FB: Liberty League

[Knightstalker]

it was only a matter of time.....what a joke. Chrysler is like the fat ugly hooker who just contracted a deadly, non-curable, contaigous disease...now there's REALLY no use for her so put her out of her misery. A $4billion trip to the clinic ain't gonna fix this one.....

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090217/ap_on_bi_ge/autos_bailout_37

How's this...if the gov't is so intent on trying to throw our money at stuff, instead of throwing $4b at a bottomless pit, why not take $2b and give each of the 30,000 displaced workers a $60,000 severance, or pay them $5k/ month (tax-free) for up to 12 months or until they get a job, whichever comes first. Better then a sharp stick in the eye. Then use the other $2b on small business grants, subsidies, and other programs to stimulate new business rather then the decrepit auto industry that is over-capacity.

After first glance at that article and seeing the pictures, are these clowns STILL building Trucks?  Here's an idea, why not sell the 3 years of inventory still sitting on your lots? 

And furthermore, cars for that matter.....why don't they just build to order and carry just enough stock at the dealerships to demo one of each model?
Why continue building inventory??  I don't get it!!!

That is the way you used to buy a car.  You went to the dealer and they had one or two fully loaded models for Demos and maybe a couple of baseline cars also.  You checked out the demos, then looked in the catalog and selected only the options you wanted and then 6 to 8 weeks later you had a new car, in a color you chose, interior you chose and options you wanted. 

KS was talking to someone he went to HS with last weekend.  His family has owned a Ford dealership for over 50 years.  They are not buying new stock for 09, they are selling off inventory and working with other dealers to find cars for people.  They figure it is better to stay in business this way then to do it the way Ford wants them to.

[Regulator]

it was only a matter of time.....what a joke. Chrysler is like the fat ugly hooker who just contracted a deadly, non-curable, contaigous disease...now there's REALLY no use for her so put her out of her misery. A $4billion trip to the clinic ain't gonna fix this one.....

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090217/ap_on_bi_ge/autos_bailout_37

How's this...if the gov't is so intent on trying to throw our money at stuff, instead of throwing $4b at a bottomless pit, why not take $2b and give each of the 30,000 displaced workers a $60,000 severance, or pay them $5k/ month (tax-free) for up to 12 months or until they get a job, whichever comes first. Better then a sharp stick in the eye. Then use the other $2b on small business grants, subsidies, and other programs to stimulate new business rather then the decrepit auto industry that is over-capacity.

After first glance at that article and seeing the pictures, are these clowns STILL building Trucks?  Here's an idea, why not sell the 3 years of inventory still sitting on your lots? 

And furthermore, cars for that matter.....why don't they just build to order and carry just enough stock at the dealerships to demo one of each model?
Why continue building inventory??  I don't get it!!!

That is the way you used to buy a car.  You went to the dealer and they had one or two fully loaded models for Demos and maybe a couple of baseline cars also.  You checked out the demos, then looked in the catalog and selected only the options you wanted and then 6 to 8 weeks later you had a new car, in a color you chose, interior you chose and options you wanted. 

KS was talking to someone he went to HS with last weekend.  His family has owned a Ford dealership for over 50 years.  They are not buying new stock for 09, they are selling off inventory and working with other dealers to find cars for people.  They figure it is better to stay in business this way then to do it the way Ford wants them to.

KS-
Back in 1915 when they turned cars every few days off the assembly line, it would take 6-8 weeks.

If Ford kept a stock of built, but not customised (still in primer or in the most popular colors, no options installed), I am SURE they could Paint, install the options and get the car out their doors that week or the week after.  The only reason that dealerships have done business for the last 5 years or so like they have, (tons of inventory, plenty of all options on hand, etc) is because people were running around with there "unrealised gains" making impulse buys on everything.

With the way that people buy now and will continue buying, it is going to be a long path before anyone pulls the impulse trigger on a $30k car.....
Can you say rent to own?

