FB: Liberty League

[lewdogg11]

Didn't TCNJ have the top rated or close to the top rated D a couple of years ago and as soon as they got out of region they got stomped on?  I know it was Mount doing the stomping but still they had a top ranked D.  A team can have a highly ranked D but if they are achieving it against the Blind Sisters of the Poor then it will get exposed.

Blind AND Poor?  Man, that is a tough hand.

[Knightstalker]

Didn't TCNJ have the top rated or close to the top rated D a couple of years ago and as soon as they got out of region they got stomped on?  I know it was Mount doing the stomping but still they had a top ranked D.  A team can have a highly ranked D but if they are achieving it against the Blind Sisters of the Poor then it will get exposed.

Blind AND Poor?  Man, that is a tough hand.

They never complain or hold it against God though.  And they play dirty.

[Bombers798891]

I think these next two Union games will be big as far as the LL is concerned. They're playing teams I think will finish 5th and 6th in the E8 this year. Sure, wins wouldn't carry the weight of say, beating Alfred, or SJF. But losing could indicate major problems, because Ithaca and Utica don't figure to be in the conference hunt. Two big weeks for the Dutchmen

Random question that has probably been answered on these boards: Only eight games for Hobart? How did that come about?

[Frank Rossi]

Note:  My statement concerning Salve was made without relative comparison to Union, the Liberty League or any other conference other than the NEFC.  It was made solely to refute LD's assumption that Salve is the 5th best 2011 NEFC team (in what I assume is a slightly exaggerated statement to show he doesn't have faith in Salve).  Salve has now won six games in a row, five of which were league games.  They beat Curry and Plymouth State during that run.  That's my science on this matter.  You guys can debate among yourselves how one game defines the relative strength of two conferences.  I'll go get some Starbucks and watch.

All i'm saying is in the eternal optimism of hoping that the LL is going to overcome their downward spiral of late, it didn't start well.

Rome wasn't built in a day, either.  There was one day in 2009 during which we could've used the same logic to say the E8 and NEFC were equal strength conferences.  One season later, the E8 was #4 in the country.  So, it's a bit far-fetched to put all your eggs in one game's basket.  The 1-4 (technically 1-3 because of the D2 game) result isn't good.  However, MMA hung with Johns Hopkins for a half in a game that could only make MMA a better team (it was a reach in scheduling, and Toop admitted as much to us before the season -- yet, I like teams that reach).  SLU actually got a lot better in the second half with a first-time starter at QB and Marcus Washington scoring three TDs.  I'm still scratching my head about how the defense spotted Utica as many points as it did early.  We'll learn a lot more about Utica (and Union, for that matter) this weekend. 

My long story short is that rebuilding relative strength of a conference takes time.  Ask the NJAC after a real lull in the mid-2000s when "The Beast" was tamed finally.  The NJAC is back somewhat now, and it takes patience, pro-active scheduling and top-level recruiting.  I like what Landis said about his scheduling philosophy in our interview with him.  I like Union's scheduling since, even with the loss, the team is in a lot better position than it was a year ago based on the fact that there are two more games to be played before the team enters LL play.  Rochester and Hobart seem to have upped their scheduling game over the past couple years.  The teams are, in general, doing the right things to start that process.  I hope, as much as you do, that it leads to wins soon just so that we have it in concrete form.

[Frank Rossi]

Random question that has probably been answered on these boards: Only eight games for Hobart? How did that come about?

Widener backed out based on the debut of the PAC/MAC and NJAC/MAC challenges (PAC/MAC is next year).  Also, Stevenson becoming a full-time football member made Widener's schedule full.  From what we can tell, Hobart lacked some pro-activity with respect to approaching Widener when it was obvious that the 2012 game was already in jeopardy (and it was a reciprocal agreement).  Hobart didn't act until Widener notified them officially, and they ended up waiting too long to find an acceptable opponent (Wesley offered, but Hobart declined -- which I think was a bad decision by Hobart since Pool C is irrelevant this year for a 7-1 team, assuming Hobart lost the LL with the best possible record... it's a game that would've taught Hobart a lot about itself).

