FB: Liberty League

[PBR...]

TheGrove, I think we have more in common than we do different. My point is that if the Crusaders see geography as a plus in the CC, why ever leave the MAC in the first place? Was the overall picture of academia in our leage really that bad that SU needed to escape the good ship Middle Atlantic? I can only speak for one MAC school on personal experience, but I would put my education against the outstanding communications program at SU, or any other LL or CC school, on any day of the week.

No disrespect to Juniata, as the distance made for few connections with our players and fans. Moravian was tougher, as we had a good rivalry with the Greyhounds and our Lehigh Valley guys (not to mention Coach Shep) always were  up for that one. But when Susquehanna walked out the door.....that was a disappointing day in Coloneland my friend. No that the league needed any of the three defectors to survivie, but it was always nothing but good times with SU. It dosen;t hurt that we won most of the latter games in the series  but it went well beyond that, to the friendships betwene so many players, coaches, administrators, and fans at both schools.

As for our visits to SU, indeed you are welcome for the compliment  That was a great time- someday Coach Shep and I need to have a brew and talk about it! We also played out there my junior year in men's basketball and had a great game, withstanding a Josh Robinson rampage to hang on for the W. But my favorite memory comes from my  freshman season of Wilkes Football, in 2004, when the first half was played in a driving rainstorm. Because of that wonderful roof over the press box, I was dry as a bone while everyone else was soaked. Someday, I am going to track down whoever decided to put that roof on there and buy him/her a drink- they deserve it!

The MAC-to-LL jump was not about geography - it was about "academics." Not so much to say our academics are better than yours, but TPTB felt that there were different focuses on that front all around the conference. Hence that whole "like-minded institution" catchword (which, BTW, I'm sick to death of hearing - it keeps getting thrown back at us on the Landmark board from other bitter MAC-ers).

However, as a Susquehanna communications alumna, I'll take your challenge. 

There are definitely some MAC schools I miss. I'm definitely a traditionalist. I have a few lively memories in your gym, G-man. BTW, I didn't realize you were such a young'un. I would not have been one of the lovely ladies of which you speak, though my sister may have been. 

darn right we are bitter...we liked having that easy W on the schedule every year and now had to go out and find another cupcake for homecoming...

[TheGrove]

TheGrove, I think we have more in common than we do different. My point is that if the Crusaders see geography as a plus in the CC, why ever leave the MAC in the first place? Was the overall picture of academia in our leage really that bad that SU needed to escape the good ship Middle Atlantic? I can only speak for one MAC school on personal experience, but I would put my education against the outstanding communications program at SU, or any other LL or CC school, on any day of the week.

No disrespect to Juniata, as the distance made for few connections with our players and fans. Moravian was tougher, as we had a good rivalry with the Greyhounds and our Lehigh Valley guys (not to mention Coach Shep) always were  up for that one. But when Susquehanna walked out the door.....that was a disappointing day in Coloneland my friend. No that the league needed any of the three defectors to survivie, but it was always nothing but good times with SU. It dosen;t hurt that we won most of the latter games in the series  but it went well beyond that, to the friendships betwene so many players, coaches, administrators, and fans at both schools.

As for our visits to SU, indeed you are welcome for the compliment  That was a great time- someday Coach Shep and I need to have a brew and talk about it! We also played out there my junior year in men's basketball and had a great game, withstanding a Josh Robinson rampage to hang on for the W. But my favorite memory comes from my  freshman season of Wilkes Football, in 2004, when the first half was played in a driving rainstorm. Because of that wonderful roof over the press box, I was dry as a bone while everyone else was soaked. Someday, I am going to track down whoever decided to put that roof on there and buy him/her a drink- they deserve it!

The MAC-to-LL jump was not about geography - it was about "academics." Not so much to say our academics are better than yours, but TPTB felt that there were different focuses on that front all around the conference. Hence that whole "like-minded institution" catchword (which, BTW, I'm sick to death of hearing - it keeps getting thrown back at us on the Landmark board from other bitter MAC-ers).

However, as a Susquehanna communications alumna, I'll take your challenge. 

There are definitely some MAC schools I miss. I'm definitely a traditionalist. I have a few lively memories in your gym, G-man. BTW, I didn't realize you were such a young'un. I would not have been one of the lovely ladies of which you speak, though my sister may have been. 

darn right we are bitter...we liked having that easy W on the schedule every year and now had to go out and find another cupcake for homecoming...