[Regulator]

Some quick math, last November GM sold 154,877 vehicles and they have about 7,000 dealers, that would equal each dealer selling approximately 22 new vehicles in the month, far less than one per day. (the 154,877 is total, including fleet) Looks like some dealers may only be selling one or two new GM vehicles per week. (actually I didnt figure that out, I just googled "gm vehicles sold")

With a capacity of probably 4X that number (ahhh yes, that wonderful housing market), I see no reason they couldn't fulfill the entire month of sold vehicles in a week.  Another way to look at it would be they can keep up with capacity with 1/4 the amount "stuff" (manpower, factories)

With that being said, demand will not be there, no matter WHAT product they put out for a long time. (give or take 10%) Plus, with the other competition, who is going to pay more than cost for these things?  I can't imagine dealers making much on a new car they sell or the factory even turning positive numbers on the balance sheet.

Even the LLPP knows that you wouldn't run a business that doesn't put cash in your pocket at the end of the day!

[Knightstalker]

it was only a matter of time.....what a joke. Chrysler is like the fat ugly hooker who just contracted a deadly, non-curable, contaigous disease...now there's REALLY no use for her so put her out of her misery. A $4billion trip to the clinic ain't gonna fix this one.....

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090217/ap_on_bi_ge/autos_bailout_37

How's this...if the gov't is so intent on trying to throw our money at stuff, instead of throwing $4b at a bottomless pit, why not take $2b and give each of the 30,000 displaced workers a $60,000 severance, or pay them $5k/ month (tax-free) for up to 12 months or until they get a job, whichever comes first. Better then a sharp stick in the eye. Then use the other $2b on small business grants, subsidies, and other programs to stimulate new business rather then the decrepit auto industry that is over-capacity.

After first glance at that article and seeing the pictures, are these clowns STILL building Trucks?  Here's an idea, why not sell the 3 years of inventory still sitting on your lots? 

And furthermore, cars for that matter.....why don't they just build to order and carry just enough stock at the dealerships to demo one of each model?
Why continue building inventory??  I don't get it!!!

That is the way you used to buy a car.  You went to the dealer and they had one or two fully loaded models for Demos and maybe a couple of baseline cars also.  You checked out the demos, then looked in the catalog and selected only the options you wanted and then 6 to 8 weeks later you had a new car, in a color you chose, interior you chose and options you wanted. 

KS was talking to someone he went to HS with last weekend.  His family has owned a Ford dealership for over 50 years.  They are not buying new stock for 09, they are selling off inventory and working with other dealers to find cars for people.  They figure it is better to stay in business this way then to do it the way Ford wants them to.

KS-
Back in 1915 when they turned cars every few days off the assembly line, it would take 6-8 weeks.

If Ford kept a stock of built, but not customised (still in primer or in the most popular colors, no options installed), I am SURE they could Paint, install the options and get the car out their doors that week or the week after.  The only reason that dealerships have done business for the last 5 years or so like they have, (tons of inventory, plenty of all options on hand, etc) is because people were running around with there "unrealised gains" making impulse buys on everything.

With the way that people buy now and will continue buying, it is going to be a long path before anyone pulls the impulse trigger on a $30k car.....
Can you say rent to own?

Reg, up until the 80's it usually took 6 to 8 weeks to deliver a new car when you ordered it, they usually weren't built until the orders came in, but orders were steady back then.  In the 80's the auto companies started shipping cars to the dealerships with the X, XL XLS packages etc and that is when most people stopped ordering cars and buying them off the lots.  People have been going to the lot to buy cars immediately for the last 20 some years.  It has to change and the manufacturers need to change with it.

[PBR...]