[lewdogg11]

Note:  My statement concerning Salve was made without relative comparison to Union, the Liberty League or any other conference other than the NEFC.  It was made solely to refute LD's assumption that Salve is the 5th best 2011 NEFC team (in what I assume is a slightly exaggerated statement to show he doesn't have faith in Salve).  Salve has now won six games in a row, five of which were league games.  They beat Curry and Plymouth State during that run.  That's my science on this matter.  You guys can debate among yourselves how one game defines the relative strength of two conferences.  I'll go get some Starbucks and watch.

All i'm saying is in the eternal optimism of hoping that the LL is going to overcome their downward spiral of late, it didn't start well.

Rome wasn't built in a day, either.  There was one day in 2009 during which we could've used the same logic to say the E8 and NEFC were equal strength conferences.  One season later, the E8 was #4 in the country.  So, it's a bit far-fetched to put all your eggs in one game's basket.  The 1-4 (technically 1-3 because of the D2 game) result isn't good.  However, MMA hung with Johns Hopkins for a half in a game that could only make MMA a better team (it was a reach in scheduling, and Toop admitted as much to us before the season -- yet, I like teams that reach).  SLU actually got a lot better in the second half with a first-time starter at QB and Marcus Washington scoring three TDs.  I'm still scratching my head about how the defense spotted Utica as many points as it did early.  We'll learn a lot more about Utica (and Union, for that matter) this weekend. 

My long story short is that rebuilding relative strength of a conference takes time.  Ask the NJAC after a real lull in the mid-2000s when "The Beast" was tamed finally.  The NJAC is back somewhat now, and it takes patience, pro-active scheduling and top-level recruiting.  I like what Landis said about his scheduling philosophy in our interview with him.  I like Union's scheduling since, even with the loss, the team is in a lot better position than it was a year ago based on the fact that there are two more games to be played before the team enters LL play.  Rochester and Hobart seem to have upped their scheduling game over the past couple years.  The teams are, in general, doing the right things to start that process.  I hope, as much as you do, that it leads to wins soon just so that we have it in concrete form.

I think what is really skewing things is that just because St. Lawrence won the LL last year, I kind of expected them to win.  But seriously, St. Lawrence has never been good.  They have some teams better than others, but they aren't a very solid program.  Hobart did it's thing.  MMA isn't very good either so that's no surprise.  It's weird thinking that Union just might not be that good anymore.  I'm not saying it's the case.  But 2-7 followed by a loss to Salve....they have some work to do.  And Union is always good.  So it's making this hard.

Hopefully next week will show something different.  Maybe Salve will give Montclair a game.  Maybe RPI can beat or battle with Alfred.  Maybe WPI will beat Worcester St. by 3 Tds.  Maybe Union beats Utica by 40.  Maybe Hobart plays again this month.

I'm thinking if Utica beats on Union, it's gonna be a long season for the Doucheman.  I am very intrigued with RPI/Alfred though.  This could answer a lot of questions in many directions for both conferences.

[Frank Rossi]

With everything RPI is facing with the new coaching staff and loss of some key players to graduation, does RPI have to beat Alfred, in your opinion, LD, for the game to be a true success for RPI and/or the LL?

[Yanks 99]

I guess I am just "shocked" that you would be "shocked" if Salve Regina didn't win the NEFC...

Also, the "nationally ranked defense" note is nice for Salve...and gives them something to promote...but it doesn't mean as much when you play all of one non-conference game (against a sub .500 Wick team) and finish 6-4 in a bad conference.

Not an exact example, but SUNY-Maritime averaged close to 33 points per game last year until they visited Alfred...that didn't turn out so well for them...

[Doid23]

Hopefully next week will show something different.  Maybe Salve will give Montclair a game.  Maybe RPI can beat or battle with Alfred.  Maybe WPI will beat Worcester St. by 3 Tds.  Maybe Union beats Utica by 40.  Maybe Hobart plays again this month.

Nicely done.

[lewdogg11]

With everything RPI is facing with the new coaching staff and loss of some key players to graduation, does RPI have to beat Alfred, in your opinion, LD, for the game to be a true success for RPI and/or the LL?

Not really, but i'd prefer a win, or a down to the wire close game.  None of this 'they played tough for 9 minutes of the first quarter' BS.  I could be completely wrong, and we'll find out on Saturday, but I have a feeling RPI is gonna give them a good game.

