FB: Liberty League

[union89]

  I think SUS is much more similar to Alfred than people want to suggest.  Defense can be suspect at times for both, although it shows up when it needs to generally, and the offense is balanced enough to keep a team off guard.  I'd say that Paveletz is better than Hendrix, but I'd say Alfred's QB would be better than Palazzi, especially for the deep ball.  That said, I don't see a huge amount of separation between Alfred and Susquehanna from a pure talent perspective.

Frank, I'd like to understand better why you would rank Paveletz higher than Hendrix.  Looking at the NCAA stats Hendrix is currently ranked 8th in the country at 133.90 yds/game with Paveletz 11th at 128.55 yds/game.  And both scored 11 rushing touchdowns.  Not much difference to draw any conclusions from there.  Hendrix averaged 5.3 yds/rush while Paveletz averaged 4.7 yds/rush and Hendrix also had 17 receptions for 170 yards and 2 TDs while Paveletz didn't catch a ball this year.  Some of that is certainly due to the offenses both teams run and the other personnel alongside each back, but I don't see how from the numbers you could say they were anything other than equals (unless you wanted to favor Vinson).

Kaz,
It's funny you bring up this topic.  I was just stacking up the tailbacks in the LL in my mind this morning.  I have seen 5 or 6 Union games this past year and in all honesty, I have not seen every team in the conference.  I would rank the Paveletz kid from Susquehanna as no better than the 3rd best back in the LL.  IMO, the kid from Rochester was the measuring stick followed by Coney from Union.  Outside of the long run to close the game vs. Union, the kid seemed pretty ordinary and heavy footed.  In that final run, Union was bunching the LOS in dire need of a stop.  Paveletz broke through the 1st level and was gone.  To be truthful, I thought Paveletz was the 2nd best back on his OWN team that day.

Having seen both kids play, Paveletz reminded me a lot of a 'poor mans', Dan Ruggiero from Ithaca.  As far as intangibles, Paveletz seemed to be the leader of the SU squad and someone the team looked to for direction.

In fairness, I have never seen Hendrix play, but have heard rave reviews from the E8PP board.

And, in fairness, you watched Paveletz when he was injured and not even on our two-deep that week.  So, whatever you're balancing your opinions on here seems a little harsh and unfair toward Paveletz.  He was questionable until just before kickoff vs. Union, if you had listened to the broadcast (I know, you can't stand listening, but injuries are things we key in on throughout the broadcast).

Why can you not help yourself but to throw jabs every chance you get.  You're like that unintimidating bully from Seifeld....

"Why you no wear 'da ribbon....."

[PBR...]

Ditto what pbr and Grove said... Happy Thanksgiving to the LLPPers... I understand there will be a meeting of the minds in Boston on Friday?? 

SF will be broadcasting the TMC/JHU game on D3football if anyone is bored on Saturday at noon.

definetly SF this is 1 of the more intriguing games to pbr this weekend. both very good teams and pbr is very interested to see how they stack up against each other.

[Frank Rossi]

  I think SUS is much more similar to Alfred than people want to suggest.  Defense can be suspect at times for both, although it shows up when it needs to generally, and the offense is balanced enough to keep a team off guard.  I'd say that Paveletz is better than Hendrix, but I'd say Alfred's QB would be better than Palazzi, especially for the deep ball.  That said, I don't see a huge amount of separation between Alfred and Susquehanna from a pure talent perspective.

Frank, I'd like to understand better why you would rank Paveletz higher than Hendrix.  Looking at the NCAA stats Hendrix is currently ranked 8th in the country at 133.90 yds/game with Paveletz 11th at 128.55 yds/game.  And both scored 11 rushing touchdowns.  Not much difference to draw any conclusions from there.  Hendrix averaged 5.3 yds/rush while Paveletz averaged 4.7 yds/rush and Hendrix also had 17 receptions for 170 yards and 2 TDs while Paveletz didn't catch a ball this year.  Some of that is certainly due to the offenses both teams run and the other personnel alongside each back, but I don't see how from the numbers you could say they were anything other than equals (unless you wanted to favor Vinson).

Kaz -

Just completing my thoughts, assuming you saw my note to U89 before this one, Paveletz missed basically 2 1/2 quarters of football vs. a weaker opponent (WPI) and was suspect at best during the Union game (although, Union's defensive change may have somewhat lobbed on his problems on top of the injury).  So, from a ground yardage perspective, Paveletz probably would've outgained Hendrix if he had been healthy the final three games he played.  That said, I'm unsure whether Hendrix was injured at any point this season, missing a part of a game (maybe you can speak to this).

