FB: Liberty League

[lewdogg11]

I don't know if any of you guys listen to Bubba the Love Sponge, but they were playing this parody song last week and I can't get it out of my head.  Give it a whirl 2-3 times...then try NOT singing it around the house.  NSFW

[Pat Coleman]

My son doesn't hit well enough to merit me buying an expensive T-ball bat.

[lewdogg11]

My son doesn't hit well enough to merit me buying an expensive T-ball bat.

Some dude at the bar the other night was bragging and going on and on and on to me about how his son hit .800 last year and struck out 4 times.  He is 12.

[JT]

Unless you want to work a trade, don't you need a degree?

Unless one gets a degree in Engineering, Computers, Accounting, Biology, Chemistry etc.,  an undergrad degree is pretty much useless.  The world doesn't work the way most liberal arts teaching portrays it to be.  College is a good place to grow up, make lifelong friends, and learn a little something.  Liberal arts is an expensive four years, in which one needs more education to get a job.    

[lewdogg11]

Unless you want to work a trade, don't you need a degree?

Unless one gets a degree in Engineering, Computers, Accounting, Biology, Chemistry etc.,  an undergrad degree is pretty much useless.  The world doesn't work the way most liberal arts teaching portrays it to be.  College is a good place to grow up, make lifelong friends, and learn a little something.  Liberal arts is an expensive four years, in which one needs more education to get a job.    

Correct, but you need that education to get further education.

[Regulator]

Unless you want to work a trade, don't you need a degree?

Unless one gets a degree in Engineering, Computers, Accounting, Biology, Chemistry etc.,  an undergrad degree is pretty much useless.  The world doesn't work the way most liberal arts teaching portrays it to be.  College is a good place to grow up, make lifelong friends, and learn a little something.  Liberal arts is an expensive four years, in which one needs more education to get a job.    

Put down the pipe for a second here.....

How many businesses will look....even LOOK at a resume if there isn't a college degree listed?
I am all for lowering the cost of education, however, to say that an undergrad degree is useless is foolish.
I get that you aren't going to step into a leadership position just bc you have a degree, however, the world we live in isn't accepting applications for your (an applicants)  fancy GED degree and your hard knocks experience.

[SJFF82]

Unless you want to work a trade, don't you need a degree?

Unless one gets a degree in Engineering, Computers, Accounting, Biology, Chemistry etc.,  an undergrad degree is pretty much useless.  The world doesn't work the way most liberal arts teaching portrays it to be.  College is a good place to grow up, make lifelong friends, and learn a little something.  Liberal arts is an expensive four years, in which one needs more education to get a job.    

Put down the pipe for a second here.....

How many businesses will look....even LOOK at a resume if there isn't a college degree listed?
I am all for lowering the cost of education, however, to say that an undergrad degree is useless is foolish.
I get that you aren't going to step into a leadership position just bc you have a degree, however, the world we live in isn't accepting applications for your fancy GED degree and your hard knocks experience.

Reg...of course you are correct, however, I believe (IMHO) that the origibnal premise here was that dollar for dollar, higher ed aint payin off now and it will only decline by all accounts and outlooks.  So, the reality will be that the market of higher education as a means to a prosperous career may soon dramatically shift.  The component everyone forgets is that the consumer (parents and students) controls the market.  To blanketly state that you must get a degree to compete for the jobs you mention is to ignore what would (may) happen when the consumer student decides, you know what, it aint worth it anymore, I'm just not paying the price for that piece of paper.  Then what?  Then the economy has been 'corrected' and the landscape has been changed for those 'higher ed' jobs.  If they need the workforce, will they take what they can get, or will they fold up shop just because the prospective work force all decided that college was too expensive?

EDIt:  boy that sounds confusing...I guess all i am trying to say is that if every resume for a particular business is devoid of the degree because the prospective employees said hell no to the price tag of the degree then what?  Isnt it all relative?

[JT]

Unless you want to work a trade, don't you need a degree?

Unless one gets a degree in Engineering, Computers, Accounting, Biology, Chemistry etc.,  an undergrad degree is pretty much useless.  The world doesn't work the way most liberal arts teaching portrays it to be.  College is a good place to grow up, make lifelong friends, and learn a little something.  Liberal arts is an expensive four years, in which one needs more education to get a job.    

Put down the pipe for a second here.....

How many businesses will look....even LOOK at a resume if there isn't a college degree listed?
I am all for lowering the cost of education, however, to say that an undergrad degree is useless is foolish.
I get that you aren't going to step into a leadership position just bc you have a degree, however, the world we live in isn't accepting applications for your (an applicants)  fancy GED degree and your hard knocks experience.

I'm not saying all degrees. Many will land you a job: Engineering, Chemistry, Business etc.,  I'm talking about those fluffy liberals arts degrees, which always require more education in order to some day get a job that will pay one's tuition loans.  

For example, a neighbor's kid majored in Sociology.  He graduated this past Summer.  I casually asked when the kid was going to grad school.  Dad said, "Why does he have to go grad school?"  I didn't have the heart to tell him.

After screwing around, the kid went to grad school this January.  He moved back home. And Dad looks like he wants to shoot himself.

[PBR...]

Unless you want to work a trade, don't you need a degree?

Unless one gets a degree in Engineering, Computers, Accounting, Biology, Chemistry etc.,  an undergrad degree is pretty much useless.  The world doesn't work the way most liberal arts teaching portrays it to be.  College is a good place to grow up, make lifelong friends, and learn a little something.  Liberal arts is an expensive four years, in which one needs more education to get a job.    

Put down the pipe for a second here.....

