FB: Liberty League

[lewdogg11]

Here is Union as of right now in dlip's mind:

Potential=still ****ing Billy Fuccillo HUGE!

Play: As inconsistent as any team dlip has ever seen in any sport and dlip is not exaggerating here.

-The LL as a whole is down in 09 no question. Union (if they get the auto) could surprise in the first round or get completely homogenized. As of right now LL team will be an underdog in the first round probably getting a #5 or 6 seed.

Or they'll just take a safety when winning by 1 with 30 seconds left against Mount Union.

[dlippiel]

Here is Union as of right now in dlip's mind:

Potential=still ****ing Billy Fuccillo HUGE!

Play: As inconsistent as any team dlip has ever seen in any sport and dlip is not exaggerating here.

-The LL as a whole is down in 09 no question. Union (if they get the auto) could surprise in the first round or get completely homogenized. As of right now LL team will be an underdog in the first round probably getting a #5 or 6 seed.

Or they'll just take a safety when winning by 1 with 30 seconds left against Mount Union.

+k for that...............dlip calls that play:

The Saftey of Desperation

[union89]

Here is Union as of right now in dlip's mind:

Potential=still ****ing Billy Fuccillo HUGE!

Play: As inconsistent as any team dlip has ever seen in any sport and dlip is not exaggerating here.

-The LL as a whole is down in 09 no question. Union (if they get the auto) could surprise in the first round or get completely homogenized. As of right now LL team will be an underdog in the first round probably getting a #5 or 6 seed.

Dlip, thanks for your feedback having seen the game live.....U89 followed the live stats and obviously does not translate as well.  U89 would hope Union could surprise someone in the playoffs, but what have we seen in the course of this entire season to feel this could happen?  At this point, U89 sees the Susquehanna game as a complete toss up.

U89 was angry with Union's early season performances.....I have now become lethargic, because the talent has not performed to expectations and I see no reason why it would in the coming weeks.

[Frank Rossi]

I'll be the politically correct one...Union isn't very good and the LL is not going to represent very well in the postseason, no matter who it is...My reasoning?  Alfred 51 - Rochester 14

I sort of agree.  Rochester's played tough in the LL, so that result doesn't look good.  I think Union's got the talent to win a game or two in the East (assuming their not paired off with MUC at that point), but their kind of schizphrenic.  I see that Union had like 50 yards passing, but Gallo and Gourrier are talented enough to have 300 yards receiving, just very inconsistent.  If they put it together, they can be good.  If they have stupid playcalling and make mistakes, they could get beat like a red headed step-child in the first round.  Either way, they really did have the most senior/experienced talent this year in the LL, so they should've been the team to beat anyway. 

It'll be interesting to see the battle of 4-3 RPI and Hobart next week.  Means nothing for postseason, but could mean a lot for 2010.  I'm wondering if DeWall has figured out the right playcalling, although I remain skeptical.   The defense was sort of a letdown too, but they made the plays when they needed to.   

Union's W against Ithaca held a lot of water earlier in the year, now isn't very impressive.  I don't see the LL rep getting better than the 8 seed and playing Holy Mount.

Lew, while I respect your opinions generally on here, I have to say that this nay-saying is a little off-base.

First, when was the last time a team's performance in the Dutchman Shoes game translated to any sort of reality as to how good a team is in the League?  These teams always seem to find a way to jump on each other and make each other look like sub-par teams.  You can't base much, if anything, on rivalry games -- so if this were your only exposure to Union Football this year, I'd say that you're not giving the team a fair shake.  I'd even go so far as to admit that RPI, while they looked soft at times today, also was a team that simply played its guts out alongside Union for 60 minutes.  There were no turnovers and it was a hard-nosed game, period.  Both teams deserve an enormous amount of credit.