It's pretty obvious that Paveletz catching zero balls would be more an offense-centric issue than a player issue -- and it makes sense since Palazzi had three quality receivers to which he would throw this season (Ritter, Moran and Howell).  So, I don't take much from receiving numbers with tailbacks, especially in this case.

I think my biggest difference maker for Paveletz is that he was doing this all behind a sophomore quarterback (and for a backup quarterback for 2 1/2 games) this season.  The defenses tended to key onto him (maybe with less success than Union, but the focus coming into the season was Paveletz, period).  That wasn't so much the case for Alfred, as Secky had a lot of respect, taking some focus off Hendrix.  As the season went on and both Susquehanna and defenses had confidence in Palazzi's abilities, both Susquehanna's offensive focus and teams' defensive focus changed.  For Paveletz to have gained the amount he did this year may have been more impressive than his junior season in some ways -- the secret was out and he still drove down the field with the numbers he put up until his injury surfaced.  However, that part is very debatable.

The overall point is that Paveletz and Hendrix are both quality backs for good offenses -- yet, one offense was more established coming into the season than the other.

[Frank Rossi]

Ditto what pbr and Grove said... Happy Thanksgiving to the LLPPers... I understand there will be a meeting of the minds in Boston on Friday?? 

SF will be broadcasting the TMC/JHU game on D3football if anyone is bored on Saturday at noon.

definetly SF this is 1 of the more intriguing games to pbr this weekend. both very good teams and pbr is very interested to see how they stack up against each other.

And while you listen to that one, make sure to check out the Mississippi College/Wesley game Saturday at Noon EST -- I'll be covering that game and might have a very special color commentator coming up (but I'll confirm before I name him).  It's also available on D3football.com.

[Frank Rossi]

Why can you not help yourself but to throw jabs every chance you get.  You're like that unintimidating bully from Seifeld....

"Why you no wear 'da ribbon....."

I didn't consider it a jab since you've admitted as much on the LL In-Game Updates board several times throughout the season.  It's a free country -- just pointing out that we provide information that could be key to the game beyond what the videocast shows.

[Yanks 99]

  I think SUS is much more similar to Alfred than people want to suggest.  Defense can be suspect at times for both, although it shows up when it needs to generally, and the offense is balanced enough to keep a team off guard.  I'd say that Paveletz is better than Hendrix, but I'd say Alfred's QB would be better than Palazzi, especially for the deep ball.  That said, I don't see a huge amount of separation between Alfred and Susquehanna from a pure talent perspective.

Frank, I'd like to understand better why you would rank Paveletz higher than Hendrix.  Looking at the NCAA stats Hendrix is currently ranked 8th in the country at 133.90 yds/game with Paveletz 11th at 128.55 yds/game.  And both scored 11 rushing touchdowns.  Not much difference to draw any conclusions from there.  Hendrix averaged 5.3 yds/rush while Paveletz averaged 4.7 yds/rush and Hendrix also had 17 receptions for 170 yards and 2 TDs while Paveletz didn't catch a ball this year.  Some of that is certainly due to the offenses both teams run and the other personnel alongside each back, but I don't see how from the numbers you could say they were anything other than equals (unless you wanted to favor Vinson).

Kaz,
It's funny you bring up this topic.  I was just stacking up the tailbacks in the LL in my mind this morning.  I have seen 5 or 6 Union games this past year and in all honesty, I have not seen every team in the conference.  I would rank the Paveletz kid from Susquehanna as no better than the 3rd best back in the LL.  IMO, the kid from Rochester was the measuring stick followed by Coney from Union.  Outside of the long run to close the game vs. Union, the kid seemed pretty ordinary and heavy footed.  In that final run, Union was bunching the LOS in dire need of a stop.  Paveletz broke through the 1st level and was gone.  To be truthful, I thought Paveletz was the 2nd best back on his OWN team that day.

Having seen both kids play, Paveletz reminded me a lot of a 'poor mans', Dan Ruggiero from Ithaca.  As far as intangibles, Paveletz seemed to be the leader of the SU squad and someone the team looked to for direction.

In fairness, I have never seen Hendrix play, but have heard rave reviews from the E8PP board.

And, in fairness, you watched Paveletz when he was injured and not even on our two-deep that week.  So, whatever you're balancing your opinions on here seems a little harsh and unfair toward Paveletz.  He was questionable until just before kickoff vs. Union, if you had listened to the broadcast (I know, you can't stand listening, but injuries are things we key in on throughout the broadcast).

Why can you not help yourself but to throw jabs every chance you get.  You're like that unintimidating bully from Seifeld....

"Why you no wear 'da ribbon....."

WHO???  WHO DOESN'T WANT TO WEAR THE RIBBON???