Such short memories you kids have... SU wasn't always the cupcake, you know. In fact, the cupcakes seemed to switch in about a five-year span between when I graduated and when I came back.

[labart96]

Rev - according to TGP Sr majoring in english was the biggest key to his banking career.  not a lot of folks out there can write and/or commmunicate effectively.  you definitely get that at a lib arts school vs. McUniversities.

[Jonny Utah]

Rev - according to TGP Sr majoring in english was the biggest key to his banking career.  not a lot of folks out there can write and/or commmunicate effectively.  you definitely get that at a lib arts school vs. McUniversities.

You know what isn't that hard to get either is the 'dual major'.  Most programs only require 36 specific credits within a department and you can get the other 100 with 'electives'.  If you take 36 of those 'elective credits' within the other major, you can basically have "two degrees" without much work.

[mattvsmith]

Rev - according to TGP Sr majoring in english was the biggest key to his banking career.  not a lot of folks out there can write and/or commmunicate effectively.  you definitely get that at a lib arts school vs. McUniversities.

B'lee dat.  The Rev has to admit that even in Aviation, his English and Religious Studies came in handy at times.

I remember one class some kid couldn't figure out some "soft financing" of airlines in Muslim countries.  I taught the class about anti-usury laws in Islam and pre-Reformation Christianity.  Basically, the Islamic-owned airlines had to use a funny financing scheme so that they could take out loans for non-productive purposes without breaking the anti-usury laws, which is why they looked funny to us...as if they had cooked the books a little.

Sometimes it helps to know random Sh!t.  It was a real Cliff Claven moment, but from then on people looked to the Rev for esoteric answers.

The Rev will have to credit  Mary Gerhart's "The Koran and the Bible: Do they mean what they say" course, spring 1991. 

Looks like it really was a $64,000 question!!!

[PBR...]

TheGrove, I think we have more in common than we do different. My point is that if the Crusaders see geography as a plus in the CC, why ever leave the MAC in the first place? Was the overall picture of academia in our leage really that bad that SU needed to escape the good ship Middle Atlantic? I can only speak for one MAC school on personal experience, but I would put my education against the outstanding communications program at SU, or any other LL or CC school, on any day of the week.

No disrespect to Juniata, as the distance made for few connections with our players and fans. Moravian was tougher, as we had a good rivalry with the Greyhounds and our Lehigh Valley guys (not to mention Coach Shep) always were  up for that one. But when Susquehanna walked out the door.....that was a disappointing day in Coloneland my friend. No that the league needed any of the three defectors to survivie, but it was always nothing but good times with SU. It dosen;t hurt that we won most of the latter games in the series  but it went well beyond that, to the friendships betwene so many players, coaches, administrators, and fans at both schools.

As for our visits to SU, indeed you are welcome for the compliment  That was a great time- someday Coach Shep and I need to have a brew and talk about it! We also played out there my junior year in men's basketball and had a great game, withstanding a Josh Robinson rampage to hang on for the W. But my favorite memory comes from my  freshman season of Wilkes Football, in 2004, when the first half was played in a driving rainstorm. Because of that wonderful roof over the press box, I was dry as a bone while everyone else was soaked. Someday, I am going to track down whoever decided to put that roof on there and buy him/her a drink- they deserve it!

The MAC-to-LL jump was not about geography - it was about "academics." Not so much to say our academics are better than yours, but TPTB felt that there were different focuses on that front all around the conference. Hence that whole "like-minded institution" catchword (which, BTW, I'm sick to death of hearing - it keeps getting thrown back at us on the Landmark board from other bitter MAC-ers).

However, as a Susquehanna communications alumna, I'll take your challenge. 

There are definitely some MAC schools I miss. I'm definitely a traditionalist. I have a few lively memories in your gym, G-man. BTW, I didn't realize you were such a young'un. I would not have been one of the lovely ladies of which you speak, though my sister may have been. 

darn right we are bitter...we liked having that easy W on the schedule every year and now had to go out and find another cupcake for homecoming...

Such short memories you kids have... SU wasn't always the cupcake, you know. In fact, the cupcakes seemed to switch in about a five-year span between when I graduated and when I came back.

cant live in the past otherwise you end up like notre dame!  