Second, for this whole #8 seed prediction -- if Union wins out, they MAY be the #8 seed in the East -- but not through much fault of their own in some very unusual circumstances.  The team will be 8-1 in-region and 8-2 out-of-region.  The Regional Rankings placed the team at #9 this week, but Curry is #10 and headed for the NEFC auto-bid.  There are at least 3 teams that will likely fall below these two teams, assuming Union and Curry both win out.  The unusual circumstances are that there could be three teams imported into the East with better overall W/L records than Union.  It's pretty unheard of that the #5 or #6 team in the East would be placed #8 -- this is more an East Region phenomenon than it is a Liberty League phenomenon this year.  Whether or not it means the East is weak is up for debate (I think it partially means that the East is beating up on itself since we don't have many out-of-region games to use to balance this idea out. 

Regardless of the reason, though, saying that Union is the #8 team based on today's game is pretty short-sighted and ignores what we all know about the Dutchman Shoes game.  It also ignores the team's schedule -- probably the toughest schedule in the League, even as some teams have failed to produce on that schedule.  It's like saying (hypothetically) that just because Florida has three losses, a win by Minnesota over Florida is worthless to Minnesota.  Union stepped up and played some perennially tough teams this seaon in a couple regions.  They have more experience than pretty much any team in the League -- with Susquehanna maybe close behind based on the team's geography and schedule.  Don't sell Union that short right now because their performance on the road at Salisbury last weekend was potentially worth a lot more than you think. 

First things first, though... Bring on King's Point (which had a bye this week to prepare) and Susquehanna (a much-improved team this year on defense).  And stop dissing your school's league when it's not fully warranted at this time.

[dlippiel]

I'll be the politically correct one...Union isn't very good and the LL is not going to represent very well in the postseason, no matter who it is...My reasoning?  Alfred 51 - Rochester 14

I sort of agree.  Rochester's played tough in the LL, so that result doesn't look good.  I think Union's got the talent to win a game or two in the East (assuming their not paired off with MUC at that point), but their kind of schizphrenic.  I see that Union had like 50 yards passing, but Gallo and Gourrier are talented enough to have 300 yards receiving, just very inconsistent.  If they put it together, they can be good.  If they have stupid playcalling and make mistakes, they could get beat like a red headed step-child in the first round.  Either way, they really did have the most senior/experienced talent this year in the LL, so they should've been the team to beat anyway.  

It'll be interesting to see the battle of 4-3 RPI and Hobart next week.  Means nothing for postseason, but could mean a lot for 2010.  I'm wondering if DeWall has figured out the right playcalling, although I remain skeptical.   The defense was sort of a letdown too, but they made the plays when they needed to.  

Union's W against Ithaca held a lot of water earlier in the year, now isn't very impressive.  I don't see the LL rep getting better than the 8 seed and playing Holy Mount.

Lew, while I respect your opinions generally on here, I have to say that this nay-saying is a little off-base.

First, when was the last time a team's performance in the Dutchman Shoes game translated to any sort of reality as to how good a team is in the League?  These teams always seem to find a way to jump on each other and make each other look like sub-par teams.  You can't base much, if anything, on rivalry games -- so if this were your only exposure to Union Football this year, I'd say that you're not giving the team a fair shake.  I'd even go so far as to admit that RPI, while they looked soft at times today, also was a team that simply played its guts out alongside Union for 60 minutes.  There were no turnovers and it was a hard-nosed game, period.  Both teams deserve an enormous amount of credit.

Second, for this whole #8 seed prediction -- if Union wins out, they MAY be the #8 seed in the East -- but not through much fault of their own in some very unusual circumstances.  The team will be 8-1 in-region and 8-2 out-of-region.  The Regional Rankings placed the team at #9 this week, but Curry is #10 and headed for the NEFC auto-bid.  There are at least 3 teams that will likely fall below these two teams, assuming Union and Curry both win out.  The unusual circumstances are that there could be three teams imported into the East with better overall W/L records than Union.  It's pretty unheard of that the #5 or #6 team in the East would be placed #8 -- this is more an East Region phenomenon than it is a Liberty League phenomenon this year.  Whether or not it means the East is weak is up for debate (I think it partially means that the East is beating up on itself since we don't have many out-of-region games to use to balance this idea out.  

