FB: Liberty League

[labart96]

TGP is loving the Saints win.  After 2 weeks of hearing how great Manning is ("the best of all-time") he delivers the game-winner - to NOLA.

WHO DAT?!?!??!

[pg04]

LD11 hits the final score in his squares pool...woop woop!!!

I had 1 and 7 too.... but going the other way! D'oh! 

[G-manWU]

The simultaneous economic realities of higher costs for education and collegiate football are going to force many programs to re-evaluate not only their conference affiliation but also the future of fielding a football team.

I predict some schools will opt out of collegiate football with an eye towards continuing less costly sports.

D-III teams are seldom money makers for the school but the argument may be made they bring in alumni donations and student-athlete enrollment.

Practically speaking, private, liberal arts college education, seems poised to follow the Detroit automakers into oblivion.  Each year car costs continued to rise as attention to detail suffered and overseas competitors found a way to build a better product.  The challenge facing higher education - how can they continue to balance the budget with soaring fuel costs, inflationary wage factors for well-qualified faculty and a decrease in the endowment due to stock market reverses.

Sounds like a very challenging time to be in the leadership of any higher education institution.

Lyco--

The Rev agrees with your assessment that these will be tough times for liberal arts colleges.  In fact, The Rev will turn it up a notch and say that some liberal arts colleges will have to close their doors.  They are over-priced and under-performing.  Worst of all, schools don't want to let go of subsidized programs (e.g. Trans-Gendered Studies, Wymyn's Studies, etc., etc.).  Granted those programs don't cost a whole lot in the grand scheme of things, but if you add them all together and take an honest assessment of how much they bring in, they all need to be cut.

I never understood Hobart in the sense that we seem to have a large number of people in education programs.  Who in their right mind spends $50,000 a year to become a public school teacher?  Why not go to SUNY Cortland or SUNY Oneonta?  They are perfectly good schools and you can save yourself $150,000 over the course of four years.

That brings up the point of Return on Investment:  No liberal arts college will survive unless the promise of a great ROI materializes and becomes reality.  As in, when The Rev finally has kids, they are going to learn how to machine metal, weld, and other useful skills rather than go to college.  If they decide they want to go to school, they can choose an engineering program and live at home, but The Rev is not going to waste a dime on some Marxist P.O.S. teaching my kids to hate me, Free Enterprise, America, and the Church.

Oh! The Rev is fired up now!!!!

Lyco80, I think the move by Susquehanna is based purely on pride and ego. They were so eager to jump the MAC ship a few years back that they were more than happy to spend a few years up north rather than waste away with your alma mater, my alma mater, and the rest of the underperforming MAC leftovers  A great shame, as we always enjoyed great games with the Crusaders- they always had poor records in my time in blue and gold, but they played as hard as anyone we faced on the schedule. Everyone on our coaching staff got along well, the schools were close so that many parents could make the trip, and that beautiful campus had lots of pretty girls....I remember having a wonderful pregame chat before our 2005 game out there with this delightful Italian exchange student...Coach Shep and the bunch would have gotten a good laugh at that one

As you and I both know, often times the decisions that involve athletic conference affiliations are made at a "higher level" than the athletic department offices. In that case, the Crusaders can take it and have fun...if their new home gives them a warm, fuzzy feeling inside, good for them. The only disappointment I have is that it may impact the Stagg Hat game- do you have any info on this?

Rev,

I think you may be jumping to an early judgement on private, liberal arts schools. Having graduated from one, and being currently enrolled in grad school at another (non-football) such school, I can say that the last few years have not been the best, but the panic buttons at both my current school and my alma mater are far from sounding the "abandon ship" signal. In fact both schjools have recently added new academic programs that are among the first in the region. At the end of the day, kids can always go to Ship, Bloom, ESU or elsewhere if they want to be a teacher as you said, but there are other programs unique to the private schools that will always attract students.

In my case, I see myself as no different than many other students at the schools in question. I could have gotten a similar degree from any number of state schools and saved a bundle, but I would not trade my four years on the banks of the Susquehanna for ANY other school, public, private, or otherwise 

[mattvsmith]

Rev,

I think you may be jumping to an early judgment on private, liberal arts schools. Having graduated from one, and being currently enrolled in grad school at another (non-football) such school, I can say that the last few years have not been the best, but the panic buttons at both my current school and my alma mater are far from sounding the "abandon ship" signal. In fact both schools have recently added new academic programs that are among the first in the region. At the end of the day, kids can always go to Ship, Bloom, ESU or elsewhere if they want to be a teacher as you said, but there are other programs unique to the private schools that will always attract students.

