FB: Liberty League

[UfanBill]

Earlier today I was formulating a post about Union's prospects for next season. Who's coming back etc. especially 5th years and what holes needed to be filled. The hole just became a chasm.

[Jonny Utah]

I'm going to be honest here and say that I am really deflated by this news. I think Union is going to have a tough time bouncing back from this. I hope I'm wrong.

It was a tough pill to swallow when Coach Behrman left but getting a guy with the character, passion, and coaching ability of Poppe was a gift. One I didn't see coming. This is admittedly an even tough pill to swallow for me. Let's see what happens next.

With that said, I am very happy for Coach Poppe and think this is a great move for his career. I thought the same with Bergman's move back to his home state and alma mater. I wish Coach Poppe and his family all the best and believe wholeheartedly Columbia has found its guy for a while. I'll be rooting for them.

This is a tough one to take.

Yeah, I'm afraid I don't share Ice Bear's well wishes.  Behrman's departure was hard but understandable - moving back to his alma mater, where is family is, and closer to where he son was going to college.  His decision to move on wasn't to chase a flashier job, but instead consistent with the values and ethos he preached.

For Poppe, I get that this is a dream opportunity, but in my book you can't run around yelling about family and commitment and loyalty all the time and then abandon that the moment something better comes along.  I know this is old fashioned, and that college football coaching is mostly now a game of professional chutes and ladders and not really about building communities and shaping young men, but sentimental beliefs die hard.  At least the Union guys have had an early life lesson that most of the time, when you run into someone shouting with passion about family and commitment and dedication to one another, that person is just putting on a performance to get ahead.  Real deals are much rarer.

I suspect the new gig will be a tough one for Poppe.  Clearly has energy and can recruit (or at least, I think so - he won with Behrman's guys), but he was clearly super green as a technical coach, making a bunch of rookie mistakes over the year in-game, and making some mistakes on a program level too (e.g., hiring an OC who had never called a play, which clearly was Union's biggest weakness this year). WIth 3 or 4 more years of real experience, he'd be much better prepared for an Ivy HC job, which is infinitely harder and more complicated than the
Union gig. 

Mostly, though, just feel bad for the kids.  Screws up recruiting, probably means most of the seniors won't come back for another year, and much more of a hard re-start probably required filling this job for a second year in a row.

I was just thinking about this and agree.  Odds are this Columbia job would have been open in 5 years anyway (still might be) and that is enough time for him to build something and potentially expand on what Berhman did there in his tenure.  I'm also kinda suprised he got the job.  I figured an OC/DC from another FCS program would have been more qualified on paper anyway. 

Either way this is a kick in the balls for the Union football family. 

[Bartman]

Sorry for the Union fans that Poppe ended up being a carpetbagger and has moved on.Obviously it is a good move for him, and might have been predicted based on his Columbia and Ivy experience. I'm not sure Poppe did anything but use Behrman's recruits and let them play. He also got Ice Bear all  excited about his infectious enthusiasm and passion.Columbia is where college coaches go to die, even Poppe won't change that(they last won a Championship 62 years ago). I'd love to see if there is a Union grad out there that has the experience to take over the program that will really live the family talk.Union football tradition needs a great coach that will bleed Garnet red.

[Oline89]

Sorry for the Union fans that Poppe ended up being a carpetbagger and has moved on.Obviously it is a good move for him, and might have been predicted based on his Columbia and Ivy experience. I'm not sure Poppe did anything but use Behrman's recruits and let them play. He also got Ice Bear all  excited about his infectious enthusiasm and passion.Columbia is where college coaches go to die, even Poppe won't change that(they last won a Championship 62 years ago). I'd love to see if there is a Union grad out there that has the experience to take over the program that will really live the family talk.Union football tradition needs a great coach that will bleed Garnet red.

Great point about Columbia, B-man. Fantastic school, good kids, deep pockets.  However, terrible location, miserable history, mediocre fanbase, near zero chance of winning record (in the league)

[IC798891]

Poppe thoughts — and let me say I certainly feel for Union fans.

Given Poppe's extensive history in the Ivies, it seems pretty clear that any head coaching position in the league was going to be a siren's call for him. It unfortunately happened much sooner than anyone thought it would.

As for the stuff he preached/said/did not matching up with this action. Look, I spent a long time interviewing coaches about the profession (I worked as a writer for a trade magazine about coaching) and here's the reality: Every coach in the world has the stuff about family, commitment, dedication just implanted in their head. One of the most difficult things about that job was trying to get coaches to open up, because every one of them who repeated the phrase "No one cares how much you know until they know how much you care" said it like it was some sort of unique philosophy they were sharing with me, and not something I'd heard dozens of times before.

I think there are some coaches who do genuinely believe it, and we can all name the ones we know. But they almost all know that they're supposed to act that way and talk like that.

