FB: Liberty League

[Reno Hightower]

Curry rushed for 12 yards vs. Plymouth.

Plymouth rushed for 250 yards vs. Curry.

Reno, I honestly have no idea what you want me to say about your handicapping/picking debate....If you don't like my answers, go away....not sure where your frustration comes from.

My frustration comes from Union not being where I want them to be as a program. Regionally dominant, nationally prominent. And I am frustrated when people talk about them as they still are. That frustrates me because as long as people do that then the problem will not be fixed....and Id like it to be. There is no way that playing Curry with this 2008 team is a gimme. No chance.

With that said, I do think Union would win. Maybe even big. But Im also biased.

[union89]

Curry rushed for 12 yards vs. Plymouth.

Plymouth rushed for 250 yards vs. Curry.

Reno, I honestly have no idea what you want me to say about your handicapping/picking debate....If you don't like my answers, go away....not sure where your frustration comes from.

So would Plymouth State Beat Union, then? 

No I don't think so...

I dont think so either. I also know that Plymouths resume isnt as good as Currys. They have not won a playoff game in the last 15 years. They have had winless seasons for crying out loud!

I just think that winning a NCAA Playoff Game, brought Curry from a gimme game to a team that you have to take very seriously because they can knock you off.
I also think that Union is not where U89 thinks they are as a program. I dont think there is anyone on Unions Schedule other than USMMA that is a gimme game. They lost to wpi AND rochester this year for crying out loud! I dont see how a handicapper would make a team that lost those 2 games, was down 14-0 to SLU and has beaten 1 team with a winning record this season a favorite against Curry. A team less than 12 months removed from being in the top 20 in the nation.

Last years results have no bearing on this years team....Plymouth is clearly better than Curry this year...they totally dominated Curry on the field a couple weeks ago.

[pg04]

Curry rushed for 12 yards vs. Plymouth.

Plymouth rushed for 250 yards vs. Curry.

Reno, I honestly have no idea what you want me to say about your handicapping/picking debate....If you don't like my answers, go away....not sure where your frustration comes from.

So would Plymouth State Beat Union, then? 

No I don't think so...

I dont think so either. I also know that Plymouths resume isnt as good as Currys. They have not won a playoff game in the last 15 years. They have had winless seasons for crying out loud!

I just think that winning a NCAA Playoff Game, brought Curry from a gimme game to a team that you have to take very seriously because they can knock you off.
I also think that Union is not where U89 thinks they are as a program. I dont think there is anyone on Unions Schedule other than USMMA that is a gimme game. They lost to wpi AND rochester this year for crying out loud! I dont see how a handicapper would make a team that lost those 2 games, was down 14-0 to SLU and has beaten 1 team with a winning record this season a favorite against Curry. A team less than 12 months removed from being in the top 20 in the nation.

Last years results have no bearing on this years team....Plymouth is clearly better than Curry this year...they totally dominated Curry on the field a couple weeks ago.

That's why I asked the question to begin with... While Curry may not be able to beat Union, I think PSU would have a better shot... But yes it's kind of irrelevant since they should be on their way to the NCAAs. 

[Jonny Utah]

Curry rushed for 12 yards vs. Plymouth.

Plymouth rushed for 250 yards vs. Curry.

Reno, I honestly have no idea what you want me to say about your handicapping/picking debate....If you don't like my answers, go away....not sure where your frustration comes from.

My frustration comes from Union not being where I want them to be as a program. Regionally dominant, nationally prominent. And I am frustrated when people talk about them as they still are. That frustrates me because as long as people do that then the problem will not be fixed....and Id like it to be. There is no way that playing Curry with this 2008 team is a gimme. No chance.

With that said, I do think Union would win. Maybe even big. But Im also biased.

Where does it start then, the head coach?

[Reno Hightower]

Curry rushed for 12 yards vs. Plymouth.

Plymouth rushed for 250 yards vs. Curry.

Reno, I honestly have no idea what you want me to say about your handicapping/picking debate....If you don't like my answers, go away....not sure where your frustration comes from.

My frustration comes from Union not being where I want them to be as a program. Regionally dominant, nationally prominent. And I am frustrated when people talk about them as they still are. That frustrates me because as long as people do that then the problem will not be fixed....and Id like it to be. There is no way that playing Curry with this 2008 team is a gimme. No chance.

With that said, I do think Union would win. Maybe even big. But Im also biased.

Where does it start then, the head coach?

Im a firm believer in you always start at the top. So whoever makes the budgetary decisions for the Athletic Department, then whoever determines each teams budget. In non-school admissions and financial aid come into play a lot also.
Tough to blame Coach Audino. He is the all time winningest coach there and won the 2nd most games ever in a season just 3 years ago.
I saw them last year vs RPI, the only reason they scored 14 was because of Dinos play calling.

