FB: Liberty League

[wesleydad]

Once IC stops shooting themselves in the foot in the red zone , this offense will really be top notch. It is also clear that they worked with the Oline and the running game with Brown during the BYE week....teams can always choose to double Gladney, but if the other pieces are working IC will have something really special by the end of the year.

It is an indisputable fact that the Bomber's offense has issues in the red zone, and I think most of that came when the offense was still one-dimensional; Nabi to Gladney, and occasionally Vito or Zazarra, rinse & repeat. Now that they have some semblance of a running game (as seen in the second half of this game), and Nabi is spreading the ball around more (Jack Yule, Trevor Bauer, and Nick Cervone all had some of their first receptions this game), they will have a wider menu in the red zone.

Here are the highlights from yesterday, and one of the most exciting games I have ever been to:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=11hsQAltMzI

Nicely done.  Crisp production.

[Bombers798891]

I feel bad for Sweeney. He (and Shed) will break all the records at Hobart, but only one playoff game in three seasons? Really disappointing.

oh well, try to win out and keep your fingers crossed for help

So I have thoughts on both these comments.

To the Sweeney/Shed thing: It's something I noticed in the E8, where a lot of the teams' best QBs (Bailey/Boltus/Felicetti) really struggled to make an impact in the NCAAs. But I think that's partly because of the 2nd thing.

The danger in having a six team league is that, you lose one conference game and your season is already on thin ice. There's just not enough games to make up that ground. So, the game that could go either way (Hobart/IC) doesn't go yours, and you're in a pretty deep hole.

[Upstate]

I feel bad for Sweeney. He (and Shed) will break all the records at Hobart, but only one playoff game in three seasons? Really disappointing.

oh well, try to win out and keep your fingers crossed for help

So I have thoughts on both these comments.

To the Sweeney/Shed thing: It's something I noticed in the E8, where a lot of the teams' best QBs (Bailey/Boltus/Felicetti) really struggled to make an impact in the NCAAs. But I think that's partly because of the 2nd thing.

The danger in having a six team league is that, you lose one conference game and your season is already on thin ice. There's just not enough games to make up that ground. So, the game that could go either way (Hobart/IC) doesn't go yours, and you're in a pretty deep hole.

Bailey's SR year:

Throwing: 65%, 3197 yds, 35 TDs/8 INTS
Rushing: 382 yds, 5 TDs

They averaged 43 points a game and nearly 490 yards a game on offense.

Defensively:

Picked off 23 passes, recovered 9 fumbles
Allowed just 15 passing TDs.
Allowed an average of 3.5 yards per carry.

It's so quirky that this team goes 8-2 and missed the playoffs but the next year Fisher goes 8-2 with a hodge podge offense that has a RB playing QB and goes on the road in the NCAAs and beats then top 15 ranked Hopkins and Del Val.

That 2010 team was light years better than the 2011 team. Bailey would have done a lot of damage if he got into the playoffs, he had a ton of weapons and teams couldn't really key on one player. It just didn't go their way unfortunately.

[Bombers798891]

Once IC stops shooting themselves in the foot in the red zone , this offense will really be top notch. It is also clear that they worked with the Oline and the running game with Brown during the BYE week....teams can always choose to double Gladney, but if the other pieces are working IC will have something really special by the end of the year.

It is an indisputable fact that the Bomber's offense has issues in the red zone, and I think most of that came when the offense was still one-dimensional; Nabi to Gladney, and occasionally Vito or Zazarra, rinse & repeat. Now that they have some semblance of a running game (as seen in the second half of this game), and Nabi is spreading the ball around more (Jack Yule, Trevor Bauer, and Nick Cervone all had some of their first receptions this game), they will have a wider menu in the red zone.

Here are the highlights from yesterday, and one of the most exciting games I have ever been to:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=11hsQAltMzI

First, as always, great video.