I don't think it makes Poppe "fake". I think we live in a world where, even in D3, every interview has the chance to go viral, for good or bad reasons. And coaches simply learn really quickly that there's just a way you need to act. It's just something that goes along with the profession

[Machiavelli]

To be honest, this is just society now. It's a typical Millennial/Gen Z move, where money and labels take the place of loyalty and legacy. Pretty much anyone under 40 I interview has worked for 10 or more companies in their career. I'm not saying it's wrong, per se, because it's definitely a more risky but lucrative practice, but you don't carry that same sense of confidence and pride when you jump all over the place. Maybe you appear to be confident and cocky and all that, but it's smoke and mirrors.

Taking the Columbia job is like taking the Detroit Lions job. It's gonna be a tough one to crack and be successful. Maybe he will be, but it's more likely he's just another coach on the rotisserie, and in 3-5 years they will try again with a new face.

[ICAlum16]

I think this day in age everyone should just assume that their coach is going to jump at the next best opportunity especially when you are a young up and coming coach on the D3 level. I think the days of guys like Coach Welch and Vosburgh from SJF and Audino are over. It is unfortunate that we should all get accustom to seeing new faces but it is the state of college football in 2023.

I am now expecting and waiting for the day Coach Terp makes the jump for a DC or HC job in a higher division sometime in the next few years and that is OK. I think if anything, it is a testament to the quality of all the programs in the LL that higher level schools feel comfortable taking a "chance" on a D3 coach.

I would love to see one of my former coaches and current Willams DC, Mark McDonough, get a chance. He is an awesome coach that was a finalist for the IC job back when Swanstrom was hired and is an incredible defensive coach, motivator and recruiter. He is familiar with the area, the schools and the conference and I think is someone that would be in it for the long haul.

I know I have been absent from the boards from the past few weeks so im late but seeing Cortland with a chance at going to the natty just does not sit right with me. They obviously have a great team, especially on offense, and just got a great draw of games but as a life long IC fan, seeing them have their best season in school history makes me unwell.

Lastly, how do you all follow the LL recruiting circus? I usually just see RTs on Twitter so curious if there is a better source of news. Anyway, hope you all are having a good holiday season!

[unionpalooza]

I agree with all of the wise takes above.  This is the new way of the world, though I'm still hoping that in the next search, Union can find someone more interested in building a deep program than in job hopping to the next shiny thing.

Having had a few days to reflect, I'm mostly just amazed Poppe got the job.  A year ago, he was an Ivy special teams and secondary coach; that's quite a leap, and though Union had a great year this year, there's not much a track record there - never brought in his own players, and inherited a great defensive coaching staff that was the backbone of Union's success this year.  What you can actually judge was a mixed bag - lots of energy and excitement, good recruiting prospects, but some very green in-game coaching and game planning, a big whiff on bringing in a rookie OC that struggled mightily in gamelan/playcalling against better teams.  As others have mentioned, Columbia is a very tough place to win, so maybe they didn't feel like they better options. Or maybe, given the struggles, they're willing to take a bog gamble and hope it pays off.  But there are a least two coaches in LL better qualified for the Columbia gig (Isernia and Toerper), so you have to think there are lots of options out there.  But again, maybe others would be more circumspect about jumping into as a tough a situation as Columbia is.

[IC798891]

I wonder if McDonough is even looking for another job.

He's been the DC at Williams since 2017. In 2016, another former Bomber. LB, Tom Blumenauer came to the Williams staff as an offensive line coach. Blumenauer was elevated to the OC position in 2021, spent a year there, and then took on the HC job at Franklin and Marshall.  He'd had, all told, I think three total years as an OC before getting the job.

My point isn't that McDonough should have taken the F&M job. It's more that there wouldn't seem to be anything holding him back from getting another D3 HC job. Certainly, guys with less experience have gotten jobs as HC

But he's working for a coach he used to play for, just like he was at IC. There's probably something very appealing about that.

[Bartman]

Marist College Football HC just retired. This is a perfect step into D1, although FCS non-scholarship , that a few of the LL coaches might have an interest in. Beautiful campus overlooking the Hudson. and a good recruiter could take Marist to the  next level and perhaps build a program that would convert to a scholarship program with a potential change in leagues. The new President should upgrade football/investment to compete for students and alumni $$. If I were a LL coach it would be a very attractive coaching move.

[Ice Bear]

I agree with all of the wise takes above.  This is the new way of the world, though I'm still hoping that in the next search, Union can find someone more interested in building a deep program than in job hopping to the next shiny thing.

