played QB since HS three years ago.  He was a WR at U Del.... saw very limited playing time.  The Profs also had a lot of new players.  JT thinks they are good playoff quality team, that can lose or be upset over the next three games.  They have not played a complete good game from start to finish.

JT I think Rowan can be one of the better quality teams in the east too.  I just think the 1988-2005 Rowan teams would have beaten Bridgewater St by 50 points in that game.

In all, this is going to be an exciting end of the season and playoffs for the east region I think.  I hope the NCAA keeps all the east teams (NE, NY, PA, NJ) in the east by themselves.  A lot of good teams and no clear favorites.