FB: Liberty League

[Pat Coleman]

I'd love Hobart to play Springfield and end this debate. I don't care what the polls say except for the one the committee uses, and that is more favorable to Hobart. 

The one that the committee uses ranks Springfield No. 8 and Hobart No. 23.

[Machiavelli]

Springfield will get UMass-Dartmouth and Hobart will go to Mt. Union.

[Bartman]

I'd love Hobart to play Springfield and end this debate. I don't care what the polls say except for the one the committee uses, and that is more favorable to Hobart. 

The one that the committee uses ranks Springfield No. 8 and Hobart No. 23.

I know, not a fan of the process, but it ranks us better than the other polls. Mach is probably right another Purple Raiders encounter seems more likely   

[unionpalooza]

I'd love Hobart to play Springfield and end this debate. I don't care what the polls say except for the one the committee uses, and that is more favorable to Hobart. 

The one that the committee uses ranks Springfield No. 8 and Hobart No. 23.

I know, not a fan of the process, but it ranks us better than the other polls. Mach is probably right another Purple Raiders encounter seems more likely   

Pure numbers, Hobart is currently a 6 seed and might slide up to a 5 seat depending on what happens with the teams above it the next few weeks.  Based on the current NPI and geography, most likely first opponent is on the road at Susquahanna or UMass Dartmouth, in round two. 

[IC798891]

The larger issue is this:

There's a very real chance that just three teams finish the year with winning record, led by Hobart.

The other two are an Ithaca that — as our friends from Union have gleefully pointed out — will see their season win total decline from 12 to 9 to 6, and a Rochester team last seen giving Buff State their 7th win in the last seven years.

What do people expect the rest of the country to think about Hobart when this is the state of the conference? What top 25 team *wouldn't* be in first place in the LL right now?

[Ice Bear]

For New England and the NEWMAC, I do think this is a pretty strong Pride team. Maybe one of the stronger teams they've had in a few years and they have had some good ones.

With that being said, they are most likely a top 50 team and one that would have a very hard time beating Hobart. I think Hobart would give them fits on O, only allowing maybe one or two "fluke type" triple option scores. I think the Hobart O would definitely score enough to win by more than one score.

[Ice Bear]

When you look at Springfield I think running the offense they do and recruiting the players they do, the ones that fit their system, their ceiling is always around winning one NCAA game at best. I'm not knocking that in any way. That is much better than some other programs that sit between 25/30-75.

Years ago when my man crush played, he was arguably the best athlete in all of D3 football (a running back playing QB) for two seasons and even with that, they just couldn't get through. They ran into the beginnings of an SJF team that started making a name for themselves nationally by impressing many after having some close games against Springfield (beating the Pride in round 2 of the NCAA's in Springfield as I believe I was at that game).

The program is a very impressive one for what it is. They used to dominate NE year in and out and now obviously there are other NE teams that have caught up and even surpassed them (Endicott, UWNE-some years, Salve, Framingham, Dem Spicy Boys of yesteryear...)

[Oline89]

I don't know, just seems odd to me that this year the pollsters and several members of the board have deemed the LL a subpar league.  Hobart is 8-1 and the one loss is in OT. Please don't talk to me about the final scores, we all know that a win is a win is a win, especially in the meat grinder of the LL season.   Since a huge part of the ranking is based on historical success, I expected a liitle more respect for the champion of the LL with a stellar record.

[Pat Coleman]

A win is a win is a win ... so therefore also a loss is a loss is a loss, right?

Hobart is 8-1 and the one loss is in OT. Please don't talk to me about the final scores, we all know that a win is a win is a win ...

[Bartman]

I don't know, just seems odd to me that this year the pollsters and several members of the board have deemed the LL a subpar league.  Hobart is 8-1 and the one loss is in OT. Please don't talk to me about the final scores, we all know that a win is a win is a win, especially in the meat grinder of the LL season.   Since a huge part of the ranking is based on historical success, I expected a liitle more respect for the champion of the LL with a stellar record.

This is a very good Hobart team.I'm not saying it is as good as the teams that had Ali Marpet and Tyre Coleman on them, but this team is very tough and determined and may surprise some people in the playoffs. I'd love to play any PAC team, Springfield, JHU and Endicott, sure bring on Susquehanna, I think they all would be great games. We are now better than our scrimmage against Cortland where my jaw dropped seeing the skills of Boyes and the overall talent the Red Dragons have. So , I know we have our ceiling but, I hope we have gotten past the perception that we need muffed punts to win

[IC798891]

I don't know, just seems odd to me that this year the pollsters and several members of the board have deemed the LL a subpar league.  Hobart is 8-1 and the one loss is in OT. Please don't talk to me about the final scores, we all know that a win is a win is a win, especially in the meat grinder of the LL season

All due respect to these teams, but...nobody thinks that a St.Lawrence, Buff State, Rochester swing is a "meat grinder".