Regardless of the reason, though, saying that Union is the #8 team based on today's game is pretty short-sighted and ignores what we all know about the Dutchman Shoes game.  It also ignores the team's schedule -- probably the toughest schedule in the League, even as some teams have failed to produce on that schedule.  It's like saying (hypothetically) that just because Florida has three losses, a win by Minnesota over Florida is worthless to Minnesota.  Union stepped up and played some perennially tough teams this seaon in a couple regions.  They have more experience than pretty much any team in the League -- with Susquehanna maybe close behind based on the team's geography and schedule.  Don't sell Union that short right now because their performance on the road at Salisbury last weekend was potentially worth a lot more than you think.  

First things first, though... Bring on King's Point (which had a bye this week to prepare) and Susquehanna (a much-improved team this year on defense).  And stop dissing your school's league when it's not fully warranted at this time.

Frank, dlip sees what your saying and it makes a lot of sense. As the evening has progressed dlip has reflected upon some of the earlier sediments shared by many (including himself) and feels that many are feeling a bit "disappointed," and/or "let down," regarding the quality of play in the LL in comparison to other regions and/or conferences. It seems to dlip that we have been riding this three headed horse now for a while and which ever head has come out on top has provided much excitement regarding it's NCAA potential. From what we have seen this year in OOC games and OOR games the LL has fared poorly for the most part. Looking at the LL we have had a Bart team preseason ranking of #15 falling flat out of the gate, RPI losing to U of R, Union beating a then #8 IC (who has gone on to disappoint throughout 09) and then losing to the Mules who have been quite porous since their W over U. Today U of R whom beat RPI and Union just beat got seriously beat up by Alfred with their back-up QB. Union whom we love without question has probably been the LL's only team in 09 that league supporters would put up against any avg to upper tier team in the nation OOR (to dlip Susquehanna fell from this possibility with their loss to lycoming). With that, looking at Union's inability to be convincing or dominate in their wins against OK competition as well as losing to the best team they have played, in a Salisbury team that is down this year, many, including myself just think the LL is down. To dlip, with today's scratch and claw W over an RPI team who has struggled (although dlip loves the W over MHIT) to some, it may seem as if the LL winner will probably not have much of a shot of getting out of the first round against stiff competition. Today, two teams absolutely battled it out and dlip gives so much credit to the players on both sides of the ball. Yet, if he feels he is trying to be objective, even taking into account the rivalry, he must step back and try to see the league for what it may be in 09, down. What do you think?

[Jonny Utah]

Any fans of slot casinos here?  Hit my first jackpot ever -- $5,868.66.  Stayed on the same machine and pulled another $470.00 in a free spin cycle.  Started the weekend off the right way, to say the least, up in Saratoga.

Was it a Wheel of Fortune Machine? 

[Frank Rossi]

It's the most competitive Liberty League we've had in years, though -- it's not just a 3- or 4-team league.  It's been a 7- or 8-team league.  That translates to a much better preparation for the team that wins in the playoffs.  Listen -- Hobart wasn't a world-blazer last season in many people's minds, especially offensively.  That team beat Lycoming in the opening round.  

I'm not surprised by the way the Liberty League has panned out.  In fact, did I not tell everyone that Susquehanna/Union could be a de facto League Championship Game in August?  Susquehanna, on paper, looked like a VERY good team -- as did Union.  Union has been absolutely riddled with injuries in the midseason, and yet, the team still won games.  Score the team some depth points here.  The fact that Chris Coney played with pep in his step and less injured today was a huge positive for the team (3 TDs all from >10 yards).  

I've learned over the last 15 years not to put stock in the whole "A beat B, B beat C, so A beats C" mentality (the so-called syllogisms of football).  Union has the tools right now to beat any team based on their ability to put together offensive drives and based on their defensive depth.  Is this team perfect?  No... far from it.  However, Union will be able to stay in any game against almost any team.  

