FB: Liberty League

[Regulator]

Some other factors to consider:

time spent getting the degree while losing 4-8 years of income, plus the interest on the income

the collateral debt that many of us take on in college and grad school such as high interest credit card debt

time lost having not been vested in a retirement account

brain cells lost funneling PBR at low level college football games

Right, you can throw all of your life experience away, just so you can make 30K a year for 4 years mowing lawns and working 60 hour weeks.  I don't usually reminisce and tell stories about a good day at work that I had 3 years ago, but I have plenty from the time I wasted with a low level football program.  Would you rather retire 4-8 years earlier and THEN try to have fun when your balls touch the ground?

this was an economic discussion, though thanks for the humor you shed on such a boring topic.   Trust me I wouldnt trade the college parties either, but dollar for dollar I am way behind as a result of undergrad and law school loans.

You have to think about the education in terms of net present value.  Sure it is going to cost you money to go to school and law school, however, over the long haul, what premium can a college educated worker make over a non-educated one?
I have this fancy spreadsheet that I placed together a 1.1m gap over a 40 year career.

Use 40 years as time.  I am guessing you have positive cash flows within 5 years and have reached a break even point of your education within 8.  I bet you surpass the net income of your non-educated job in 10 years (since you would have started 4 years earlier)

['gro]

You have to think about the education in terms of net present value.  Sure it is going to cost you money to go to school and law school, however, over the long haul, what premium can a college educated worker make over a non-educated one?
I have this fancy spreadsheet that I placed together a 1.1m gap over a 40 year career.

Use 40 years as time.  I am guessing you have positive cash flows within 5 years and have reached a break even point of your education within 8.  I bet you surpass the net income of your non-educated job in 10 years (since you would have started 4 years earlier)

impressive reg, are you sure shelly in accounting didn't "help" you with that one? Or did you just watch this commercial...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WYS5NtRXlZQ

[Regulator]

Come on Gro!.....you know Reg is always good for a little NPV!

Let me see if I can work this ish up.

[Jonny Utah]

You have to think about the education in terms of net present value.  Sure it is going to cost you money to go to school and law school, however, over the long haul, what premium can a college educated worker make over a non-educated one?
I have this fancy spreadsheet that I placed together a 1.1m gap over a 40 year career.

Use 40 years as time.  I am guessing you have positive cash flows within 5 years and have reached a break even point of your education within 8.  I bet you surpass the net income of your non-educated job in 10 years (since you would have started 4 years earlier)

impressive reg, are you sure shelly in accounting didn't "help" you with that one? Or did you just watch this commercial...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WYS5NtRXlZQ

+K Gro.  Ive never seen that one.  This is the one I always see.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=14Kv-KYpD10

College in your PJs!

[Knightstalker]

Some other factors to consider:

time spent getting the degree while losing 4-8 years of income, plus the interest on the income

the collateral debt that many of us take on in college and grad school such as high interest credit card debt

time lost having not been vested in a retirement account

brain cells lost funneling PBR at low level college football games

Right, you can throw all of your life experience away, just so you can make 30K a year for 4 years mowing lawns and working 60 hour weeks.  I don't usually reminisce and tell stories about a good day at work that I had 3 years ago, but I have plenty from the time I wasted with a low level football program.  Would you rather retire 4-8 years earlier and THEN try to have fun when your balls touch the ground?

The As on TV companies have invented face and neck exercisers to keep the skin taught on the older folks.  JT is banking on the ball sack exerciser before JT has to worry about saggy balls.  JT really misses Billy Mays.  He'd have been perfect for the product in 15-20 years.

KS will have to start working on that one, and pitch it to Durcheep and the boyz, but KS wants to be the pitch man for the "Ball Booster", maybe "Sack Stiffener".

['gro]

You have to think about the education in terms of net present value.  Sure it is going to cost you money to go to school and law school, however, over the long haul, what premium can a college educated worker make over a non-educated one?
I have this fancy spreadsheet that I placed together a 1.1m gap over a 40 year career.

Use 40 years as time.  I am guessing you have positive cash flows within 5 years and have reached a break even point of your education within 8.  I bet you surpass the net income of your non-educated job in 10 years (since you would have started 4 years earlier)

impressive reg, are you sure shelly in accounting didn't "help" you with that one? Or did you just watch this commercial...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WYS5NtRXlZQ

+K Gro.  Ive never seen that one.  This is the one I always see.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=14Kv-KYpD10

College in your PJs!