Having had a few days to reflect, I'm mostly just amazed Poppe got the job.  A year ago, he was an Ivy special teams and secondary coach; that's quite a leap, and though Union had a great year this year, there's not much a track record there - never brought in his own players, and inherited a great defensive coaching staff that was the backbone of Union's success this year.  What you can actually judge was a mixed bag - lots of energy and excitement, good recruiting prospects, but some very green in-game coaching and game planning, a big whiff on bringing in a rookie OC that struggled mightily in gamelan/playcalling against better teams.  As others have mentioned, Columbia is a very tough place to win, so maybe they didn't feel like they better options. Or maybe, given the struggles, they're willing to take a bog gamble and hope it pays off.  But there are a least two coaches in LL better qualified for the Columbia gig (Isernia and Toerper), so you have to think there are lots of options out there.  But again, maybe others would be more circumspect about jumping into as a tough a situation as Columbia is.

This is an excellent post palooza. I agree with everything here especially that I too deeply hope that the next Coach Union brings in will be in for the long haul. I believe if it fits within one's wants/dreams, coaching football at Union College can be a wonderful job to have and keep for a long time.

[Jonny Utah]

All good points about the coaching profession here.  I think it comes down to the individual goals of each coach.  I'll take Brian Angelichio for example.  He coached at Ithaca when I was there as the LB coach then OC when I left (he played at St. Lawrence in the 1980s).  He ends up getting a GA job at Pitt with some other Ithaca alums attached to the Dave Wannstedt coaching tree.  Brian eventually gets to the NFL where he has bounced around as a TE coach where he still works.  I'm guessing he is making 300K a year or so there.  There are four d1 TE coaches who make over a million bucks and the 25th highest paid TE coach made 350k.  In the end coaching TEs in the NFL is an amazing job, and I'd rather do that than be the Ithaca HC or Union HC.  But am I willing to move around the country with my family 10-20 years in order to achieve that...?  That is the big question these coaches need to ask themselves.  Also I'm guessing most top d3 football coaches at good academic institutions have to pay close to 100K.

Poppe was at Harvard living in the Boston area working at a great place with what I assume was livable wages, even for the Boston area.  I'm assuming he had other chances to be the HC at other d3/d2 schools if he wanted them (The Bentley HC is a d3 alum from Fitchburg who coached RBs at Harvard for 3 years and not a lot of other experience).  Now he moves his whole family to Albany for a year, and now they have to move again for what will be 5 years at least before he has to choose to stay, move up/lateral or gets fired and has no choice.  I'm assuming he liked Union but who knows maybe he didn't like it there or coaching at the d3 level in general.

But I agree with Unionpalooza that there is something odd here.  Getting an Ivy league head job with little experience tells me a few things (guessing here)

1. Not many people put in for the job because the success rate isn't going to be great there.
2.  He is just such an amazing person/coach that so many other coaches recommended him (There are some Columbia/Union/Penn connections here)
3. Harvard was stacked with so many great coaches at the top (Fein, Lamb, Larkee) that Poppe was overly qualified at his position at ST/DB coach and was ready for this move.

Anyway Union isn't alone here.  Ithaca doing the same thing by hiring Ivy league guys who might leave if the right job comes around.  Swanstrom did put in some time though, and Toerper so far appears to be doing the same.  Toerper's wife is also from upstate and is an IC grad and that could be a gamechanger as well. 

In the end do what is best for you and your family.  I think that is the bottom line.

[IC798891]

In the end do what is best for you and your family.  I think that is the bottom line.

This is what it always is.

I have been an Ithaca College lifer. Student, faculty, staff. Father worked there. Brother and sisters went here before me, as did my sister-in-law. Wife used to work here. But I have three children and I will, without the slightest hesitation or remorse, do what is best for them. Whether that's more money, a better work/life balance, or whatever. Nothing else matters even remotely as much. Nor will I begrudge anyone for doing the same.

(And that goes for single, childless people too)

[XREDDRAGON77]

In response to the Marist opening, it's truly a gorgeous campus. I was there for their game v Bucknell. Unfortunately the program draws little attention in a community that could create a solid fan base. Poughkeepsie, NY isn't a tiny upstate town.  Factor in the surrounding towns and cities and they barely fill the seats there. They updated the stadium from HS status to what I would consider a relatively nice facility over a decade ago. The program has had the same HC for 32 years and seems to be content with just being. It's a shame. Women's hoops has been their marquee sport...whomever takes over will have to chop away, but there is potential!

[Ice Bear]

In the end do what is best for you and your family.  I think that is the bottom line.

This is what it always is.

I have been an Ithaca College lifer. Student, faculty, staff. Father worked there. Brother and sisters went here before me, as did my sister-in-law. Wife used to work here. But I have three children and I will, without the slightest hesitation or remorse, do what is best for them. Whether that's more money, a better work/life balance, or whatever. Nothing else matters even remotely as much. Nor will I begrudge anyone for doing the same.

(And that goes for single, childless people too)

Well said.