[TheGrove]

TheGrove, I think we have more in common than we do different. My point is that if the Crusaders see geography as a plus in the CC, why ever leave the MAC in the first place? Was the overall picture of academia in our leage really that bad that SU needed to escape the good ship Middle Atlantic? I can only speak for one MAC school on personal experience, but I would put my education against the outstanding communications program at SU, or any other LL or CC school, on any day of the week.

No disrespect to Juniata, as the distance made for few connections with our players and fans. Moravian was tougher, as we had a good rivalry with the Greyhounds and our Lehigh Valley guys (not to mention Coach Shep) always were  up for that one. But when Susquehanna walked out the door.....that was a disappointing day in Coloneland my friend. No that the league needed any of the three defectors to survivie, but it was always nothing but good times with SU. It dosen;t hurt that we won most of the latter games in the series  but it went well beyond that, to the friendships betwene so many players, coaches, administrators, and fans at both schools.

As for our visits to SU, indeed you are welcome for the compliment  That was a great time- someday Coach Shep and I need to have a brew and talk about it! We also played out there my junior year in men's basketball and had a great game, withstanding a Josh Robinson rampage to hang on for the W. But my favorite memory comes from my  freshman season of Wilkes Football, in 2004, when the first half was played in a driving rainstorm. Because of that wonderful roof over the press box, I was dry as a bone while everyone else was soaked. Someday, I am going to track down whoever decided to put that roof on there and buy him/her a drink- they deserve it!

The MAC-to-LL jump was not about geography - it was about "academics." Not so much to say our academics are better than yours, but TPTB felt that there were different focuses on that front all around the conference. Hence that whole "like-minded institution" catchword (which, BTW, I'm sick to death of hearing - it keeps getting thrown back at us on the Landmark board from other bitter MAC-ers).

However, as a Susquehanna communications alumna, I'll take your challenge. 

There are definitely some MAC schools I miss. I'm definitely a traditionalist. I have a few lively memories in your gym, G-man. BTW, I didn't realize you were such a young'un. I would not have been one of the lovely ladies of which you speak, though my sister may have been. 

darn right we are bitter...we liked having that easy W on the schedule every year and now had to go out and find another cupcake for homecoming...

Such short memories you kids have... SU wasn't always the cupcake, you know. In fact, the cupcakes seemed to switch in about a five-year span between when I graduated and when I came back.

cant live in the past otherwise you end up like notre dame!  

does that mean I should stop basking in the glow of the 2009 Liberty League championship?? 

[Lyco80]

I was out of commission for a couple of days - no power, lots of snow, bitter cold in the house.

The only upside?  Mrs. Lyco happy to snuggle a lot for body heat - those of you who speak Simpsonese will understand.

Now - another 15-24 inches coming our way today and tomorrow.

Good discussion regarding college costs and the value of the preparation.

I miss having Susquehanna on the schedule wherever they decide to call home.

Jumping around from league to league is a curious way to demonstrate anything positive though.

If your academics are so superior shouldn't you be capable of making the appropriate decision the first time?

Still - the Stagg Hat usually resides in Williamsport which is as it should be.

Can someone get Mr. Al Gore on the phone for me - I bought another snow shovel for him to use while he updates me on the impact of global warming as we clear my driveway for the fourth time this season.

Great comments to all - I love the LL page!

ATB

[PBR...]

TheGrove, I think we have more in common than we do different. My point is that if the Crusaders see geography as a plus in the CC, why ever leave the MAC in the first place? Was the overall picture of academia in our leage really that bad that SU needed to escape the good ship Middle Atlantic? I can only speak for one MAC school on personal experience, but I would put my education against the outstanding communications program at SU, or any other LL or CC school, on any day of the week.

No disrespect to Juniata, as the distance made for few connections with our players and fans. Moravian was tougher, as we had a good rivalry with the Greyhounds and our Lehigh Valley guys (not to mention Coach Shep) always were  up for that one. But when Susquehanna walked out the door.....that was a disappointing day in Coloneland my friend. No that the league needed any of the three defectors to survivie, but it was always nothing but good times with SU. It dosen;t hurt that we won most of the latter games in the series  but it went well beyond that, to the friendships betwene so many players, coaches, administrators, and fans at both schools.