That commercial plays CONSTANTLY...  beware of catchy jingles especially that free credit report one. That's a scam run by the credit agencies to sign you up for "credit protection". You're entitled by law to get a free report annually, no need to sign up for extra stuff.

[Jonny Utah]

You have to think about the education in terms of net present value.  Sure it is going to cost you money to go to school and law school, however, over the long haul, what premium can a college educated worker make over a non-educated one?
I have this fancy spreadsheet that I placed together a 1.1m gap over a 40 year career.

Use 40 years as time.  I am guessing you have positive cash flows within 5 years and have reached a break even point of your education within 8.  I bet you surpass the net income of your non-educated job in 10 years (since you would have started 4 years earlier)

impressive reg, are you sure shelly in accounting didn't "help" you with that one? Or did you just watch this commercial...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WYS5NtRXlZQ

+K Gro.  Ive never seen that one.  This is the one I always see.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=14Kv-KYpD10

College in your PJs!

That commercial plays CONSTANTLY...  beware of catchy jingles especially that free credit report one. That's a scam run by the credit agencies to sign you up for "credit protection". You're entitled by law to get a free report annually, no need to sign up for extra stuff.

Right on Gro.  And its like a maze trying to get a free one without jumping through flaming hoops and not giving your credit card so you can "sign up for a month and if you don't cancel we will sign you up for ten years".

These "credit debt reduction" companies are shams too. 

[Frank Rossi]

Let me clarify a point.  The E8 has a valuable commidity...the AQ.  

IMHO, as long as they have four core members playing football,
and they can find 3 more affiliates to gain access to the AQ, then they are going to keep the AQ.

The other issue facing the E8 is where to find a 10-game schedule.  Once conference play starts, the even-membered conferences have every weekend scheduled from the 11th weekend backwards.

The Centennial will have games from Week #3 to #11.
The 8-member Liberty League may fill all 7 weeks from week #5 thru #11.

The Empire 8 will have to find games from somewhere.  Whether the initial contract was a 2-year deal for Salisbury and Frostburg, those guys will have to travel somewhere to get games.  The E8 wants the games and the AQ.  That 2-year contract may actually have a 2-year renewing aspect that most teams in the conference understand.  Games and the AQ are driving this, IMHO.

I just wonder if the E8 will take all four CAC teams.  What might disrupt this E8 affiliation with the CAC?  New football programs in the CAC or new members from the South, e.g. CNU and Shenandoah, as the shuffle continues.  But we have not seen that happening, JMO.

I think that the E8 affliliations will continue.  The E8 might pick up a few other SUNYAC schools in the future as travel costs continue to go up.

From what I understand, the SUNYAC schools flat out rejected the E8's overtures, with the exception of Buffalo State.  Travel costs were even higher when those overtures were made, making that likelihood pretty low.

[Jonny Utah]

Let me clarify a point.  The E8 has a valuable commidity...the AQ.  

IMHO, as long as they have four core members playing football,
and they can find 3 more affiliates to gain access to the AQ, then they are going to keep the AQ.

The other issue facing the E8 is where to find a 10-game schedule.  Once conference play starts, the even-membered conferences have every weekend scheduled from the 11th weekend backwards.

The Centennial will have games from Week #3 to #11.
The 8-member Liberty League may fill all 7 weeks from week #5 thru #11.

The Empire 8 will have to find games from somewhere.  Whether the initial contract was a 2-year deal for Salisbury and Frostburg, those guys will have to travel somewhere to get games.  The E8 wants the games and the AQ.  That 2-year contract may actually have a 2-year renewing aspect that most teams in the conference understand.  Games and the AQ are driving this, IMHO.

I just wonder if the E8 will take all four CAC teams.  What might disrupt this E8 affiliation with the CAC?  New football programs in the CAC or new members from the South, e.g. CNU and Shenandoah, as the shuffle continues.  But we have not seen that happening, JMO.

I think that the E8 affliliations will continue.  The E8 might pick up a few other SUNYAC schools in the future as travel costs continue to go up.

From what I understand, the SUNYAC schools flat out rejected the E8's overtures, with the exception of Buffalo State.  Travel costs were even higher when those overtures were made, making that likelihood pretty low.

Who makes the decisions with the SUNY schools though?  I mean, they are all state schools right?  Do the athletic directors have a say?  Do the presidents? Do the taxpayers of New York?