Since 2017, RPI, Ithaca, and Union are the only LL teams to win the conference championship or get a Pool C bid. Those are the LL teams that people outside of the conference perceive as good.

And in 2024, all those supposed good teams look drastically worse. And Randolph-Macon has been losing ground in the rankings all season, from 10th after the Hobart game to 5th in the ARV right now

So I suspect, what this looks like to people is simply that Hobart rose because all the other good teams on their schedule got worse.

Is that fair to Hobart? No. But I think it's what's happening

[UfanBill]

Gee I wonder where poll voters from other parts of the country are getting the conception that this is a down year for the Liberty League?...Maybe from reading the Liberty League thread on this board. Consider this...Going back to September most of us (and who knows the LL better?) have made comments about the LL being down. There was also talk about how Hobart was fortunate to win a couple games and did so only because of muffed punts. If I'm a voter from say Region 4 and I'm trying to rank the Liberty League what should I think? I'd likely take the word of the guys that know the league best right?

As to Hobart getting Top 25 Poll votes...Last year Ithaca and Union ended up in the Final Poll. Champion Ithaca at #18 and Union at #21 ...Nice... Union first entered the poll in week #8 after beating Hobart. They got 4 votes. Ithaca was firmly in the poll all season but remember they had beaten Endicott who subsequently had spanked Hardin Simmons. The next few weeks the Garnet kept winning and their vote totals went up but very slowly 5,7,12. Week #11 they were still not in the Top 25 and only fifth in the ORV list. Remember Union got into the tourney based largely on their win over Springfield. Impressively Ithaca and Union both won first round playoff games against champs from other leagues, but then fell hard in the next round, but that first round win fueled voter attention. The point is for Hobart, finish the year strong. You're already in the field win a game or two and you'll get your Top 25 spot.     

[Ice Bear]

I don't know, just seems odd to me that this year the pollsters and several members of the board have deemed the LL a subpar league.  Hobart is 8-1 and the one loss is in OT. Please don't talk to me about the final scores, we all know that a win is a win is a win, especially in the meat grinder of the LL season

All due respect to these teams, but...nobody thinks that a St.Lawrence, Buff State, Rochester swing is a "meat grinder".

Since 2017, RPI, Ithaca, and Union are the only LL teams to win the conference championship or get a Pool C bid. Those are the LL teams that people outside of the conference perceive as good.

And in 2024, all those supposed good teams look drastically worse. And Randolph-Macon has been losing ground in the rankings all season, from 10th after the Hobart game to 5th in the ARV right now

So I suspect, what this looks like to people is simply that Hobart rose because all the other good teams on their schedule got worse.

Is that fair to Hobart? No. But I think it's what's happening

I think this is a very accurate post. Especially with Union being so down after some really solid years. I think the four headed monster that is the LL (which I am proud of) are the only teams that get a look (four is a good number for a conference) from outsiders. We simply don't have a signature OOC win that would give anyone pause to take a longer look at our conference leader, Hobart.I do see both sides but I agree with IC on this as I think this is the perception most have across the country. Gotta let our play do the talking and we have not this season OOC.

[Pat Coleman]

Gee I wonder where poll voters from other parts of the country are getting the conception that this is a down year for the Liberty League?...Maybe from reading the Liberty League thread on this board.

I think about five voters at most have logins and can access this board.

[IC798891]

There was also talk about how Hobart was fortunate to win a couple games and did so only because of muffed punts.

It took until the fourth quarter of the third game of the season before Hobart scored a touchdown on a drive that didn't start after recovering a fumbled punt inside their opponents' 40 yard line.

There's no editorializing going on. Hobart's offensive output through nearly three full games was absolutely driven by opponents being unable to secure punts.

Similarly, the LL regular season OOC record

2023: 21-7
2024: 15-13 (assuming IC loses to Cortland)

The LL *is* down.

Last year, like this year they had some close calls against good teams. But, most importantly, you also had Ithaca beat Endicott on the road — ask Hardin Simmons how that went for them — and Union took Springfield to the cleaners.