As for our visits to SU, indeed you are welcome for the compliment  That was a great time- someday Coach Shep and I need to have a brew and talk about it! We also played out there my junior year in men's basketball and had a great game, withstanding a Josh Robinson rampage to hang on for the W. But my favorite memory comes from my  freshman season of Wilkes Football, in 2004, when the first half was played in a driving rainstorm. Because of that wonderful roof over the press box, I was dry as a bone while everyone else was soaked. Someday, I am going to track down whoever decided to put that roof on there and buy him/her a drink- they deserve it!

The MAC-to-LL jump was not about geography - it was about "academics." Not so much to say our academics are better than yours, but TPTB felt that there were different focuses on that front all around the conference. Hence that whole "like-minded institution" catchword (which, BTW, I'm sick to death of hearing - it keeps getting thrown back at us on the Landmark board from other bitter MAC-ers).

However, as a Susquehanna communications alumna, I'll take your challenge. 

There are definitely some MAC schools I miss. I'm definitely a traditionalist. I have a few lively memories in your gym, G-man. BTW, I didn't realize you were such a young'un. I would not have been one of the lovely ladies of which you speak, though my sister may have been. 

darn right we are bitter...we liked having that easy W on the schedule every year and now had to go out and find another cupcake for homecoming...

Such short memories you kids have... SU wasn't always the cupcake, you know. In fact, the cupcakes seemed to switch in about a five-year span between when I graduated and when I came back.

cant live in the past otherwise you end up like notre dame!  

does that mean I should stop basking in the glow of the 2009 Liberty League championship?? 

not at all! (when was the last mac championship for susquatch again?) 

[TheGrove]

TheGrove, I think we have more in common than we do different. My point is that if the Crusaders see geography as a plus in the CC, why ever leave the MAC in the first place? Was the overall picture of academia in our leage really that bad that SU needed to escape the good ship Middle Atlantic? I can only speak for one MAC school on personal experience, but I would put my education against the outstanding communications program at SU, or any other LL or CC school, on any day of the week.

No disrespect to Juniata, as the distance made for few connections with our players and fans. Moravian was tougher, as we had a good rivalry with the Greyhounds and our Lehigh Valley guys (not to mention Coach Shep) always were  up for that one. But when Susquehanna walked out the door.....that was a disappointing day in Coloneland my friend. No that the league needed any of the three defectors to survivie, but it was always nothing but good times with SU. It dosen;t hurt that we won most of the latter games in the series  but it went well beyond that, to the friendships betwene so many players, coaches, administrators, and fans at both schools.

As for our visits to SU, indeed you are welcome for the compliment  That was a great time- someday Coach Shep and I need to have a brew and talk about it! We also played out there my junior year in men's basketball and had a great game, withstanding a Josh Robinson rampage to hang on for the W. But my favorite memory comes from my  freshman season of Wilkes Football, in 2004, when the first half was played in a driving rainstorm. Because of that wonderful roof over the press box, I was dry as a bone while everyone else was soaked. Someday, I am going to track down whoever decided to put that roof on there and buy him/her a drink- they deserve it!

The MAC-to-LL jump was not about geography - it was about "academics." Not so much to say our academics are better than yours, but TPTB felt that there were different focuses on that front all around the conference. Hence that whole "like-minded institution" catchword (which, BTW, I'm sick to death of hearing - it keeps getting thrown back at us on the Landmark board from other bitter MAC-ers).

However, as a Susquehanna communications alumna, I'll take your challenge. 

There are definitely some MAC schools I miss. I'm definitely a traditionalist. I have a few lively memories in your gym, G-man. BTW, I didn't realize you were such a young'un. I would not have been one of the lovely ladies of which you speak, though my sister may have been. 

darn right we are bitter...we liked having that easy W on the schedule every year and now had to go out and find another cupcake for homecoming...

Such short memories you kids have... SU wasn't always the cupcake, you know. In fact, the cupcakes seemed to switch in about a five-year span between when I graduated and when I came back.

cant live in the past otherwise you end up like notre dame!  

does that mean I should stop basking in the glow of the 2009 Liberty League championship?? 

not at all! (when was the last mac championship for susquatch again?) 

Hey, we won the Commonwealth in '99...