Every game has been a challenge -- and that's a great thing for a team like Union and the rest of the Liberty League.  Yes, Rochester lost by 37 today -- but I see it as a team that is right now exhausted from some of the games they've been through this year and a team that lacks depth.  Alfred is a very good team.  Alfred/Union would definitely be a good game and might be a reality if Union were able to achieve a #7 seed this year (and assuming Alfred were the #2 seed).  

So is it a down year for the Liberty League?  No more down than for any other East Region conference.  Is parity a bad thing for the League?  I don't think so -- if every LL game is a horserace, doesn't that maturity for all of the teams?  I'm not as bearish as everyone else this year.  Let's face it, the LL went Oh-fer in 2007 in the playoffs in all cases.  We were all writing off the Liberty League after that... then Hobart beats Lycoming and puts up a fight against Mount Union.  Next thing we know, we have a team that's #15 in preseason rankings (which was not a prediction but a reward for 2008).  We tend to go to extremes in our emotions about the LL... but the truth is somewhere in the middle at all times.  Keep your spirit up about things because things are not as negative as everyone feels.

[Frank Rossi]

Any fans of slot casinos here?  Hit my first jackpot ever -- $5,868.66.  Stayed on the same machine and pulled another $470.00 in a free spin cycle.  Started the weekend off the right way, to say the least, up in Saratoga.

Was it a Wheel of Fortune Machine? 

A "Quick Hit" machine.

[dlippiel]

Players whom impressed (stood out) to dlip in today's shoes game:

Chris Coney- Great running today. Chris seemed very determined today and ran the football with authority. He seemed very focused throughout and made the Engineers pay for poor tackling and inability to wrap him up in the backfield before he turned the corners.

Union O-line: dlip feels the line played quite well at times today and allowed for Chris Coney and even Drew Connelly to gain some yardage on the ground.

Charles Hovespian: Although Charles did not seem his "Early Season" self it was great to see him back in the line-up and dlip feels he will help the U D tremendously in the next two weeks. He worked extremely hard today.

Drew Connelly: Although dlip feels Drew did not throw the ball well today he makes the point of noting he did not turn it over either. Right now Drew seems to be fighting for confidence which is understandable. He knows he needs to become more consistent and today dlip feels he too a step in the right direction by not throwing any picks and even eating the ball a few times.

Mike Hermann: dlip knows U89 will soon be saying dlip's new man crush is on Mike Hermann because of Boltus' graduation and U89 may be right (****ing around here !) Mike impressed dlip today with his mobility in the pocket, his poise, and ability to not force the ball and throw it away when need be. This ****in kid is going to be good. It has been a long time since dlip saw a kid with this size and mobility takig snaps. ****ing King always finds these QB's. Hermann needs to work on his throwing but if/when it improves he will really be the real deal for the Engineers.

Nick Costa: Although Nick has not had big gains throughout 09 today he was ****ing serious about running the football. dlip gained a lot of respect for Costa today and felt he gave the Engineers and Mike Hermann the ability to make plays as a result of his speed and outside running keeping the U D honest.

Austin Caswell: Where did this kid come from? Austin showed lots of heart, athleticism, and composure today. dlip feels this kid may just have begun his path to a very successful career at RPI.

Where were they today?:

Union Receivers: dlip feels like Audino is working on rebuilding Connelly's confidence behind center as a result of some picks this season BUT with the talent this team has lining up for routes on O U must find a way to get these kids more touches. To dlip Jared Gourrier is one of the classiest team leaders dlip has ever seen on a Union Football team. This young man, in dlips opinion, is one of the most talented athletes in the country. dlip would clearly put him in the top 25 d3football athletes in 09 and feels Union must, must, must find a way to get the ball to Jared more. Today  in his senior year final game against his biggest rival Jared was not all that involved in the O. Yet he continued to run his routes, lead his team by example, and make things happen when he was called upon. The wildcat is effective with Jared but sometimes, you must throw the ball out of it. Jared has this ability and dlip feels (with Tom S originally bringing this up) even if it is once or twice a game for short routes it will keep the D honest and allowa Jared some more wiggle room when running the ball.