[SaintsFAN]

Ditto what pbr and Grove said... Happy Thanksgiving to the LLPPers... I understand there will be a meeting of the minds in Boston on Friday?? 

SF will be broadcasting the TMC/JHU game on D3football if anyone is bored on Saturday at noon.

definetly SF this is 1 of the more intriguing games to pbr this weekend. both very good teams and pbr is very interested to see how they stack up against each other.

They mirror eachother in terms of what they do well.  Stop the run (TMC 2nd in nation in rushing yards/game allowed) and run the ball.  TMC runs a spread option ground attack with great speed on both sides of the ball.  JHU counters with a power running game mixed in with efficient throws by their sophomore QB.   I feel the key to this game is whether or not there needs to be an adjustment to TMC's speed.   Last week it was 14-0 6 minutes into the game because of this.  Their 2nd string TB caught a ball in the flat, broke a tackle, made a move to the outside and wasn't touched until 70 yards later when he came back to the bench.  If TMC puts the ball on the ground (JHU has forced 33 turnovers this year) it could be a long day.  

I'll be the redneck sounding guy on color.  UC's pbp guy, Richard Skinner will be handling PBP.  

[dlippiel]

 U89 says...

IMO, the kid from Rochester was the measuring stick followed by Coney from Union.

Another solid football conversation here regarding two very talented backs in their own right. dlip has to concurr with U89 here in regards to Onyeruke's (****in spelling?) impressive season and crown him the LL's top back. As far as the comparison between Coney and Paveletz these two backs bring very different styles to each team. Both ran for solid yardage, both finished in the top 25 ITN in yards, and both were integral parts of their teams success in 09. Yet to dlip he feels that the nod would go to Coney here (you may call dlip a homer) in a close one. dlip feels Coney's overall running style and ability to battle through injury and still be very effective gives him the edge. dlip looks at the game between SU/Union and feels that was the stage for comparison between the two. Both came in banged the **** up. The Crusaders came away with the V but Coney was integral in Union's ability to compete. The U O was not clicking at all with the exception of Mr. Coney basically running a one man show against a stacked box. Paveletz just wasn't as dynamic and effective. Obviously both are studs and deserve tons of credit. dlip can't comment on Hendrix simply because he was unable to view Alfred this season. obviously the numbers and reviews of him are nothing short of steller. Great debate fellas.

[SJFF82]

 I think SUS is much more similar to Alfred than people want to suggest.  Defense can be suspect at times for both, although it shows up when it needs to generally, and the offense is balanced enough to keep a team off guard.  I'd say that Paveletz is better than Hendrix, but I'd say Alfred's QB would be better than Palazzi, especially for the deep ball.  That said, I don't see a huge amount of separation between Alfred and Susquehanna from a pure talent perspective.

Frank, I'd like to understand better why you would rank Paveletz higher than Hendrix.  Looking at the NCAA stats Hendrix is currently ranked 8th in the country at 133.90 yds/game with Paveletz 11th at 128.55 yds/game.  And both scored 11 rushing touchdowns.  Not much difference to draw any conclusions from there.  Hendrix averaged 5.3 yds/rush while Paveletz averaged 4.7 yds/rush and Hendrix also had 17 receptions for 170 yards and 2 TDs while Paveletz didn't catch a ball this year.  Some of that is certainly due to the offenses both teams run and the other personnel alongside each back, but I don't see how from the numbers you could say they were anything other than equals (unless you wanted to favor Vinson).

Kaz -

Just completing my thoughts, assuming you saw my note to U89 before this one, Paveletz missed basically 2 1/2 quarters of football vs. a weaker opponent (WPI) and was suspect at best during the Union game (although, Union's defensive change may have somewhat lobbed on his problems on top of the injury).  So, from a ground yardage perspective, Paveletz probably would've outgained Hendrix if he had been healthy the final three games he played.  That said, I'm unsure whether Hendrix was injured at any point this season, missing a part of a game (maybe you can speak to this).

It's pretty obvious that Paveletz catching zero balls would be more an offense-centric issue than a player issue -- and it makes sense since Palazzi had three quality receivers to which he would throw this season (Ritter, Moran and Howell).  So, I don't take much from receiving numbers with tailbacks, especially in this case.

I think my biggest difference maker for Paveletz is that he was doing this all behind a sophomore quarterback (and for a backup quarterback for 2 1/2 games) this season.  The defenses tended to key onto him (maybe with less success than Union, but the focus coming into the season was Paveletz, period).  That wasn't so much the case for Alfred, as Secky had a lot of respect, taking some focus off Hendrix.  As the season went on and both Susquehanna and defenses had confidence in Palazzi's abilities, both Susquehanna's offensive focus and teams' defensive focus changed.  For Paveletz to have gained the amount he did this year may have been more impressive than his junior season in some ways -- the secret was out and he still drove down the field with the numbers he put up until his injury surfaced.  However, that part is very debatable.