I agree that the RZ struggles will improve. Mainly because *bad* offenses can't go 2-for-15 on TDs in the RZ. An offense that has put up 449 yards last week and and 497 this week, there's no way they won't get drastically better.

But your analysis is correct. As we saw with Hobart, eventually, you have to double team Gladney. But the Bombers aren't going to force it to him. The best part of the TD drive was that after Gladney picked up an easy catch, they targeted Zazzara, Vito, Zazzara, and Bauer.

I dare say Ithaca probably has the inside track to the LL (simply by banking two wins already). Things are looking pretty rosy compared to two weeks ago.

[Oline89]

As a first year attendant to the Liberty League/Empire 8 games, I am slowly visiting the various schools.  We took our first trip to Butterfield Stadium this weekend.  Fabulous vistas, delicious hot dogs, and most importantly, what a huge home field advantage that natural grass field provides to the Bombers.  The speed of play is different on the grass, route running for receivers has to be changed, and I am sure that it takes some time for the players to get used to the huge crown in the middle of the field.  No excuses for the results on the field this past Saturday!  Just nice to see something other than green plastic grass with little rubber pellets for dirt.

[Bartman]

As a first year attendant to the Liberty League/Empire 8 games, I am slowly visiting the various schools.  We took our first trip to Butterfield Stadium this weekend.  Fabulous vistas, delicious hot dogs, and most importantly, what a huge home field advantage that natural grass field provides to the Bombers.  The speed of play is different on the grass, route running for receivers has to be changed, and I am sure that it takes some time for the players to get used to the huge crown in the middle of the field.  No excuses for the results on the field this past Saturday!  Just nice to see something other than green plastic grass with little rubber pellets for dirt.

I loved the old days at the Boz when we had real mud. Unfortunately , I missed the venue this week, I guess I will have to wait another 2 years for a Hobart win at Butterfield. Just hoping that Hobart can win out and let RPI and Union beat the Bombers ...but when you don't have your destiny in your own hands it feels kind of hollow. So it probably comes down to RPI and Ithaca this year with the Statesmen playing in the "runner up bowl" as a goal ,which is not a given either this year with RPI, SLU and Union games to play.  Not to look ahead too much, but the runner up in the E8 will probably be the loser of the Brockport-Alfred game which probably will be more exciting than losing to Mount Union in Ohio or Mary Hardin Baylor in Texas. I am trying to be positive, but it is tough and Cragg will have his motivational hands full this week against a tough RPI team that smells the title now. So what happens with a three way tie if Hobart, Ithaca and RPI tie, which now that I think of it is a real possibility

[Bartman]

I need to keep my interest with a discussion in the instance there is a three way tie with each having a 1-1 record with the other 2 teams :

Format: The Liberty League champion will be the team with the best winning percentage in League competition. If the teams have the same records, the tiebreaker will be head-to-head competition.

So does any one know if there is a 3 way tie with a 1-1 record amongst the 3 teams, what the tie breaker is? I am thinking it is the team with the highest aggregate point differential in the games with the teams that are tied.....??

[ITH radio]

We haven't seen the 3-way tie scenario since around 2008, but Frank researched it and I do think the point differential factors in about 3-4 steps down the waterfall.

[Bartman]

We haven't seen the 3-way tie scenario since around 2008, but Frank researched it and I do think the point differential factors in about 3-4 steps down the waterfall.

I hope it is since we had such a close game with Ithaca.....I hope it is not best Hot Dogs, as I heard the ones at Butterfield were really good

[Bombers798891]

I need to keep my interest with a discussion in the instance there is a three way tie with each having a 1-1 record with the other 2 teams :

Format: The Liberty League champion will be the team with the best winning percentage in League competition. If the teams have the same records, the tiebreaker will be head-to-head competition.

So does any one know if there is a 3 way tie with a 1-1 record amongst the 3 teams, what the tie breaker is? I am thinking it is the team with the highest aggregate point differential in the games with the teams that are tied.....??