Some quick math, last November GM sold 154,877 vehicles and they have about 7,000 dealers, that would equal each dealer selling approximately 22 new vehicles in the month, far less than one per day. (the 154,877 is total, including fleet) Looks like some dealers may only be selling one or two new GM vehicles per week. (actually I didnt figure that out, I just googled "gm vehicles sold")

With a capacity of probably 4X that number (ahhh yes, that wonderful housing market), I see no reason they couldn't fulfill the entire month of sold vehicles in a week.  Another way to look at it would be they can keep up with capacity with 1/4 the amount "stuff" (manpower, factories)

With that being said, demand will not be there, no matter WHAT product they put out for a long time. (give or take 10%) Plus, with the other competition, who is going to pay more than cost for these things?  I can't imagine dealers making much on a new car they sell or the factory even turning positive numbers on the balance sheet.

Even the LLPP knows that you wouldn't run a business that doesn't put cash in your pocket at the end of the day!

correct reg...pbr's family owns a new car dealership, there was a feeling for a long time that people made alot of money off selling new cars...not true in reality most money is made off of service...also w/ the internet everyone found out easily what dealers paid for a car and cut right to the chase w/ car shopping and took lots of profit out of it. there is more wiggle room in more expensive cars i.e. porsche and ferrari but very little wiggle room in your fords/gm etc...

[Knightstalker]

Some quick math, last November GM sold 154,877 vehicles and they have about 7,000 dealers, that would equal each dealer selling approximately 22 new vehicles in the month, far less than one per day. (the 154,877 is total, including fleet) Looks like some dealers may only be selling one or two new GM vehicles per week. (actually I didnt figure that out, I just googled "gm vehicles sold")

With a capacity of probably 4X that number (ahhh yes, that wonderful housing market), I see no reason they couldn't fulfill the entire month of sold vehicles in a week.  Another way to look at it would be they can keep up with capacity with 1/4 the amount "stuff" (manpower, factories)

With that being said, demand will not be there, no matter WHAT product they put out for a long time. (give or take 10%) Plus, with the other competition, who is going to pay more than cost for these things?  I can't imagine dealers making much on a new car they sell or the factory even turning positive numbers on the balance sheet.

Even the LLPP knows that you wouldn't run a business that doesn't put cash in your pocket at the end of the day!

correct reg...pbr's family owns a new car dealership, there was a feeling for a long time that people made alot of money off selling new cars...not true in reality most money is made off of service...also w/ the internet everyone found out easily what dealers paid for a car and cut right to the chase w/ car shopping and took lots of profit out of it. there is more wiggle room in more expensive cars i.e. porsche and ferrari but very little wiggle room in your fords/gm etc...

The guy KS knows from HS told KS that service, offering aftermarket options and selling the Certified Used Cars was where the money was.  He said the used cars wasn't the greatest money maker but it was steady money and they make for better commissions usually because there was usually a higher percentage of profit involved.

[Regulator]

Some quick math, last November GM sold 154,877 vehicles and they have about 7,000 dealers, that would equal each dealer selling approximately 22 new vehicles in the month, far less than one per day. (the 154,877 is total, including fleet) Looks like some dealers may only be selling one or two new GM vehicles per week. (actually I didnt figure that out, I just googled "gm vehicles sold")

With a capacity of probably 4X that number (ahhh yes, that wonderful housing market), I see no reason they couldn't fulfill the entire month of sold vehicles in a week.  Another way to look at it would be they can keep up with capacity with 1/4 the amount "stuff" (manpower, factories)

With that being said, demand will not be there, no matter WHAT product they put out for a long time. (give or take 10%) Plus, with the other competition, who is going to pay more than cost for these things?  I can't imagine dealers making much on a new car they sell or the factory even turning positive numbers on the balance sheet.

Even the LLPP knows that you wouldn't run a business that doesn't put cash in your pocket at the end of the day!

correct reg...pbr's family owns a new car dealership, there was a feeling for a long time that people made alot of money off selling new cars...not true in reality most money is made off of service...also w/ the internet everyone found out easily what dealers paid for a car and cut right to the chase w/ car shopping and took lots of profit out of it. there is more wiggle room in more expensive cars i.e. porsche and ferrari but very little wiggle room in your fords/gm etc...