[pumkinattack]

Probably instead of the a** whupping you took in the playoffs (Bart's been on the wrong side of a few this decade).  

RE: College.  It's a ripoff, but necessary.  I place a lot of intrinsic value on education and having spent a full semester at SUNY Binghamton (really large 100 and 200 level courses in Pol Sci, Econ, Phil and English) and being at Hobart (largest class was probably 35), as well as graduate school at American University and some classes at NYU, I've seen it all, pretty much.  I really like the liberal arts model, personally because I've seen a lot of kids from large universities who didn't learn how to think, which is really what you get out of college.  All this being said, the fact that the sticker price has gone up so much and the quality of eduacation hasn't changed that much is a huge problem (grad school is very different because I've met a ton of Columbia MBA's from the 70's and 80's who will tell you they couldn't hack it today, but it hasn't impacted their careers because once you get to the VP level or so, it's all about relationships).  I think the price increase has sort of created a generation of entitled people, my generation, because school has really become like club med.  It's not that the BA is necessarily devalued, but that the mentality around obtaining higher education has been bastardized and the ivory tower administrators who lack any spine or understanding of leadership are completely to blame.  

JU is right on about 2x majors.  At Hobart, outside Econ, I had a second major in European studies and between my abroad semester in Denmark, taking a year plus in Russian (which I made the case was an extension of Europe, which was the forward thinking perspective at the time, not figuring that they'd revert to an iron grip oligopoly) it was relatively easy to get the interdisciplinary second major.

I don't disagree with the Rev, though, that some lesser performing schools could go by the wayside.  When you fix expenses and cannot maintain or increase revenues it happens.  That's why SUNY Bingo is a SUNY - used to be private.  What'll be interesting is what happens to schools which were clearly supported by local industry that is no more.  How much of UM's prestige is based on the management training program jobs many students could get at the Big 3, for example?  How about Lehigh in Bethlehem?  They'll survive, but it's not inconceivable that their standing will change over time.  Grinnell was not considered a top notch school until it got a bunch of WalMart stock about, waht 20 years ago.  

On credit cards.  The companies aren't necessarily forthcoming, however, I don't have sympathy for people who live beyond their means without justification.  I'm sure there are people who are trying to stay afloat in good faith, but I've known a lot of people who just use it without thinking on very discretionary expenses and tehn all of the sudden end up with $30k balances and have an event or whatever and it becomes an issue.  Unless it was specifically reimburseable, I never went over $3k in good times or bad and always paid as big of chunks as possible.  Now that I'm working for myself, making decent money over the last 8 months, but sporadic (w/no benefits or stability, however), it's a great benefit to not have that fixed monthly payment of a couple hundred bucks a month or whatever it would be.  

[PBR...]

Probably instead of the a** whupping you took in the playoffs (Bart's been on the wrong side of a few this decade).  

RE: College.  It's a ripoff, but necessary.  I place a lot of intrinsic value on education and having spent a full semester at SUNY Binghamton (really large 100 and 200 level courses in Pol Sci, Econ, Phil and English) and being at Hobart (largest class was probably 35), as well as graduate school at American University and some classes at NYU, I've seen it all, pretty much.  I really like the liberal arts model, personally because I've seen a lot of kids from large universities who didn't learn how to think, which is really what you get out of college.  All this being said, the fact that the sticker price has gone up so much and the quality of eduacation hasn't changed that much is a huge problem (grad school is very different because I've met a ton of Columbia MBA's from the 70's and 80's who will tell you they couldn't hack it today, but it hasn't impacted their careers because once you get to the VP level or so, it's all about relationships).  I think the price increase has sort of created a generation of entitled people, my generation, because school has really become like club med.  It's not that the BA is necessarily devalued, but that the mentality around obtaining higher education has been bastardized and the ivory tower administrators who lack any spine or understanding of leadership are completely to blame.  

JU is right on about 2x majors.  At Hobart, outside Econ, I had a second major in European studies and between my abroad semester in Denmark, taking a year plus in Russian (which I made the case was an extension of Europe, which was the forward thinking perspective at the time, not figuring that they'd revert to an iron grip oligopoly) it was relatively easy to get the interdisciplinary second major.