[Frank Rossi]

I guess I am just "shocked" that you would be "shocked" if Salve Regina didn't win the NEFC...

Also, the "nationally ranked defense" note is nice for Salve...and gives them something to promote...but it doesn't mean as much when you play all of one non-conference game (against a sub .500 Wick team) and finish 6-4 in a bad conference.

Not an exact example, but SUNY-Maritime averaged close to 33 points per game last year until they visited Alfred...that didn't turn out so well for them...

I think your reading is faulty.  I'll try it again:

"Note:  My statement concerning Salve was made without relative comparison to Union, the Liberty League or any other conference other than the NEFC."

[Jonny Utah]

Frank or dlip,

What do you think is the biggest problem with Union right now?  Without seeing them, I can only assume the Oline must be suffering.  The RB is probably as solid as any in d3, and Connely from what I have seen has the tools to make the amazing clutch throws, but isn't consistent enough to make the offense as good as it should be.  The Gallo that is a senior is the playmaker if I'm not mistaken, so I can only assume that the Oline just isn't doing their job up front.  I remember in 2005 the oline not getting the respect they deserved (with Tom A, and the WRs getting most of the credit), and maybe they aren't getting enough heat in 2011?

Are they still running the same offense?  (Multiple Pro with some shotgun, similar to Ithaca)

[dlippiel]

The writing on the wall based on week 1 results seems to be that the LL is going to be down, again, and falling possibly further. Barts win at least provides dlip with some form of hope for 2011 Liberty League. News****ingflash, let dlip tell you he is a huge RPI fan this weekend, HUGE! As a matter of fact dlip is hoping that RPI will establish itself, along with Hobart, as a very strong Eastern team this year and provide this conference with some excitement and relavence to the national picture, if only a little bit.

[Yanks 99]

I guess I am just "shocked" that you would be "shocked" if Salve Regina didn't win the NEFC...

Also, the "nationally ranked defense" note is nice for Salve...and gives them something to promote...but it doesn’t mean as much when you play all of one non-conference game (against a sub .500 Wick team) and finish 6-4 in a bad conference.

Not an exact example, but SUNY-Maritime averaged close to 33 points per game last year until they visited Alfred...that didn't turn out so well for them...

I think your reading is faulty.  I'll try it again:

"Note:  My statement concerning Salve was made without relative comparison to Union, the Liberty League or any other conference other than the NEFC."

"I'd be shocked if Salve doesn't win the NEFC."  That is your direct quote...and is really the only statement I was curious about.  Immediately afterwards you followed up with Keith's comments about SR not making the playoffs with a top 15 defense...which appeared to be used to support the reason you would be "shocked" in Salve Regina didn't win the NEFC.

My reading isn't faulty...maybe your supporting statements are, or your use/placement of your supporting statements.  This isn't a trial...just a discussion.  No reason to go all "lawyery" on this one...afterall, SR could be undefeated in a few months.  Who knows?

[rams1102]

I guess I am just "shocked" that you would be "shocked" if Salve Regina didn't win the NEFC...

Also, the "nationally ranked defense" note is nice for Salve...and gives them something to promote...but it doesn't mean as much when you play all of one non-conference game (against a sub .500 Wick team) and finish 6-4 in a bad conference.

Not an exact example, but SUNY-Maritime averaged close to 33 points per game last year until they visited Alfred...that didn't turn out so well for them...

I think your reading is faulty.  I'll try it again:

"Note:  My statement concerning Salve was made without relative comparison to Union, the Liberty League or any other conference other than the NEFC."

"I'd be shocked if Salve doesn't win the NEFC."  That is your direct quote...and is really the only statement I was curious about.  Immediately afterwards you followed up with Keith's comments about SR not making the playoffs with a top 15 defense...which appeared to be used to support the reason you would be "shocked" in Salve Regina didn't win the NEFC.

My reading isn't faulty...maybe your supporting statements are, or your use/placement of your supporting statements.  This isn't a trial...just a discussion.  No reason to go all "lawyery" on this one...afterall, SR could be undefeated in a few months.  Who knows?

SR could be undefeated in a few months.  Who knows? I sure hope not after Saturday.