It never ceases to amaze me that conferences don't post three-way tie criteria, as if that's not the most common tiebreak question (who doesn't use H2H in a two-way?)

I'd guess record against common OOC opponents would be a criteria. I've seen places use a points allowed criteria before differential because it doesn't encourage running up the score (and in fact prioritizes running out the clock)

[Bombers798891]

As a first year attendant to the Liberty League/Empire 8 games, I am slowly visiting the various schools.  We took our first trip to Butterfield Stadium this weekend.  Fabulous vistas, delicious hot dogs, and most importantly, what a huge home field advantage that natural grass field provides to the Bombers.  The speed of play is different on the grass, route running for receivers has to be changed, and I am sure that it takes some time for the players to get used to the huge crown in the middle of the field.  No excuses for the results on the field this past Saturday!  Just nice to see something other than green plastic grass with little rubber pellets for dirt.

Mrs. Bombers loves the hot dogs at Butterfield. There's only two home games left to go to*, so time is running out. Everyone should see the view from the top of Butterfield once.

*We don't do Cortaca

[Jonny Utah]

As a first year attendant to the Liberty League/Empire 8 games, I am slowly visiting the various schools.  We took our first trip to Butterfield Stadium this weekend.  Fabulous vistas, delicious hot dogs, and most importantly, what a huge home field advantage that natural grass field provides to the Bombers.  The speed of play is different on the grass, route running for receivers has to be changed, and I am sure that it takes some time for the players to get used to the huge crown in the middle of the field.  No excuses for the results on the field this past Saturday!  Just nice to see something other than green plastic grass with little rubber pellets for dirt.

I have never figured out how the grass at Butterfield has effected the play.  The grass is a thick grass and even though the field appears to have the correct slope for proper drainage, it always seemed to me that the thick grass caused more water to stay close to the surface, effecting the footing if the soil was wet. 

Anyway, sometimes it seems that the oline has the advantage, or the WRs, but other times it seems like the dline or dbacks have the advantage because they aren't making the moves to get open.  Yesterday it seemed that the ball carriers (Hobart's Harvey and Ithaca's Brown) had the advantage as the smaller defensive players had trouble getting proper foot position to tackle.

Also, I thought Harvey was a great tough back.  Hobart has a solid RB for the next few years.

[Bartman]

I need to keep my interest with a discussion in the instance there is a three way tie with each having a 1-1 record with the other 2 teams :

Format: The Liberty League champion will be the team with the best winning percentage in League competition. If the teams have the same records, the tiebreaker will be head-to-head competition.

So does any one know if there is a 3 way tie with a 1-1 record amongst the 3 teams, what the tie breaker is? I am thinking it is the team with the highest aggregate point differential in the games with the teams that are tied.....??

It never ceases to amaze me that conferences don't post three-way tie criteria, as if that's not the most common tiebreak question (who doesn't use H2H in a two-way?)

I'd guess record against common OOC opponents would be a criteria. I've seen places use a points allowed criteria before differential because it doesn't encourage running up the score (and in fact prioritizes running out the clock)

Evidently it is the record against all teams(not sure if that includes  OOC) with records over .500 as the third tie breaker. As one team is eliminated, then it reverts back to head to head. So IF Hobart wins out, Ithaca loses to RPI and they all win the rest of their LL games, it would come down to OOC record against over .500 teams until one team is eliminated and then it would revert back to head to head(this assumes OOC's are included in all teams). Here , Ithaca is probably at a disadvantage as they lost to Alfred and Brockport already and could be the team eliminated at this step. Hobart would win the H2H with RPI. If OOC teams are not included in this, then it is a coin flip and I have no idea how you do that with 3 teams??
Please indulge me in order to keep my interest up for the balance of the season...it is all the Bombers fault

[AUPepBand]

As a first year attendant to the Liberty League/Empire 8 games, I am slowly visiting the various schools.  We took our first trip to Butterfield Stadium this weekend.  Fabulous vistas, delicious hot dogs, and most importantly, what a huge home field advantage that natural grass field provides to the Bombers.  The speed of play is different on the grass, route running for receivers has to be changed, and I am sure that it takes some time for the players to get used to the huge crown in the middle of the field.  No excuses for the results on the field this past Saturday!  Just nice to see something other than green plastic grass with little rubber pellets for dirt.

