FB: Liberty League

[redswarm81]

WPI has to know going in that its two toughest games are likely to be RPI and Union.  Good coaching requires that the team be better prepared for those two games than for any others (to the extent that there's any variability in preparedness, which might be an interesting topic for a different OCDish thread).  WPI has to invest more into preparing for those two games than it invests in its early, OoC schedule, certainly.

I don't know how coaching can completely overcome the damage done to a team's psychology when they play their best game (so far over their heads that their noses bleed for a week to ten days) and lose--twice, in consecutive weeks even.

Obviously I'd take exception to this.  Hobart, which has been both an early and midseason conference game is just as important and they're 0-6.  

As to your second point, Hobart lost to RPI in 2007 in an action packed battle between Robertson and Strom that went down to the wire, it looked like they were done at 1-2 (lost in OT to Dickinson), but came back to win 7 in a row including a thrashing of a pretty good Alfred team and beating Union, so the excuse that losing a tough, key conference game early ruins a season is pretty suspect.  Also, RPI has had a number of strong finishes after losing to Hobart early in the year.  Is two in a row different?  Maybe, but character goes a long way and one way or another the coach is supposed to modl the character of the guys he recuits and mentors, so the responsibility still falls on the coach.  

Okay, I think you addressed peripheral issues, not my main points, and I don't disagree with what you say.

Lighten up, Francis.

Yes, Hobart has historically been as strong as RPI and Union in the 21st Century.  I was basing my analysis on the Tank's point, that WPI's schedule has them opening LL play against RPI and Union in consecutive weeks.  I was speaking temporally.  I didn't mean to imply that Hobart, whom WPI has historically played later in the season, hasn't been as tough an opponent for WPI as have RPI and Union.

I don't think you addressed the issue of a team preparing for, and playing in consecutive weeks, two solid teams; and losing to those two solid teams despite preparing well and playing well.

[dlippiel]

Not to be an asshole but dlip's secondary addiction to the Pride may be coming full circle. dlip feels that the Pride may just be for real and week in and week out is making more of a case. To dlip if they take SJF next week we will know for sure this team is back post-Sharpe.......I know....I know....take this **** to the E8 board .

[redswarm81]

RS, I've seen some of the atrocious scores with those three and they could be really bad, I don't know, you may be correct.  But what about the bottom of the E6 or MAC for other comparisons.  I don't think we do as well (better than the CC though).  I hate to admit it, but Utica and Hartwick (and maybe IC this year?) as the bottom compares pretty favorably vs. ours and we have a couple of results that bear this out.   

I think that WPI, MMA, UofR, Utica, and Hartwick would be a ferociously competitive league, and I think that each of those teams would beat WestConn, Buffalo St., and Mo'ville St. like rented mules.  I'm not as familiar with the CC, although I note that in 2009, Muhlenberg is having its worst season in a decade, yet it beat the LL's best--by which I don't mean to imply that the CC is better top to bottom than the LL, just that the CC is particularly inscrutable this year.  Western McMaryland used to roll that whole conference like a Persian rug, now they're consistently mediocre.

The MAC, as near as I can tell, is listed in the dictionary twice, under the following entries:

• Inscrutable, and
• Cluster****

[union89]

Not to be an asshole but dlip's secondary addiction to the Pride may be coming full circle. dlip feels that the Pride may just be for real and week in and week out is making more of a case. To dlip if they take SJF next week we will know for sure this team is back post-Sharpe.......I know....I know....take this **** to the E8 board .

You are proving correct....I thought Springfield would have a good year, but nothing like this.

I deem you Nostradamus.

[pumkinattack]

Well, I thought I did by suggesting that in addition to good coaching requiring preparation for those two games, it also requires building the teams character to bounce back.  