PBR-
The interweb ruined alot of things for small businesses (I consider a car dealership a small business).
I can go online, find 50 of the exact car and configuration I am looking for, and buy whatever one I want with the same warranty and all.  The only thing I need to account for is the $300-700 bucks it costs for shipping.

What that means for the dealers is that for every person looking for a car, it is an auction to get to their lowest price. (plus now, you have to throw in the Certified Pre-Owned BS.)  This is a no win situation for Brick and Motar establishments, unless service far exceeds the new car sales.

Besides service, I don't know how these types of businesses stay at it. (You can lump any good commercially available on the internet into that statement)

[PBR...]

Some quick math, last November GM sold 154,877 vehicles and they have about 7,000 dealers, that would equal each dealer selling approximately 22 new vehicles in the month, far less than one per day. (the 154,877 is total, including fleet) Looks like some dealers may only be selling one or two new GM vehicles per week. (actually I didnt figure that out, I just googled "gm vehicles sold")

With a capacity of probably 4X that number (ahhh yes, that wonderful housing market), I see no reason they couldn't fulfill the entire month of sold vehicles in a week.  Another way to look at it would be they can keep up with capacity with 1/4 the amount "stuff" (manpower, factories)

With that being said, demand will not be there, no matter WHAT product they put out for a long time. (give or take 10%) Plus, with the other competition, who is going to pay more than cost for these things?  I can't imagine dealers making much on a new car they sell or the factory even turning positive numbers on the balance sheet.

Even the LLPP knows that you wouldn't run a business that doesn't put cash in your pocket at the end of the day!

correct reg...pbr's family owns a new car dealership, there was a feeling for a long time that people made alot of money off selling new cars...not true in reality most money is made off of service...also w/ the internet everyone found out easily what dealers paid for a car and cut right to the chase w/ car shopping and took lots of profit out of it. there is more wiggle room in more expensive cars i.e. porsche and ferrari but very little wiggle room in your fords/gm etc...

PBR-
The interweb ruined alot of things for small businesses (I consider a car dealership a small business).
I can go online, find 50 of the exact car and configuration I am looking for, and buy whatever one I want with the same warranty and all.  The only thing I need to account for is the $300-700 bucks it costs for shipping.

What that means for the dealers is that for every person looking for a car, it is an auction to get to their lowest price. (plus now, you have to throw in the Certified Pre-Owned BS.)  This is a no win situation for Brick and Motar establishments, unless service far exceeds the new car sales.

Besides service, I don't know how these types of businesses stay at it. (You can lump any good commercially available on the internet into that statement)

w/ the new younger generation car dealers will have to change...right now there is enough clientele that enjoy the relationship they have built w/ the salesman over the years that the older generation enjoys coming out driving the car and buying it from him. the new younger generation will test drive then go shop around the net for the best deal, so something will have to change or give. that also is why gm screwed up saturn, they put their paws on saturn the original saturn there was virtually new wiggle room in price. it was the basically the same at all dealers and let service win out the customers loyalty which is what all of the car dealers should of done. but gm in their usual fashion couldnt let a good thing go and had to insert their philsophies into saturn and ticked off a lot of loyal clientele who ended leaving saturn

[JT]

gm is finally doing what they should of done years ago...good bye to pontiac, good bye to saturn, good bye to saab, they should also say good bye to buick. they are finally getting lean and chopping off the rosie o'donnell fat that has been there for years, now if they were only able to do something about their long term obligations to retirees and totally unrealistic expectations gm could possibly emerge lean and mean after this bloodbath

Saturn started off the right way, but got lost in the GM culture rather than stay innovative and independent.