I have never figured out how the grass at Butterfield has effected the play.  The grass is a thick grass and even though the field appears to have the correct slope for proper drainage, it always seemed to me that the thick grass caused more water to stay close to the surface, effecting the footing if the soil was wet. 

Anyway, sometimes it seems that the oline has the advantage, or the WRs, but other times it seems like the dline or dbacks have the advantage because they aren't making the moves to get open.  Yesterday it seemed that the ball carriers (Hobart's Harvey and Ithaca's Brown) had the advantage as the smaller defensive players had trouble getting proper foot position to tackle.

Also, I thought Harvey was a great tough back.  Hobart has a solid RB for the next few years.

Two years ago at Butterfield, it seemed the Bomber O-Line moved the AU D-Line about five yards on each running play, making it look like the Saxons were on roller skates. Pep inquired whether the AU team wore the same turf shoes that the Saxons wear at home. This year, Pep noticed a Saxon after the game commenting on wearing his "old-school" shoes.

Pep asserted that in his football playing days in the side yard in his sneakers, everything was fine until cousin Mark showed up wearing his soccer spikes. It was a clear speed advantage and making cuts and overall mobility. Well, at least Pep attributed his team's loss to the opponent's damn soccer spikes!

[Bombers798891]

Evidently it is the record against all teams(not sure if that includes  OOC) with records over .500 as the third tie breaker. As one team is eliminated, then it reverts back to head to head. So IF Hobart wins out, Ithaca loses to RPI and they all win the rest of their LL games, it would come down to OOC record against over .500 teams until one team is eliminated and then it would revert back to head to head(this assumes OOC's are included in all teams). Here , Ithaca is probably at a disadvantage as they lost to Alfred and Brockport already and could be the team eliminated at this step. Hobart would win the H2H with RPI. If OOC teams are not included in this, then it is a coin flip and I have no idea how you do that with 3 teams??
Please indulge me in order to keep my interest up for the balance of the season...it is all the Bombers fault

Note: I have to make a lot of assumptions here for the sake of playing it out. No hurt feelings.

Assuming RPI/Bart/IC win out in LL, except for RPI over IC. I'll also assume the following:

Rochester loses to Union and St. Lawrence, so they have seven losses and are removed.
St. Lawrence loses to Brockport, so they have six and are out.
Union gets to 5 with the win over Rochester

This leaves us:

Hobart
Brockport: 5-0 Loss
Fisher: 0-4 Win
Shenandoah: 3-1 Win
Endicott: 1-4 Win
Hartwick: 2-3 not played
Union: Win

You're looking at 2-1, as I doubt Endicott and Fisher get to .500, and the Wick doesn't either (Not with Bart, Alfred, and Brockport on the docket)

RPI
WP: 0-4 Win
WPI: 3-2 Win
WNE: 3-2 Win
Buff State: 3-1 loss
Alfred: 5-0 Not played
Union: Win

I'm guessing Buff State finds themselves two wins (one will come against Fisher) and that they'll lose to Alfred. So, if WPI/WNE hold on, it's 3-2

Ithaca
Alfred 4-0 Loss
Brockport 5-0 loss
Utica 2-3 not played
Cortland 2-2 not played
Fisher: 0-4
Union: win

So you're 1-2, and the question is, can Utica and Cortland both get to .500 while losing to Ithaca, AND one of them losing to the other? This is going to be a tall order if Utica loses to Cortland, but it's possible.

So it looks like Hobart gets it, since the criteria is record, and 2-1 is better than 3-2.