[dlippiel]

I've learned over the last 15 years not to put stock in the whole "A beat B, B beat C, so A beats C" mentality (the so-called syllogisms of football).  Union has the tools right now to beat any team based on their ability to put together offensive drives and based on their defensive depth.  Is this team perfect?  No... far from it.  However, Union will be able to stay in any game against almost any team.

A nice point here you big $ winner you!

[lewdogg11]

Look dudes, I'm not dissing anyone here.  The facts are that i'm trying to be realistic.  Union's win over Ithaca was big early, but Ithaca doesn't look great now.  They lost to a mediocre Muhlenburg team, snuck by a sh!tty St. Lawrence in OT, and beat Rochester by a TD, which Alfred absolutely smoked today.  I know the logistics of the shoes game, trust me.  But neither team was impressive today, and on the whole RPI doesn't appear to be very good, and Union doesn't appear to be head and shoulders better.

I understand your optimism, and you should be wishing for the best.  I just don't see it all shaking out too great for the LL this year, whether it's Union or Susquehanna representing it.  I'm not being mean-spirited for once, or a poor sport.  I'm just calling it the way I see it.  I will be routing for Union in the playoffs, but I don't think I can route for Sasquatch if it ends up being them.  They aren't even a really LL team in my opinion.  They were a short-term rental who ate our food and drank our beer and left without paying cover.

[union89]

Players whom impressed (stood out) to dlip in today's shoes game:

Chris Coney- Great running today. Chris seemed very determined today and ran the football with authority. He seemed very focused throughout and made the Engineers pay for poor tackling and inability to wrap him up in the backfield before he turned the corners.

Union O-line: dlip feels the line played quite well at times today and allowed for Chris Coney and even Drew Connelly to gain some yardage on the ground.

Charles Hovespian: Although Charles did not seem his "Early Season" self it was great to see him back in the line-up and dlip feels he will help the U D tremendously in the next two weeks. He worked extremely hard today.

Drew Connelly: Although dlip feels Drew did not throw the ball well today he makes the point of noting he did not turn it over either. Right now Drew seems to be fighting for confidence which is understandable. He knows he needs to become more consistent and today dlip feels he too a step in the right direction by not throwing any picks and even eating the ball a few times.

Mike Hermann: dlip knows U89 will soon be saying dlip's new man crush is on Mike Hermann because of Boltus' graduation and U89 may be right (****ing around here !) Mike impressed dlip today with his mobility in the pocket, his poise, and ability to not force the ball and throw it away when need be. This ****in kid is going to be good. It has been a long time since dlip saw a kid with this size and mobility takig snaps. ****ing King always finds these QB's. Hermann needs to work on his throwing but if/when it improves he will really be the real deal for the Engineers.

Nick Costa: Although Nick has not had big gains throughout 09 today he was ****ing serious about running the football. dlip gained a lot of respect for Costa today and felt he gave the Engineers and Mike Hermann the ability to make plays as a result of his speed and outside running keeping the U D honest.

Austin Caswell: Where did this kid come from? Austin showed lots of heart, athleticism, and composure today. dlip feels this kid may just have begun his path to a very successful career at RPI.

Where were they today?:

Union Receivers: dlip feels like Audino is working on rebuilding Connelly's confidence behind center as a result of some picks this season BUT with the talent this team has lining up for routes on O U must find a way to get these kids more touches. To dlip Jared Gourrier is one of the classiest team leaders dlip has ever seen on a Union Football team. This young man, in dlips opinion, is one of the most talented athletes in the country. dlip would clearly put him in the top 25 d3football athletes in 09 and feels Union must, must, must find a way to get the ball to Jared more. Today  in his senior year final game against his biggest rival Jared was not all that involved in the O. Yet he continued to run his routes, lead his team by example, and make things happen when he was called upon. The wildcat is effective with Jared but sometimes, you must throw the ball out of it. Jared has this ability and dlip feels (with Tom S originally bringing this up) even if it is once or twice a game for short routes it will keep the D honest and allowa Jared some more wiggle room when running the ball.

