FB: Liberty League

[unionpalooza]

UNION COLLEGE GARNET CHARGERS!!!      

Ice Bear says this is absolutely un-****ing-real. Ice is beyond disgusted by this ****ing horrible name change. Ice says garnet chargers (from this day on Ice refuses to capitalize the G and C) rings like the name of a ****ing intramural youth soccer team...to Ice, and he'll say it. This is lower than the ****ing 0-10 season.

Ice is pretending he is a PA announcer here: Good evening folk and tonight we have the Cornell Big Red vs. the Union College garnet chargers! ****ing embarrassing

Ice Bear pleads to Pat with all his mighty power and influence...Please ****ing do something about this!

Ice, my only hope is that what happens at RPI happens at Union.  They changed the name to Red Hawks in 1995 and everyone hated and ignored it and eventually the next administration acquiesced and gave it up.  I think that's our best hope here - though RPI allowed its teams to choose to use the old name, and several did, including hockey and football; I can't imagine Union is doing the same.

This is part of a much larger effort to "rebrand" the college by the current administration, who seem to believe that aggressive marketing can solve the basic problem that they don't understand how to sell (or better just don't really appreciate) what historically has made Union great (a faculty more interested in teacher/student development rather than prestige in academia, real faculty mentorship, meaningful undergraduate research opps, etc.)

[tony/troy]

UNION COLLEGE GARNET CHARGERS!!!      

Ice Bear says this is absolutely un-****ing-real. Ice is beyond disgusted by this ****ing horrible name change. Ice says garnet chargers (from this day on Ice refuses to capitalize the G and C) rings like the name of a ****ing intramural youth soccer team...to Ice, and he'll say it. This is lower than the ****ing 0-10 season.

Ice is pretending he is a PA announcer here: Good evening folk and tonight we have the Cornell Big Red vs. the Union College garnet chargers! ****ing embarrassing

Ice Bear pleads to Pat with all his mighty power and influence...Please ****ing do something about this!

Same post as posted on the hockey board. No need to change a thing.

Originally posted by rpi82 View Post

Shhhhhh!!!! We want to enjoy this a little bit longer. Besides, they can't fix it until they work through their stock of Garnet Charger gear.

If memory, from back when our place finally got it through their thick skulls that the chicken thing was a non starter, serves correctly (very late 90's???), it won't take that long. When that glorious enlightening finally did happen, all the apparel from that era could be found in reject bins at the bookstore marked at about $3 or less. At those prices it wasn't bad stuff at all. Assuming one of the people who wore the chicken outfit hasn't got the damned thing thing hanging in their closet, it may have brought $6 or $7.

Garnet Chargers real bad!!! Even Union Teamsters would have been better. The mascot could have been a likeness of Jimmy Hoffa and the guy (or gal) inside the thing could have done their dancing in the end zone instead of under it.

P.S. Younger people may be excused if they don't get any of this.

[Jonny Utah]

Union College Garnet Chargers.....

Ha.  Serious question:  Was the change from Dutchmen and Dutchwomen because of the gender issues of "men" or "women".  Or was it a Colonial Dutch thing?   

They SHOULD have changed to the Shockers.  That would have been so awesome for all sorts of reasons.

[unionpalooza]

Union College Garnet Chargers.....

Ha.  Serious question:  Was the change from Dutchmen and Dutchwomen because of the gender issues of "men" or "women".  Or was it a Colonial Dutch thing?   

They SHOULD have changed to the Shockers.  That would have been so awesome for all sorts of reasons.

This was actually the worst part. They never gave a clear reason, just some hot air mumbo-jumbo about the new nickname better reflecting the college' history and values than the old one.  I suspect it was the colonial nature of the nickname, but the administration didn't have the balls to say that out loud.

[Caz Bombers]

Union College Garnet Chargers.....

Ha.  Serious question:  Was the change from Dutchmen and Dutchwomen because of the gender issues of "men" or "women".  Or was it a Colonial Dutch thing?   

They SHOULD have changed to the Shockers.  That would have been so awesome for all sorts of reasons.

This was actually the worst part. They never gave a clear reason, just some hot air mumbo-jumbo about the new nickname better reflecting the college' history and values than the old one.  I suspect it was the colonial nature of the nickname, but the administration didn't have the balls to say that out loud.

You'd probably know better than me, but I heard from someone at Union that they basically just surveyed students and asked "do you like our current nicknames?" and that the answer was overwhelmingly no. However I don't believe they asked respondents to elaborate on their answers.