[Jonny Utah]

Curry rushed for 12 yards vs. Plymouth.

Plymouth rushed for 250 yards vs. Curry.

Reno, I honestly have no idea what you want me to say about your handicapping/picking debate....If you don't like my answers, go away....not sure where your frustration comes from.

My frustration comes from Union not being where I want them to be as a program. Regionally dominant, nationally prominent. And I am frustrated when people talk about them as they still are. That frustrates me because as long as people do that then the problem will not be fixed....and Id like it to be. There is no way that playing Curry with this 2008 team is a gimme. No chance.

With that said, I do think Union would win. Maybe even big. But Im also biased.

Where does it start then, the head coach?

Im a firm believer in you always start at the top. So whoever makes the budgetary decisions for the Athletic Department, then whoever determines each teams budget. In non-school admissions and financial aid come into play a lot also.
Tough to blame Coach Audino. He is the all time winningest coach there and won the 2nd most games ever in a season just 3 years ago.
I saw them last year vs RPI, the only reason they scored 14 was because of Dinos play calling.

So the president? 

I'm not trying to take sides here, but it seems that a few of you are really biased towards who to blame here.

Recruit harder, recruit better, get better players.

Lets also remember that most upstate d3 teams really have put in a lot more money into their programs compared to 10 years ago when IC and Union were still the best in the east.  Maybe it is the ADs fault I don't know anything about the situation there.

But to me the head football coach at a great d3 school should be at least 75% responsible for what happens with the program.

If the school starts cutting coaches and stuff like that I understand.  But all d3 schools have been changing the financial aid thing over the past 4 years.  Thats what I heard out of Ithaca anyway.

['gro]

Gro posted this on the NEFC page but Curry has had 2 decent NCAA games (RPI '03 and DelVal '05) and the win against Hartwick.  They're not worldbeaters, but they're progressing.

Hey, RPI's only been out of the 1st round once (twice if you include a bye). Thanks Curry.

[Reno Hightower]

Curry rushed for 12 yards vs. Plymouth.

Plymouth rushed for 250 yards vs. Curry.

Reno, I honestly have no idea what you want me to say about your handicapping/picking debate....If you don't like my answers, go away....not sure where your frustration comes from.

My frustration comes from Union not being where I want them to be as a program. Regionally dominant, nationally prominent. And I am frustrated when people talk about them as they still are. That frustrates me because as long as people do that then the problem will not be fixed....and Id like it to be. There is no way that playing Curry with this 2008 team is a gimme. No chance.

With that said, I do think Union would win. Maybe even big. But Im also biased.

Where does it start then, the head coach?

Im a firm believer in you always start at the top. So whoever makes the budgetary decisions for the Athletic Department, then whoever determines each teams budget. In non-school admissions and financial aid come into play a lot also.
Tough to blame Coach Audino. He is the all time winningest coach there and won the 2nd most games ever in a season just 3 years ago.
I saw them last year vs RPI, the only reason they scored 14 was because of Dinos play calling.

So the president? 

I'm not trying to take sides here, but it seems that a few of you are really biased towards who to blame here.

Recruit harder, recruit better, get better players.

Lets also remember that most upstate d3 teams really have put in a lot more money into their programs compared to 10 years ago when IC and Union were still the best in the east.  Maybe it is the ADs fault I don't know anything about the situation there.

But to me the head football coach at a great d3 school should be at least 75% responsible for what happens with the program.

If the school starts cutting coaches and stuff like that I understand.  But all d3 schools have been changing the financial aid thing over the past 4 years.  Thats what I heard out of Ithaca anyway.

Id say its the other way around. 75% on admissions/financial aid/budgets. 25% on coaching in general (not just the head coach).
Im not saying anyone specific. I think the school as a whole has devalued football and moved other sports into positions of prominence (hockey obviously, all womens sports, lacrosse).....

[unionfan]

Curry rushed for 12 yards vs. Plymouth.

Plymouth rushed for 250 yards vs. Curry.

Reno, I honestly have no idea what you want me to say about your handicapping/picking debate....If you don't like my answers, go away....not sure where your frustration comes from.

My frustration comes from Union not being where I want them to be as a program. Regionally dominant, nationally prominent. And I am frustrated when people talk about them as they still are. That frustrates me because as long as people do that then the problem will not be fixed....and Id like it to be. There is no way that playing Curry with this 2008 team is a gimme. No chance.

With that said, I do think Union would win. Maybe even big. But Im also biased.

Man, the LLPP board has some serious dead horses...