Maybe I'm spoiled because Cragg has been so awesome for Hobart, but the 2007 example is comparable.  If you go back to that season, we lost Mizro and Blackowski, but Strom was looking good.  We go down to Dickinson and lose in OT where we had a lead late, lost it and then Doyle in for injured Strom drives to get a FG to tie it, we subsequently lost in OT even though we had a strong legged FG kicker that year.  Bart comes back home a beats a good CMU team by one.  Game three in Geneva.  Robertson/Strom, big plays all over the field, back and forth and RPI wins by having the ball last (meaning it was the type of game where the offenses were playing really well and the last one on the field was winning, not denigrating the win).  Bart's 1-2 overall, 0-1 in conference and could've folded with a new set of offensive players, no Mizro, Blackowski (but other talent obviously).  Cragg rallies the troops and they go on a great run win out including some good wins and get an at large behind RPI's AQ.  Bart probably would've beaten half the playoff field at that point too, but got a really tough draw (2 v. 5) going to a very good SJF and that game was a hard fought loss.  So it's not consecutive weeks, but two out of three after losing a lot of studs on offense is a similar situation.  I guess the bigger question is what standard are they held to?  Is Cragg the standard and if you fall short you're not a good coach?  (I don't think so, but I'm trying to find a comparable situation here)

[redswarm81]

Well, I thought I did by suggesting that in addition to good coaching requiring preparation for those two games, it also requires building the teams character to bounce back.  

Maybe I'm spoiled because Cragg has been so awesome for Hobart, but the 2007 example is comparable.  If you go back to that season, we lost Mizro and Blackowski, but Strom was looking good.  We go down to Dickinson and lose in OT where we had a lead late, lost it and then Doyle in for injured Strom drives to get a FG to tie it, we subsequently lost in OT even though we had a strong legged FG kicker that year.  Bart comes back home a beats a good CMU team by one.  Game three in Geneva.  Robertson/Strom, big plays all over the field, back and forth and RPI wins by having the ball last (meaning it was the type of game where the offenses were playing really well and the last one on the field was winning, not denigrating the win).  Bart's 1-2 overall, 0-1 in conference and could've folded with a new set of offensive players, no Mizro, Blackowski (but other talent obviously).  Cragg rallies the troops and they go on a great run win out including some good wins and get an at large behind RPI's AQ.  Bart probably would've beaten half the playoff field at that point too, but got a really tough draw (2 v. 5) going to a very good SJF and that game was a hard fought loss.  So it's not consecutive weeks, but two out of three after losing a lot of studs on offense is a similar situation.  I guess the bigger question is what standard are they held to?  Is Cragg the standard and if you fall short you're not a good coach?  (I don't think so, but I'm trying to find a comparable situation here)

I understand that it's difficult to find a comparable situation.  The Hobart 2007 scenario is a valiant attempt, but I don't see it as comparable.  I see 1-2 with only one conference loss as an order of magnitude better than 3-2 with two conference losses.  I think any coach would have an easier time getting that 1-2 Hobart team to realize that they still controlled most of their post-season destiny, than he would have convincing that 3-2 WPI team that its season wasn't over for post season consideration.

The thought occurred to me that with respect to WestConn, Buffalo St., and Mo'ville St. in the NJAC, perhaps part of their institutional suckitude can be attributed to their lack of rivalries?

[Frank Rossi]

Speaking of perceptions, most alums that I speak with, share LD's opinion of you 100%.

The only thing LD said today about me is that I'm stubborn (no sh!t?!) and that I'm a "homer" (which is pretty obvious since I sink a bunch of money and time into broadcasting for Union's team).  So, if that's what you mean, then I'm guilty as charged and loving my job.

[pumkinattack]

A quote from Bill Simmons for Lew (you'll like this):

Browns (+13) over BEARS
I demand that Jay Cutler grows the Jeff George mustache so we can officially pass the torch. By the way, you might be intimidated by Derek Anderson and his 40.8 QB rating on the road. I look at it this way: If he was a baseball player, that's the equivalent of hitting .112 after six weeks. How could it possibly stay that low? I think this is gonna be Anderson's breakout week: something like 9-for-23 with two touchdowns and two picks.