How many businesses will look....even LOOK at a resume if there isn't a college degree listed?
I am all for lowering the cost of education, however, to say that an undergrad degree is useless is foolish.
I get that you aren't going to step into a leadership position just bc you have a degree, however, the world we live in isn't accepting applications for your (an applicants)  fancy GED degree and your hard knocks experience.

pbr thinks your correct here reg...looking back on it if pbr had gone to trade school and say either gotten his plumbers/hvac/electricians license pbr could make a pretty good case for making some serious coin by now...several of pbr's friends did this and started their own business and now have anywhere from 6-20 people working for them. if some of them had any kind of business sense they would be toning it by now. they are not saddled w/ any kind of debt and several of them are doing very very good for themselves. 1 of the biggest factors is all those doods barter w/ each other. so their weekend shore house gets built all on favors from each other for almost no money.

[Knightstalker]

Unless you want to work a trade, don't you need a degree?

Unless one gets a degree in Engineering, Computers, Accounting, Biology, Chemistry etc.,  an undergrad degree is pretty much useless.  The world doesn't work the way most liberal arts teaching portrays it to be.  College is a good place to grow up, make lifelong friends, and learn a little something.  Liberal arts is an expensive four years, in which one needs more education to get a job.    

Put down the pipe for a second here.....

How many businesses will look....even LOOK at a resume if there isn't a college degree listed?
I am all for lowering the cost of education, however, to say that an undergrad degree is useless is foolish.
I get that you aren't going to step into a leadership position just bc you have a degree, however, the world we live in isn't accepting applications for your (an applicants)  fancy GED degree and your hard knocks experience.

pbr thinks your correct here reg...looking back on it if pbr had gone to trade school and say either gotten his plumbers/hvac/electricians license pbr could make a pretty good case for making some serious coin by now...several of pbr's friends did this and started their own business and now have anywhere from 6-20 people working for them. if some of them had any kind of business sense they would be toning it by now. they are not saddled w/ any kind of debt and several of them are doing very very good for themselves. 1 of the biggest factors is all those doods barter w/ each other. so their weekend shore house gets built all on favors from each other for almost no money.

All an undergrad degree for the most part will get you is your foot in the door like a HS diploma did 30 years ago.

KS would be pulling down almost double what he is making now working about the same 50-55 hours per week if he hadn't screwed up his back and had to quit working as a toolmaker 20 years ago.

[SJFF82]

Some other factors to consider:

time spent getting the degree while losing 4-8 years of income, plus the interest on the income

the collateral debt that many of us take on in college and grad school such as high interest credit card debt

time lost having not been vested in a retirement account

brain cells lost funneling PBR at low level college football games

[JT]

Unless you want to work a trade, don't you need a degree?

Unless one gets a degree in Engineering, Computers, Accounting, Biology, Chemistry etc.,  an undergrad degree is pretty much useless.  The world doesn't work the way most liberal arts teaching portrays it to be.  College is a good place to grow up, make lifelong friends, and learn a little something.  Liberal arts is an expensive four years, in which one needs more education to get a job.    

Put down the pipe for a second here.....

How many businesses will look....even LOOK at a resume if there isn't a college degree listed?
I am all for lowering the cost of education, however, to say that an undergrad degree is useless is foolish.
I get that you aren't going to step into a leadership position just bc you have a degree, however, the world we live in isn't accepting applications for your (an applicants)  fancy GED degree and your hard knocks experience.

pbr thinks your correct here reg...looking back on it if pbr had gone to trade school and say either gotten his plumbers/hvac/electricians license pbr could make a pretty good case for making some serious coin by now...several of pbr's friends did this and started their own business and now have anywhere from 6-20 people working for them. if some of them had any kind of business sense they would be toning it by now. they are not saddled w/ any kind of debt and several of them are doing very very good for themselves. 1 of the biggest factors is all those doods barter w/ each other. so their weekend shore house gets built all on favors from each other for almost no money.

Depending upon the degree one receives the value add from said institution, could be negligible.

[lewdogg11]

Some other factors to consider:

time spent getting the degree while losing 4-8 years of income, plus the interest on the income

the collateral debt that many of us take on in college and grad school such as high interest credit card debt

time lost having not been vested in a retirement account

brain cells lost funneling PBR at low level college football games

Right, you can throw all of your life experience away, just so you can make 30K a year for 4 years mowing lawns and working 60 hour weeks.  I don't usually reminisce and tell stories about a good day at work that I had 3 years ago, but I have plenty from the time I wasted with a low level football program.  Would you rather retire 4-8 years earlier and THEN try to have fun when your balls touch the ground?

[Doid23]

I agree with many of the comments and criticisms of liberal arts degrees (especially the rise in college costs vs. the rise in wages, as well as the cause of much of this, debt), but in the end, what I've discovered is that much of the world runs on networking and contacts, and schools add value by that network.

I don't think a Yale or Harvard education is substantially (or at all) better than the education at many of the LL schools, but the reputation and contacts certainly are.

But in the end, this cycle cannot continue, and eventually sanity will come, kicking and screaming, to the education sector.

I found this article interesting, especially some of the rationalization of SUNY salaries:
http://www.lohud.com/article/20100207/NEWS05/2070361/1442/newsfront2/100G-state-workers-up-16-in-09

[PBR...]

some of the biggest things you pay for when attending college is the networking for jobs afterwards. the ivy league schools yes you pay a ton if not on some kind of grant, etc... but they hire their own. same w/ schools like villanova, william&mary etc. all good academic schools but the biggest thing pbr see's is the networking and how many ivy league grads do nothing but interview people from their own schools. so a fair number of people get jobs right out of school in m&a or traders asst. making nice coin all because they graduated from a certain school and people feel pressured to hire someone from their own school