[stlawus]

How is it that basically every team and school manages to screw up a name change?

[unionpalooza]

How is it that basically every team and school manages to screw up a name change?

I think part of it is just that name changes are hard; after 120 years of college athletics, all the good nicknames are already taken and just the dregs are left.

And the rest is just that college leaders have zero business/marketing acumen and thus can talk themselves into thinking anything is a good idea. Just not their skill set.  And there is a whole consulting ecosystem that feeds on their naïveté. 

[Bartman]

UNION COLLEGE GARNET CHARGERS!!!      

Ice Bear says this is absolutely un-****ing-real. Ice is beyond disgusted by this ****ing horrible name change. Ice says garnet chargers (from this day on Ice refuses to capitalize the G and C) rings like the name of a ****ing intramural youth soccer team...to Ice, and he'll say it. This is lower than the ****ing 0-10 season.

Ice is pretending he is a PA announcer here: Good evening folk and tonight we have the Cornell Big Red vs. the Union College garnet chargers! ****ing embarrassing

Ice Bear pleads to Pat with all his mighty power and influence...Please ****ing do something about this!

IB always keeps it honest and clear. After careful consideration, I agree it is a "****ing horrible name change". My condolences to the Union faithful that have been bitten by the contemporization of the community and its symbols and mascot names are a critical part of the transformation. A new Alma Mater needs to be written in order to cement this change. Now , the Mascot should be Sparky, the Garnet Charger . Onward Sparky, onward Sparky, on to victory, beat the RPI Slide-rulers using our lightning speed....rah,rah,rah....(sung to the tune of On Wisconsin)....just a first draft....

[unionpalooza]

Question for the RPI folks:  Do any of you have any memory of exactly what went down when RPI tried to change the nickname to Red Hawks, and what alumni/athletes did to successfully kill it after a few years?

[Caz Bombers]

Question for the RPI folks:  Do any of you have any memory of exactly what went down when RPI tried to change the nickname to Red Hawks, and what alumni/athletes did to successfully kill it after a few years?

https://rpiathletics.com/sports/2010/6/29/GEN_0629100832.aspx?id=2794

some teams started using Red Hawks as early as 1995. Others stayed with Engineers. When it became clear that a single unifying athletics brand was necessary, all teams became Engineers in 2009. So it was way more than a few years.

[IC798891]

I'm just going to leave this here and take the karma dings, but I think the reason most people on the boards here think schools mess up name changes is that most of us — and I'll include myself in this group — are really invested in athletics. And people who like athletics tend to know and spend time talking with people who feel the same. And because nicknames are so synonymous with athletics, changes to it feel more personal to those kinds of people.

I say this from time to time, but I truly believe one of the biggest "issues" with athletics (pro, college, and high school) is that, because of what I reference above, people in it drastically overestimate how many people outside of it truly care about it — and by extension in this case, truly care about the nickname that is pretty much tied to athletics.

So in many ways, I actually think the problem is that the question was rigged. I suspect most people don't "like" the school's nickname because honestly, why would they have any strong feelings one way or the other? If I had to guess, I think we'd still have the Union Dutchmen and Dutchwomen if the question had been "Do you have any problems with the school's nickname?"

It's like that exchange from Casablanca

"You despise me, don't you?"
"I suppose I would, if I gave you any thought at all"

I wasn't on any teams in college. But I had a major and a minor in two different schools, and then I got a masters' degree from a third school. I  was also a part of staffs at the radio station and newspaper. And through all those different cohorts, we never referred to ourselves, collectively, as "Bombers"

I think this is really an area of concern for athletes and big time sports people. But that's a much smaller portion on any D3 campus than we may want to admit

[unionpalooza]

I'm just going to leave this here and take the karma dings, but I think the reason most people on the boards here think schools mess up name changes is that most of us — and I'll include myself in this group — are really invested in athletics. And people who like athletics tend to know and spend time talking with people who feel the same. And because nicknames are so synonymous with athletics, changes to it feel more personal to those kinds of people.

I say this from time to time, but I truly believe one of the biggest "issues" with athletics (pro, college, and high school) is that, because of what I reference above, people in it drastically overestimate how many people outside of it truly care about it — and by extension in this case, truly care about the nickname that is pretty much tied to athletics.