(OK, maybe that's not a "breakout," so to speak. More of a quiet exploration. But still, better than 40.8! You gotta admit.)

[union89]

Speaking of perceptions, most alums that I speak with, share LD's opinion of you 100%.

The only thing LD said today about me is that I'm stubborn (no sh!t?!) and that I'm a "homer" (which is pretty obvious since I sink a bunch of money and time into broadcasting for Union's team).  So, if that's what you mean, then I'm guilty as charged and loving my job.

I didn't even mean stubborn....'a homer with blinders on' as a poster in here referred to you.

I don't appreciate when you attempt to tell me how I should speak of the team and it's performance.

I'm bailing on this conversation now....last year this escalated right around now...not going to let it happen again.

[Doid23]

-And is it me, or does Union traditionally play down to bad teams throughout the regular season? .

I hate to generalize, but I agree with that comment. There are always 2-3 games a year that don't make any sense, too close compared to both teams other results, and it's been that way for years.

[pg04]

As an outsider that has no actual visual evidence of either team, but just the fact that I have been following D3 football in both years, I think the Union team of 2005 just had a different feel than this year's one.  I remember thinking that year that Union could go all the way to the regional finals.  This year I doubt they'll make it out of the first round.  Just an opinion on my observations from both years. 

[Doid23]

Look dudes, I'm not dissing anyone here.  The facts are that i'm trying to be realistic.  Union's win over Ithaca was big early, but Ithaca doesn't look great now.  They lost to a mediocre Muhlenburg team, snuck by a sh!tty St. Lawrence in OT, and beat Rochester by a TD, which Alfred absolutely smoked today.  I know the logistics of the shoes game, trust me.  But neither team was impressive today, and on the whole RPI doesn't appear to be very good, and Union doesn't appear to be head and shoulders better.

Here's the thing, if you look at any one game, then yes, UColl would look to be extremely inferior to Alfred. But if you look at Rochester losing to SJF by 2, and Alfred beating SJF by 3, then the comparison get's a little more complicated. Triangulate Union's score vs. St.L, (OT win by 3), and then what Ithaca did to St. L (45-0), and you would come to the conclusion that Ithaca would smoke Union.  So be careful jumping to conclusions like that.

[redswarm81]

-And is it me, or does Union traditionally play down to bad teams throughout the regular season? .

I hate to generalize, but I agree with that comment. There are always 2-3 games a year that don't make any sense, too close compared to both teams other results, and it's been that way for years.

I don't see Union as being especially unique to this phenomenon.  To a certain extent, every team plays to the level of its competition--up or down.

Still doesn't explain the Muhlenberg thing--I think Halliburton or alien abduction are the only two possible rational explanations.   

[SaintsFAN]

Any fans of slot casinos here?  Hit my first jackpot ever -- $5,868.66.  Stayed on the same machine and pulled another $470.00 in a free spin cycle.  Started the weekend off the right way, to say the least, up in Saratoga.

Was it a Wheel of Fortune Machine? 

Dude, when I took my ex to Vegas for her first time... you could tell she was originally from the hills of TN... why?  She would NOT leave the "Wheel of Fortune" game... sheesh. 

[Jonny Utah]

Any fans of slot casinos here?  Hit my first jackpot ever -- $5,868.66.  Stayed on the same machine and pulled another $470.00 in a free spin cycle.  Started the weekend off the right way, to say the least, up in Saratoga.

Was it a Wheel of Fortune Machine? 

Dude, when I took my ex to Vegas for her first time... you could tell she was originally from the hills of TN... why?  She would NOT leave the "Wheel of Fortune" game... sheesh. 

That Wheel of Fortune game does suck me in every once in a while.  Bonus spin like 5% or something like that?  Granted Ive never seen anyone hit more than 25 or 50 on that spin but still...