I don't disagree with the Rev, though, that some lesser performing schools could go by the wayside.  When you fix expenses and cannot maintain or increase revenues it happens.  That's why SUNY Bingo is a SUNY - used to be private.  What'll be interesting is what happens to schools which were clearly supported by local industry that is no more.  How much of UM's prestige is based on the management training program jobs many students could get at the Big 3, for example?  How about Lehigh in Bethlehem?  They'll survive, but it's not inconceivable that their standing will change over time.  Grinnell was not considered a top notch school until it got a bunch of WalMart stock about, waht 20 years ago.  

On credit cards.  The companies aren't necessarily forthcoming, however, I don't have sympathy for people who live beyond their means without justification.  I'm sure there are people who are trying to stay afloat in good faith, but I've known a lot of people who just use it without thinking on very discretionary expenses and tehn all of the sudden end up with $30k balances and have an event or whatever and it becomes an issue.  Unless it was specifically reimburseable, I never went over $3k in good times or bad and always paid as big of chunks as possible.  Now that I'm working for myself, making decent money over the last 8 months, but sporadic (w/no benefits or stability, however), it's a great benefit to not have that fixed monthly payment of a couple hundred bucks a month or whatever it would be.  

Lehigh if anything is getting stronger...

[pumkinattack]

I don't really follow the school except for a little in lacrosse, so I don't know, just using an example from an area that's had a huge economic decline (I guess I could use Franklin and Marshall instead).  The point is that there is an undeniable relationship between local employer strength and some/many schools.  I don't think colleges are any different than corporations in many ways and go look at the nifty fifty from the 70's or 80's.  Pretty different today.  I don't think schools have this intractable lock on their relative position because I think that the self selection that goes on in the hiring process is going to change in the future.  It'll take a long time and I have no idea who the winners and losers are, but Duke blew up in the 50's and 60's as basically a "new money" school (compared with Ivy's etc.) meanwhile Fordham's reputation has dropped a bit over the last 20 years, so there's some moevement. 

[PBR...]

I don't really follow the school except for a little in lacrosse, so I don't know, just using an example from an area that's had a huge economic decline (I guess I could use Franklin and Marshall instead).  The point is that there is an undeniable relationship between local employer strength and some/many schools.  I don't think colleges are any different than corporations in many ways and go look at the nifty fifty from the 70's or 80's.  Pretty different today.  I don't think schools have this intractable lock on their relative position because I think that the self selection that goes on in the hiring process is going to change in the future.  It'll take a long time and I have no idea who the winners and losers are, but Duke blew up in the 50's and 60's as basically a "new money" school (compared with Ivy's etc.) meanwhile Fordham's reputation has dropped a bit over the last 20 years, so there's some moevement. 

its fantastic finally someone has started taking over the bethlehem steel property...the casinos!! its fantastic...just passed law to allow real human dealers at the tables instead of electronic dealers and its all just 20 minutes from pbr's house! no more a.c. trips needed....pbr will tell you thought allentown/bethlehem/easton have a boatload of all different size colleges in and around them and all very good academically... lehigh/lafayette/moravian/muhlenberg/desales etc

[BTEXPRESS]

I don't really follow the school except for a little in lacrosse, so I don't know, just using an example from an area that's had a huge economic decline (I guess I could use Franklin and Marshall instead).  The point is that there is an undeniable relationship between local employer strength and some/many schools.  I don't think colleges are any different than corporations in many ways and go look at the nifty fifty from the 70's or 80's.  Pretty different today.  I don't think schools have this intractable lock on their relative position because I think that the self selection that goes on in the hiring process is going to change in the future.  It'll take a long time and I have no idea who the winners and losers are, but Duke blew up in the 50's and 60's as basically a "new money" school (compared with Ivy's etc.) meanwhile Fordham's reputation has dropped a bit over the last 20 years, so there's some moevement.  

Good examples of Duke and Fordham. Twenty years ago, Fordham was the VILLANOVA of today. I really believe TV and sports have helped the Duke's of the world become household names. Another example is how the Big East has helped schools Like Georgetown, Villanova,Providence, Seton Hall and St Johns, yet schools like St Joe's, St Bonaventure, Fordham and LaSalle who are all about the same size and like minded institutions are not held in the same esteem. All these schools are located in or near cities who have fallen on tough economic times, yet seem to be thriving.