So in many ways, I actually think the problem is that the question was rigged. I suspect most people don't "like" the school's nickname because honestly, why would they have any strong feelings one way or the other? If I had to guess, I think we'd still have the Union Dutchmen and Dutchwomen if the question had been "Do you have any problems with the school's nickname?"

It's like that exchange from Casablanca

"You despise me, don't you?"
"I suppose I would, if I gave you any thought at all"

I wasn't on any teams in college. But I had a major and a minor in two different schools, and then I got a masters' degree from a third school. I  was also a part of staffs at the radio station and newspaper. And through all those different cohorts, we never referred to ourselves, collectively, as "Bombers"

I think this is really an area of concern for athletes and big time sports people. But that's a much smaller portion on any D3 campus than we may want to admit

I would definitely agree with all that.  Indeed, that's why I think that generally - outside of situations where you've got nicknames that are derogatory - college's are better off being highly deferential to current athletes and supporters of the programs when it comes to nicknames; they're the only one's who actually care either way.  The Union situation is weird because anyone who might like the change doesn't actually care about it at all, and those who dislike it, care a lot.

[UfanBill]

No karma dings from me IC. I agree with you and palooza. So do two of the biggest sports stars in Union College history, basketball great Jim Tedisco, now a NYS Senator, and football great Tom Arcidiacano BOTH have come out publicly against the nickname change as have hundreds of other former Dutchmen and Dutchwomen. 

[Ice Bear]

I'm just going to leave this here and take the karma dings, but I think the reason most people on the boards here think schools mess up name changes is that most of us — and I'll include myself in this group — are really invested in athletics. And people who like athletics tend to know and spend time talking with people who feel the same. And because nicknames are so synonymous with athletics, changes to it feel more personal to those kinds of people.

I say this from time to time, but I truly believe one of the biggest "issues" with athletics (pro, college, and high school) is that, because of what I reference above, people in it drastically overestimate how many people outside of it truly care about it — and by extension in this case, truly care about the nickname that is pretty much tied to athletics.

So in many ways, I actually think the problem is that the question was rigged. I suspect most people don't "like" the school's nickname because honestly, why would they have any strong feelings one way or the other? If I had to guess, I think we'd still have the Union Dutchmen and Dutchwomen if the question had been "Do you have any problems with the school's nickname?"

It's like that exchange from Casablanca

"You despise me, don't you?"
"I suppose I would, if I gave you any thought at all"

I wasn't on any teams in college. But I had a major and a minor in two different schools, and then I got a masters' degree from a third school. I  was also a part of staffs at the radio station and newspaper. And through all those different cohorts, we never referred to ourselves, collectively, as "Bombers"

I think this is really an area of concern for athletes and big time sports people. But that's a much smaller portion on any D3 campus than we may want to admit

Ice Vear says he thinks this is a great perspective IC.

[mikefln]

I'm just going to leave this here and take the karma dings, but I think the reason most people on the boards here think schools mess up name changes is that most of us — and I'll include myself in this group — are really invested in athletics. And people who like athletics tend to know and spend time talking with people who feel the same. And because nicknames are so synonymous with athletics, changes to it feel more personal to those kinds of people.

I say this from time to time, but I truly believe one of the biggest "issues" with athletics (pro, college, and high school) is that, because of what I reference above, people in it drastically overestimate how many people outside of it truly care about it — and by extension in this case, truly care about the nickname that is pretty much tied to athletics.

So in many ways, I actually think the problem is that the question was rigged. I suspect most people don't "like" the school's nickname because honestly, why would they have any strong feelings one way or the other? If I had to guess, I think we'd still have the Union Dutchmen and Dutchwomen if the question had been "Do you have any problems with the school's nickname?"

It's like that exchange from Casablanca

"You despise me, don't you?"
"I suppose I would, if I gave you any thought at all"

I wasn't on any teams in college. But I had a major and a minor in two different schools, and then I got a masters' degree from a third school. I  was also a part of staffs at the radio station and newspaper. And through all those different cohorts, we never referred to ourselves, collectively, as "Bombers"

I think this is really an area of concern for athletes and big time sports people. But that's a much smaller portion on any D3 campus than we may want to admit

I agree with a lot of what you say.  While I am not familiar with this particular school situation,  I know in general (at least according to some article I read over a decade ago,so no clue if it is still accurate), former athletes generally are among the biggest donors by percentage of alumni giving and total dolars given to most schools. 

Now how should a school navigate that if it,  is another factor to consider.