Very well put....thx for your overview.  BTW, U89 is hoping that Hermann's growth on the field starts to slow a bit.....

[union89]

Look dudes, I'm not dissing anyone here.  The facts are that i'm trying to be realistic.  Union's win over Ithaca was big early, but Ithaca doesn't look great now.  They lost to a mediocre Muhlenburg team, snuck by a sh!tty St. Lawrence in OT, and beat Rochester by a TD, which Alfred absolutely smoked today.  I know the logistics of the shoes game, trust me.  But neither team was impressive today, and on the whole RPI doesn't appear to be very good, and Union doesn't appear to be head and shoulders better.

I understand your optimism, and you should be wishing for the best.  I just don't see it all shaking out too great for the LL this year, whether it's Union or Susquehanna representing it.  I'm not being mean-spirited for once, or a poor sport.  I'm just calling it the way I see it.  I will be routing for Union in the playoffs, but I don't think I can route for Sasquatch if it ends up being them.  They aren't even a really LL team in my opinion.  They were a short-term rental who ate our food and drank our beer and left without paying cover.

Well put again....you and Dlip are on a roll.  One of my main concerns is that Union has let the opposition hang around in EVERY game....LD mentions that Union beat Rochester by a touchdown.....that was on a last second Hail Mary (Rochester was up 21-20 w/ 10 secs. in the 4th)....St. Lawrence in OT....WPI by 4....Hobart on some very late questionable calls.....

Good teams put marginal teams away and don't give them the opportunity to pull out last second upsets.

[Frank Rossi]

Look dudes, I'm not dissing anyone here.  The facts are that i'm trying to be realistic.  Union's win over Ithaca was big early, but Ithaca doesn't look great now.  They lost to a mediocre Muhlenburg team, snuck by a sh!tty St. Lawrence in OT, and beat Rochester by a TD, which Alfred absolutely smoked today.  I know the logistics of the shoes game, trust me.  But neither team was impressive today, and on the whole RPI doesn't appear to be very good, and Union doesn't appear to be head and shoulders better.

I understand your optimism, and you should be wishing for the best.  I just don't see it all shaking out too great for the LL this year, whether it's Union or Susquehanna representing it.  I'm not being mean-spirited for once, or a poor sport.  I'm just calling it the way I see it.  I will be routing for Union in the playoffs, but I don't think I can route for Sasquatch if it ends up being them.  They aren't even a really LL team in my opinion.  They were a short-term rental who ate our food and drank our beer and left without paying cover.

Well put again....you and Dlip are on a roll.  One of my main concerns is that Union has let the opposition hang around in EVERY game....LD mentions that Union beat Rochester by a touchdown.....that was on a last second Hail Mary (Rochester was up 21-20 w/ 10 secs. in the 4th)....St. Lawrence in OT....WPI by 4....Hobart on some very late questionable calls.....

Good teams put marginal teams away and don't give them the opportunity to pull out last second upsets.

The difference is that Union has won most of those games and knows how to win, unlike in 2008.  The only real exception to that was the Salisbury game -- but a 16-point comeback was a nice thing to witness for people that are unconvinced about Union's resilience when it comes to more of a national stage. 

Good teams know how to win, even with their backs against the wall.  Good teams know how to avoid falling behind by three possessions no matter how bad things are in a game, in order to give themselves a chance to come back and potentially win those games.  If you were to use your assessment, U89, then the 2005 Union team was a mediocre team, too:

Sept. 10 Springfield •  W 35-7     
Sept. 17 at Muhlenberg  W 22-14     
Sept. 24 at Rochester • *  W 41-28     
Oct. 1 at Merchant Marine • *  W 23-17 (OT)     
Oct. 8 Worcester Polytech • *  W 31-3     
Oct. 15 at Franklin and Marshall  W 14-10     
Oct. 22 Coast Guard • *  W 7-0     
Oct. 29 at St. Lawrence • *  W 40-21     
Nov. 5 Hobart • *  W 28-18     
Nov. 12 RPI • *  W 49-42 