[JT]

You have to think about the education in terms of net present value.  Sure it is going to cost you money to go to school and law school, however, over the long haul, what premium can a college educated worker make over a non-educated one?
I have this fancy spreadsheet that I placed together a 1.1m gap over a 40 year career.

Use 40 years as time.  I am guessing you have positive cash flows within 5 years and have reached a break even point of your education within 8.  I bet you surpass the net income of your non-educated job in 10 years (since you would have started 4 years earlier)

impressive reg, are you sure shelly in accounting didn't "help" you with that one? Or did you just watch this commercial...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WYS5NtRXlZQ

+K Gro.  Ive never seen that one.  This is the one I always see.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=14Kv-KYpD10

College in your PJs!

That commercial plays CONSTANTLY...  beware of catchy jingles especially that free credit report one. That's a scam run by the credit agencies to sign you up for "credit protection". You're entitled by law to get a free report annually, no need to sign up for extra stuff.

Right on Gro.  And its like a maze trying to get a free one without jumping through flaming hoops and not giving your credit card so you can "sign up for a month and if you don't cancel we will sign you up for ten years".

These "credit debt reduction" companies are shams too.  

All credit card companies will deal, especially today.  Make you own deals and save money.  Just mention financial difficulties and ask what programs they have if you think you can still pay in full, like if they'll cut the interest rate to 6.0% - 8.0%.  Or if you owe a lot, and want to pay less that you owe, its called a settlement.  Ask for a settlement. Sometimes you may get 25-30 cents on the dollar (on a 3-6 month payoff).  Usually it is about 35-40 cents on the dollar.

Figure out the max you can pay each month on the debt, and work out the best deal.  Don't be afraid to play one offer off the other.  This is business, not personal.  And they don't care about you.

[Knightstalker]

You have to think about the education in terms of net present value.  Sure it is going to cost you money to go to school and law school, however, over the long haul, what premium can a college educated worker make over a non-educated one?
I have this fancy spreadsheet that I placed together a 1.1m gap over a 40 year career.

Use 40 years as time.  I am guessing you have positive cash flows within 5 years and have reached a break even point of your education within 8.  I bet you surpass the net income of your non-educated job in 10 years (since you would have started 4 years earlier)

impressive reg, are you sure shelly in accounting didn't "help" you with that one? Or did you just watch this commercial...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WYS5NtRXlZQ

+K Gro.  Ive never seen that one.  This is the one I always see.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=14Kv-KYpD10

College in your PJs!

That commercial plays CONSTANTLY...  beware of catchy jingles especially that free credit report one. That's a scam run by the credit agencies to sign you up for "credit protection". You're entitled by law to get a free report annually, no need to sign up for extra stuff.

Right on Gro.  And its like a maze trying to get a free one without jumping through flaming hoops and not giving your credit card so you can "sign up for a month and if you don't cancel we will sign you up for ten years".

These "credit debt reduction" companies are shams too.  

All credit card companies will deal, especially today.  Make you own deals and save money.  Just mention financial difficulties and ask what programs they have if you think you can still pay in full, like if they'll cut the interest rate to 6.0% - 8.0%.  Or if you owe a lot, and want to pay less that you owe, its called a settlement.  Ask for a settlement. Sometimes you may get 25-30 cents on the dollar (on a 3-6 month payoff).  Usually it is about 35-40 cents on the dollar.

Figure out the max you can pay each month on the debt, and work out the best deal.  Don't be afraid to play one offer off the other.  This is business, not personal.  And they don't care about you.

That is what KS older brother did.  EX Wife used Bros credit cards to pay property taxes and then used credit cards to pay off credit cards.  KS brother did not want to claim bankruptcy and he made deals with all the cc companies, they worked with him to get him out of debt, out of bankruptcy and maintained decent credit and has built it back to pretty good credit.

[Jonny Utah]

You have to think about the education in terms of net present value.  Sure it is going to cost you money to go to school and law school, however, over the long haul, what premium can a college educated worker make over a non-educated one?
I have this fancy spreadsheet that I placed together a 1.1m gap over a 40 year career.

Use 40 years as time.  I am guessing you have positive cash flows within 5 years and have reached a break even point of your education within 8.  I bet you surpass the net income of your non-educated job in 10 years (since you would have started 4 years earlier)

impressive reg, are you sure shelly in accounting didn't "help" you with that one? Or did you just watch this commercial...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WYS5NtRXlZQ

+K Gro.  Ive never seen that one.  This is the one I always see.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=14Kv-KYpD10

College in your PJs!