Maybe we could have a full tournament, with the Union-Curry winner taking on the Union89-FR winner?

[union89]

Reno, I understand your point....we talked about this topic in late October over a couple pages though....I think we had kind of beat this one to death and would be just rehashing the same stuff.

In October your statements were not so specific. Your point is that you would not support a game against Curry. You are sticking your nose up at their football program. The reality of the situation right now is that in the last 15 years Curry has won as many NCAA Playoff Games as Union so they should not be looked at as an inferior program. In fact, they have won one more recently. This would be a very interesting regional game.

You can see I tried to kill this one this morning too....

[Reno Hightower]

Reno, I understand your point....we talked about this topic in late October over a couple pages though....I think we had kind of beat this one to death and would be just rehashing the same stuff.

In October your statements were not so specific. Your point is that you would not support a game against Curry. You are sticking your nose up at their football program. The reality of the situation right now is that in the last 15 years Curry has won as many NCAA Playoff Games as Union so they should not be looked at as an inferior program. In fact, they have won one more recently. This would be a very interesting regional game.

You can see I tried to kill this one this morning too....

And did just as much to keep it going as anyone.....

[union89]

Reno, I understand your point....we talked about this topic in late October over a couple pages though....I think we had kind of beat this one to death and would be just rehashing the same stuff.

In October your statements were not so specific. Your point is that you would not support a game against Curry. You are sticking your nose up at their football program. The reality of the situation right now is that in the last 15 years Curry has won as many NCAA Playoff Games as Union so they should not be looked at as an inferior program. In fact, they have won one more recently. This would be a very interesting regional game.

You can see I tried to kill this one this morning too....

And did just as much to keep it going as anyone.....

True...

[Reno Hightower]

Reno, I understand your point....we talked about this topic in late October over a couple pages though....I think we had kind of beat this one to death and would be just rehashing the same stuff.

In October your statements were not so specific. Your point is that you would not support a game against Curry. You are sticking your nose up at their football program. The reality of the situation right now is that in the last 15 years Curry has won as many NCAA Playoff Games as Union so they should not be looked at as an inferior program. In fact, they have won one more recently. This would be a very interesting regional game.

You can see I tried to kill this one this morning too....

And did just as much to keep it going as anyone.....

True...

Dont look now, but we just agreed

[pumkinattack]

I wonder if we might be over-rating the NEFC based on one win ever in the playoffs against a team that gave up 70 pts. to Utica in their prior game.  I also think Curry didn't deserve their top 25 ranking last year and would've lost in to any other opponent in the first round.  

Hobart beat NEFC reps in two of its three first NCAA first round games (the other vs. JCU in 2002) and got zero respect for beating them by a combined 60 - 16 (25 - 0 and 35 - 16).  Given that Hartwick last year was probably the weakest non-NEFC playoff rep in a long time, I would hope that everyone would extend the same skepticism to the NEFC win last year as they did to Bart after their first three playoff appearances (before they beat Cortland in a dogfight in 2005).  

That being said, I know everyone is high on Connelly, but he hasn't exactly lit it up even in their wins.  He was under 50% completions in their last game.  Given this, I think Union would win by 14 - 17 (not sure about a monkeystomp), but probably wouldn't put it away until the second half of the 4th Q vs. the best in the NEFC this year.  I think that Union would beat U of R by ten and probably beat WPI if they played again this year.  They have clearly improved.  Just like I would've loved to have gotten a hold of RPI again at the end of the season last year.  

My wish list is a Hobart first round NCAA win, RPI getting in and looking good (winning if they have a winnable game - not sure they could beat MUC or North Central), Union and/or WPI winning in ECAC games vs (ideally) AU and Rowan.    

[stimulator]

Listening to the HuddLLE and some of the comments of the LLPP prognisticators, sounds like RPI has a 50/50 chance of making the big dance.  Seems to hinge on the results of Ithaca/Cortland,  It would be a shame if they don't get a nod. 

I acknowledge that they certainly had the opportunity (many opportunities Sat. in fact) to make this a specious argument.  Just an off day offensively.  But again all the credit to Hobart for a really gritty win.

You can argue their SOS and choice to play End and Utica all you want but..

They had one close call all year.. Utica which they ended up winning by two TD's

Lost to the conference champ (assuming Hobart beats Rochester) with a field goal that went through the uprights as time expired. 

Outgained the conference champ 392 -259

Held the conference champ to 47 yards rushing

Outscored their opponents by an average of 30 -13


Seems they should get some love from the committee.  They had one off day.  If they don't get picked I am sure there will be another deserving team taking their place.  Just would be a shame to see such a strong season be overlooked.