+28, +8, +13, +6 (OT), +28, +4, +7, +19, +10, +7

Some of those games were last-minute wins, too.  Am I saying the 2009 team is at the level of the 2005 team?  No.  Not yet.  But for a team to go 10-0 takes a lot of luck and some cardiac moments, unless you have the word "Mount" in front of your name.  And in 2005, the LL was not nearly as good from top to bottom.  I think you're being short-sighted here if you're saying that the only way you define a "good" team is by looking at that final score, since that would pretty much eliminate the 2005 Dutchmen from such consideration, too.

[union89]

Look dudes, I'm not dissing anyone here.  The facts are that i'm trying to be realistic.  Union's win over Ithaca was big early, but Ithaca doesn't look great now.  They lost to a mediocre Muhlenburg team, snuck by a sh!tty St. Lawrence in OT, and beat Rochester by a TD, which Alfred absolutely smoked today.  I know the logistics of the shoes game, trust me.  But neither team was impressive today, and on the whole RPI doesn't appear to be very good, and Union doesn't appear to be head and shoulders better.

I understand your optimism, and you should be wishing for the best.  I just don't see it all shaking out too great for the LL this year, whether it's Union or Susquehanna representing it.  I'm not being mean-spirited for once, or a poor sport.  I'm just calling it the way I see it.  I will be routing for Union in the playoffs, but I don't think I can route for Sasquatch if it ends up being them.  They aren't even a really LL team in my opinion.  They were a short-term rental who ate our food and drank our beer and left without paying cover.

Well put again....you and Dlip are on a roll.  One of my main concerns is that Union has let the opposition hang around in EVERY game....LD mentions that Union beat Rochester by a touchdown.....that was on a last second Hail Mary (Rochester was up 21-20 w/ 10 secs. in the 4th)....St. Lawrence in OT....WPI by 4....Hobart on some very late questionable calls.....

Good teams put marginal teams away and don't give them the opportunity to pull out last second upsets.

The difference is that Union has won most of those games and knows how to win, unlike in 2008.  The only real exception to that was the Salisbury game -- but a 16-point comeback was a nice thing to witness for people that are unconvinced about Union's resilience when it comes to more of a national stage.  

Good teams know how to win, even with their backs against the wall.  Good teams know how to avoid falling behind by three possessions no matter how bad things are in a game, in order to give themselves a chance to come back and potentially win those games.  If you were to use your assessment, U89, then the 2005 Union team was a mediocre team, too:

Sept. 10 Springfield •  W 35-7      
Sept. 17 at Muhlenberg  W 22-14      
Sept. 24 at Rochester • *  W 41-28      
Oct. 1 at Merchant Marine • *  W 23-17 (OT)    
Oct. 8 Worcester Polytech • *  W 31-3      
Oct. 15 at Franklin and Marshall  W 14-10      
Oct. 22 Coast Guard • *  W 7-0      
Oct. 29 at St. Lawrence • *  W 40-21      
Nov. 5 Hobart • *  W 28-18      
Nov. 12 RPI • *  W 49-42  

+28, +8, +13, +6 (OT), +28, +4, +7, +19, +10, +7

Some of those games were last-minute wins, too.  Am I saying the 2009 team is at the level of the 2005 team?  No.  Not yet.  But for a team to go 10-0 takes a lot of luck and some cardiac moments, unless you have the word "Mount" in front of your name.  And in 2005, the LL was not nearly as good from top to bottom.  I think you're being short-sighted here if you're saying that the only way you define a "good" team is by looking at that final score, since that would pretty much eliminate the 2005 Dutchmen from such consideration, too.

There is no comparison.....the '05 Liberty League was head and shoulders above the '09 version.......even WPI lost only 3 games, to Union, RPI & 'Bart.

Without looking it up, the 'points for' and 'points against' differential has to be worlds different from '05 to '09 for U.  Entering the season, I thought this years Union team had a lot of similarities to the '05 group......there lies my disappointment.