The overall point is that Paveletz and Hendrix are both quality backs for good offenses -- yet, one offense was more established coming into the season than the other.

Henrix did sit out the second half the AU-Fisher game...dont think he gained a ton in the 1st anyway.

Plus Frank, we now know that AU's competition was much stronger this year than Susq's  

[dlippiel]

By the way happy ****in Turkey Day to all on the LLPP baby! dlip wishes everyone of the LLPP brethern and their families a happy, safe, wonderful Thanksgiving! +K to the last two pages of Turkeys!

[dlippiel]

= SF


= dlip

SF and dlip ready to broadcast some D3 football!

[SaintsFAN]

= SF


= dlip

SF and dlip ready to broadcast some D3 football!

haha... +K

[AUKaz00]

  I think SUS is much more similar to Alfred than people want to suggest.  Defense can be suspect at times for both, although it shows up when it needs to generally, and the offense is balanced enough to keep a team off guard.  I'd say that Paveletz is better than Hendrix, but I'd say Alfred's QB would be better than Palazzi, especially for the deep ball.  That said, I don't see a huge amount of separation between Alfred and Susquehanna from a pure talent perspective.

Frank, I'd like to understand better why you would rank Paveletz higher than Hendrix.  Looking at the NCAA stats Hendrix is currently ranked 8th in the country at 133.90 yds/game with Paveletz 11th at 128.55 yds/game.  And both scored 11 rushing touchdowns.  Not much difference to draw any conclusions from there.  Hendrix averaged 5.3 yds/rush while Paveletz averaged 4.7 yds/rush and Hendrix also had 17 receptions for 170 yards and 2 TDs while Paveletz didn't catch a ball this year.  Some of that is certainly due to the offenses both teams run and the other personnel alongside each back, but I don't see how from the numbers you could say they were anything other than equals (unless you wanted to favor Vinson).

Kaz -

Just completing my thoughts, assuming you saw my note to U89 before this one, Paveletz missed basically 2 1/2 quarters of football vs. a weaker opponent (WPI) and was suspect at best during the Union game (although, Union's defensive change may have somewhat lobbed on his problems on top of the injury).  So, from a ground yardage perspective, Paveletz probably would've outgained Hendrix if he had been healthy the final three games he played.  That said, I'm unsure whether Hendrix was injured at any point this season, missing a part of a game (maybe you can speak to this).

It's pretty obvious that Paveletz catching zero balls would be more an offense-centric issue than a player issue -- and it makes sense since Palazzi had three quality receivers to which he would throw this season (Ritter, Moran and Howell).  So, I don't take much from receiving numbers with tailbacks, especially in this case.

I think my biggest difference maker for Paveletz is that he was doing this all behind a sophomore quarterback (and for a backup quarterback for 2 1/2 games) this season.  The defenses tended to key onto him (maybe with less success than Union, but the focus coming into the season was Paveletz, period).  That wasn't so much the case for Alfred, as Secky had a lot of respect, taking some focus off Hendrix.  As the season went on and both Susquehanna and defenses had confidence in Palazzi's abilities, both Susquehanna's offensive focus and teams' defensive focus changed.  For Paveletz to have gained the amount he did this year may have been more impressive than his junior season in some ways -- the secret was out and he still drove down the field with the numbers he put up until his injury surfaced.  However, that part is very debatable.

The overall point is that Paveletz and Hendrix are both quality backs for good offenses -- yet, one offense was more established coming into the season than the other.

Thanks for the elaboration.  And to add a little more insight for you on Hendrix, he too was playing behind a sophomore QB (though Secky was certainly more ballyhooed than Palazzi coming into the season), played with backup Kilcarr during the UofR game (so that LL opponent could have been focusing on him more) as well as the portion of the Fisher game after Secky's injury and before his own (which was pointed out by Ty).  

Pep thought Paveletz looked solid in our scrimmage (I don't feel like going back to find his exact comments), so it's no surprise that an argument could be made between the two and rightfully so since they both are sitting near the top of the NCAA rushing stats at season's end.  I guess it was the declarative nature of the statement "I'd say that Paveletz is better than Hendrix" that struck me the wrong way as if to imply it wasn't even close.

[Knightstalker]

KS found this Video of the Day while browsing, WTF.

[bleedpurple]

Congratulations to Dave Paveletz and John Peters and all of the 2009 Gagliardi Trophy finalists.