I don't think we're going to see massive closures, but I definitely think that schools that used to be on the edge will find themselves falling off.  It happened back in the Depression and WWII (Hobart nearly folded, but thanks to the Navy V-12 and William Smith College it survived).  Eisenhower College in Seneca Falls just couldn't survive in the downturn of the 1970's.  It was absorbed by RIT.  I'm not saying it's a bad thing for schools to shut down.  A little sad, but they were obviously doing something wrong, and needed to go to the annals of history.

What's propping up schools now is the federal aid, both direct and indirect.  Personally, I'd like to see an end to student loans, or at least an increase in interest rate such that it is market-level.  That would put an end to tuition hikes that are triple the rate of inflation.  just like there was a housing bubble create by too-easy money and artificially low interest rates that drove up the price of housing to greater than real prices, so too college tuition has sky-rocketed.

Public schools now cost more what it cost for me to go to Hobart less than 20 years ago.  That's criminal.  Wages have not kept up with that increase; real wages have dropped.  So we have kids paying 3~4 times what I paid in order to make less in the work force, thus saddling them with crippling debt they have a more difficult time paying back.

Honestly, I think we need to stop the madness of higher education.  Why does a clerk or mail room boy need an AAS or a secretary a BA, or a lab technician a BS or MS?

Now the snob in me says that people who need to take out loans to go to school don't belong in those schools.  But the non-snob in me says that's not nice.

In fact, I see higher education mania detracting from the meaning or value of a liberal arts education.  Perhaps the goal was to make elite school dependent on the federal government so that they could be neutralized, or democratized.   The Rev is definitely not against a liberal arts education, but there are few schools that are truly liberal arts. Only St. John's (MD), Shimer (IL), Thomas Aquinas (CA) and a small handful of others do true liberal arts.  The others--Hobart included--are no longer teaching liberal arts, in the proper sense.

Someday The Rev needs to sit down, compile and organize all of his thoughts and criticisms of US higher ed instead of these piece meal and random rants.

[PBR...]

Rev,

I think you may be jumping to an early judgment on private, liberal arts schools. Having graduated from one, and being currently enrolled in grad school at another (non-football) such school, I can say that the last few years have not been the best, but the panic buttons at both my current school and my alma mater are far from sounding the "abandon ship" signal. In fact both schools have recently added new academic programs that are among the first in the region. At the end of the day, kids can always go to Ship, Bloom, ESU or elsewhere if they want to be a teacher as you said, but there are other programs unique to the private schools that will always attract students.

I don't think we're going to see massive closures, but I definitely think that schools that used to be on the edge will find themselves falling off.  It happened back in the Depression and WWII (Hobart nearly folded, but thanks to the Navy V-12 and William Smith College it survived).  Eisenhower College in Seneca Falls just couldn't survive in the downturn of the 1970's.  It was absorbed by RIT.  I'm not saying it's a bad thing for schools to shut down.  A little sad, but they were obviously doing something wrong, and needed to go to the annals of history.

What's propping up schools now is the federal aid, both direct and indirect.  Personally, I'd like to see an end to student loans, or at least an increase in interest rate such that it is market-level.  That would put an end to tuition hikes that are triple the rate of inflation.  just like there was a housing bubble create by too-easy money and artificially low interest rates that drove up the price of housing to greater than real prices, so too college tuition has sky-rocketed.

Public schools now cost more what it cost for me to go to Hobart less than 20 years ago.  That's criminal.  Wages have not kept up with that increase; real wages have dropped.  So we have kids paying 3~4 times what I paid in order to make less in the work force, thus saddling them with crippling debt they have a more difficult time paying back.

Honestly, I think we need to stop the madness of higher education.  Why does a clerk or mail room boy need an AAS or a secretary a BA, or a lab technician a BS or MS?

Now the snob in me says that people who need to take out loans to go to school don't belong in those schools.  But the non-snob in me says that's not nice.

In fact, I see higher education mania detracting from the meaning or value of a liberal arts education.  Perhaps the goal was to make elite school dependent on the federal government so that they could be neutralized, or democratized.   The Rev is definitely not against a liberal arts education, but there are few schools that are truly liberal arts. Only St. John's (MD), Shimer (IL), Thomas Aquinas (CA) and a small handful of others do true liberal arts.  The others--Hobart included--are no longer teaching liberal arts, in the proper sense.

Someday The Rev needs to sit down, compile and organize all of his thoughts and criticisms of US higher ed instead of these piece meal and random rants.

spot on rev...pbr has talked about his neighbor (a 'nova grad) who has 2 of his kids there now he is paying 50K per kid w/ their expenses he has told me he is forking over between 110-120K a year right now. its amazing to pbr the debt some of these kids will be straddled with for an undergraduate degree today.