That commercial plays CONSTANTLY...  beware of catchy jingles especially that free credit report one. That's a scam run by the credit agencies to sign you up for "credit protection". You're entitled by law to get a free report annually, no need to sign up for extra stuff.

Right on Gro.  And its like a maze trying to get a free one without jumping through flaming hoops and not giving your credit card so you can "sign up for a month and if you don't cancel we will sign you up for ten years".

These "credit debt reduction" companies are shams too.  

All credit card companies will deal, especially today.  Make you own deals and save money.  Just mention financial difficulties and ask what programs they have if you think you can still pay in full, like if they'll cut the interest rate to 6.0% - 8.0%.  Or if you owe a lot, and want to pay less that you owe, its called a settlement.  Ask for a settlement. Sometimes you may get 25-30 cents on the dollar (on a 3-6 month payoff).  Usually it is about 35-40 cents on the dollar.

Figure out the max you can pay each month on the debt, and work out the best deal.  Don't be afraid to play one offer off the other.  This is business, not personal.  And they don't care about you.

That is what KS older brother did.  EX Wife used Bros credit cards to pay property taxes and then used credit cards to pay off credit cards.  KS brother did not want to claim bankruptcy and he made deals with all the cc companies, they worked with him to get him out of debt, out of bankruptcy and maintained decent credit and has built it back to pretty good credit.

I think it was a lot easier 10 years ago however.  At that time I was deep in credit card debt spread around 4 or 5 cards.  I basically called all of them and could get 0% balance transfers for no fee up to 12 months.  I did this for about 3 years and didn't pay any interest of finance fees. My wife and I tried to do the same thing recently but couldn't get anywhere.  I asked one card (that was at 25%) that I was going to transfer the fees and cancel the account and she and her boss manager didn't care.  They said there was nothing they could do.  This happened with another credid card company as well.  Much different experience than I had 10 years ago.  If we were in big trouble, we would probably be better off getting another card.

Wouldn't a settlement hurt your credit rating though?  I guess at some point getting out of the debt would be worth it though.

[mattvsmith]

Unless you want to work a trade, don't you need a degree?

There's always entrepreneurship.  Requires street smarts.  The Rev's favorite book on the topic of successful people is "The Millionaire Next Door." Demolishes the "go to school, study hard, get a good job as a doctor/lawyer/stockbroker, and be rich" myth.

A guy can also have a good life as a salesman without a degree.  The only problem is that it is tougher to get your foot in the door w/o it. One of The Rev's buddies was pulling 6-figures as a salesman and never set foot in so much as SUNY Morrisville.  Of course, when he lost his job and it was time to find a new one, HR people were horrified that someone without a degree could have his old position and make what he made that they were convinced he was lying.  So, true, it can help to have a degree just to say one has one, but it's more like a membership card than a mark of true learning.

The Rev's great-uncle Ike only did two years at Dartmouth and ended up being #2 at a mining company in Utah for decades.  No one ever said that he couldn't do it because he didn't have a degree.  That's a very recent mentality and one that has only hurt common people--it makes them think they are inferior or sub-human for not going to college.

[mattvsmith]

By the way,  The Rev cannot say that no one should go to school, or everyone should go to school, or any blanket statement.  The only blanket statement The Rev is willing to make is that the kid and family need to make the decisions based on what they think is good for them.  There is risk involved in every thing we do.  If families are willing to take the risk on paying for the BA/BA based on expectation of higher future earnings, they should by all means do it.

[dlippiel]

IDHO: In today's world one must:

-have at least a 4 year degree
or
-be proficient at a marketable trait
or
-have a preexisting successful business in the family

What is scary to dlip is that any or all of these don't guarantee **** regarding employment or one's success. Best bet though in dlip's mind is education. It, at the very least, can sometimes afford one something to fall back on and/or give one a possible step up on another when looking for work. Bottom line it is just tough out there.

*dlip also feels that educational institutions are totally taking advantage of the idea of an education being almost a "necessity" in todays world. The price and inflationary rate of tuition is ****ing atrocious and criminal. dlip has said this before but it happened again the other day. A student from UVM called dlip asking for a donation. dlip politely told the young lady that if UVM was willing to forgive his ab****ingserd undergraduate loans he would be glad to give an annual donation. If not please don't ever ****ing call him again. dlip was polite though honest. He realizes it was only a work study student just doing her job.