[SaintsFAN]

LD11 hits the final score in his squares pool...woop woop!!!

SF had the Colts -4.5 for a decent amount.  Spent most of the 1st half arguing with the brothers at the bar before finally convincing them they don't know football.  Crux of argument:  they thought that getting hit doesn't bother a QB.   Won the argument, but lost the coin.  Go figure. 

[Lyco80]

Concur with the Rev's ROI assessment.

So many people now hold either a BA or BS that an undergraduate degree is practically worthless in the marketplace.

So, after $150K of debt you have to matriculate at a graduate school - further increasing your debt.

When all is said and done it is possible to owe more than $200K for your entire education.

The United Methodist Church is finding that some of its most recent ordained clergy are carrying this sort of load while receiving a compensation of $35K per year plus the benefits of housing, medical and pension.

Meanwhile, we have leaky faucets that need fixing and a shortage of plumbers.

It seems that the Nation is enamored with debt and drunk on what, temporarily, appears to be free money.

I fear that the day of economic reckoning is upon us and the results will make the Great Depression look like a field trip.

Recommendation:  get out of debt, keep cash available and a reliable self-defense weapon.

It is improbable to believe that things can merely continue on as they have without the accompanying course corrections.

On a football note:  I thought Manning was let down by Wayne and Garcon who did not put themselves into good position to make plays or dropped balls they should have caught.  Additionally, the story is not about Drew Brees but the lack of pass rush from the Colts.  Some of Lycoming's intramural quarterbacks could have made some of those passes - Brees had way too much time.  Also, N.O. defense played tough all day.

It almost appeared the Colts thought they were entitled to the win - that is never a good attitude at any level.

ATB

[PBR...]

ooffahhh!! wtf...mother nature just dropped almost 2 ft. of snow on pbr now another storm is taking aim w/ another 2 ft of snow. blizzard warnings will be issued shortly...where the hell is pbr going to put the snow....

[SJFF82]

Super Bowl sucked...was cool seeing Garcon score though....i guess.  Bad drop turned the game around offensively for the Colts.

[PBR...]

Super Bowl sucked...was cool seeing Garcon score though....i guess.  Bad drop turned the game around offensively for the Colts.

why did it suck?  brees was incredible. saints defense had a incredible plan on changing the strategy by the quarter so manning was never able to figure out what they were going to do. you a colts fan?

[lewdogg11]

Super Bowl sucked...was cool seeing Garcon score though....i guess.  Bad drop turned the game around offensively for the Colts.

why did it suck?  brees was incredible. saints defense had a incredible plan on changing the strategy by the quarter so manning was never able to figure out what they were going to do. you a colts fan?

I agree.  Thought the Super Bowl was pretty good.  Not one of the best ever, kinda boring at times, but exciting none-the-less.  Nothing better than seeing that dude break on the ball and take it to the house. 

['gro]

yell-o... coming out of hibernation for a day or 2 or 8.  Here's why the superbowl "sucked". There were very few big plays.... 1 INT (with a TD, bonus), 1 onsides kick recovery, 1 sack. Checking the box score looks like there was one 40 yard completion to Collie, and a 20+ yard run by Addai. Waaaaaa.

People don't want football, they want an entire game that looks like highlights from Sportscenter - or Super Happy Fun Time Sports Sexy Show, as it is called in Japan. I for one thought the game was just fine. In the end, the Saints of New Orleans triumphed over the Colts of Indianapolis by (occasionally) kicking an oblong ball made of pig skin through a big "H". It was a most ripping victory.

[pg04]

Yeah I thought I was the only one who actually enjoyed the game... The commercials and the halftime show sucked, though. 

[labart96]

Yeah I thought I was the only one who actually enjoyed the game... The commercials and the halftime show sucked, though. 

As a musician TGP hates to say this but was Betty White up there with the Who?

At least some of the HOFers they've had up there in recent years a) could get it done (e.g. Bruce) and b) actually sounded good (e.g. Sir Paul).

[lewdogg11]

Yeah I thought I was the only one who actually enjoyed the game... The commercials and the halftime show sucked, though. 

As a musician TGP hates to say this but was Betty White up there with the Who?

At least some of the HOFers they've had up there in recent years a) could get it done (e.g. Bruce) and b) actually sounded good (e.g. Sir Paul).

Agreed all around.  The commercials were dookie, and The Who are mad old.  Add Elton John to the list of good ones.  He is always entertaining, can still sing, and is moderately relevant still.  All because of the nipple slip that has forever ruined an entire generation of youth.  I wonder if that generation is out burning down buildings and smoking crack this morning because of the vaunted nipple.