[JT]

Some quick math, last November GM sold 154,877 vehicles and they have about 7,000 dealers, that would equal each dealer selling approximately 22 new vehicles in the month, far less than one per day. (the 154,877 is total, including fleet) Looks like some dealers may only be selling one or two new GM vehicles per week. (actually I didnt figure that out, I just googled "gm vehicles sold")

With a capacity of probably 4X that number (ahhh yes, that wonderful housing market), I see no reason they couldn't fulfill the entire month of sold vehicles in a week.  Another way to look at it would be they can keep up with capacity with 1/4 the amount "stuff" (manpower, factories)

With that being said, demand will not be there, no matter WHAT product they put out for a long time. (give or take 10%) Plus, with the other competition, who is going to pay more than cost for these things?  I can't imagine dealers making much on a new car they sell or the factory even turning positive numbers on the balance sheet.

Even the LLPP knows that you wouldn't run a business that doesn't put cash in your pocket at the end of the day!

correct reg...pbr's family owns a new car dealership, there was a feeling for a long time that people made alot of money off selling new cars...not true in reality most money is made off of service...also w/ the internet everyone found out easily what dealers paid for a car and cut right to the chase w/ car shopping and took lots of profit out of it. there is more wiggle room in more expensive cars i.e. porsche and ferrari but very little wiggle room in your fords/gm etc...

PBR-
The interweb ruined alot of things for small businesses (I consider a car dealership a small business).
I can go online, find 50 of the exact car and configuration I am looking for, and buy whatever one I want with the same warranty and all.  The only thing I need to account for is the $300-700 bucks it costs for shipping.

What that means for the dealers is that for every person looking for a car, it is an auction to get to their lowest price. (plus now, you have to throw in the Certified Pre-Owned BS.)  This is a no win situation for Brick and Motar establishments, unless service far exceeds the new car sales.

Besides service, I don't know how these types of businesses stay at it. (You can lump any good commercially available on the internet into that statement)

Then are we left to car reviewers like Consumer Reports in lieu of a test drive?  JT uses reviews, but after that its how car handles and feels to JT that make the sale.

[lewdogg11]

LD11 tries to read today's LLPP...

[Regulator]

Some quick math, last November GM sold 154,877 vehicles and they have about 7,000 dealers, that would equal each dealer selling approximately 22 new vehicles in the month, far less than one per day. (the 154,877 is total, including fleet) Looks like some dealers may only be selling one or two new GM vehicles per week. (actually I didnt figure that out, I just googled "gm vehicles sold")

With a capacity of probably 4X that number (ahhh yes, that wonderful housing market), I see no reason they couldn't fulfill the entire month of sold vehicles in a week.  Another way to look at it would be they can keep up with capacity with 1/4 the amount "stuff" (manpower, factories)

With that being said, demand will not be there, no matter WHAT product they put out for a long time. (give or take 10%) Plus, with the other competition, who is going to pay more than cost for these things?  I can't imagine dealers making much on a new car they sell or the factory even turning positive numbers on the balance sheet.

Even the LLPP knows that you wouldn't run a business that doesn't put cash in your pocket at the end of the day!

correct reg...pbr's family owns a new car dealership, there was a feeling for a long time that people made alot of money off selling new cars...not true in reality most money is made off of service...also w/ the internet everyone found out easily what dealers paid for a car and cut right to the chase w/ car shopping and took lots of profit out of it. there is more wiggle room in more expensive cars i.e. porsche and ferrari but very little wiggle room in your fords/gm etc...

PBR-
The interweb ruined alot of things for small businesses (I consider a car dealership a small business).
I can go online, find 50 of the exact car and configuration I am looking for, and buy whatever one I want with the same warranty and all.  The only thing I need to account for is the $300-700 bucks it costs for shipping.

What that means for the dealers is that for every person looking for a car, it is an auction to get to their lowest price. (plus now, you have to throw in the Certified Pre-Owned BS.)  This is a no win situation for Brick and Motar establishments, unless service far exceeds the new car sales.

Besides service, I don't know how these types of businesses stay at it. (You can lump any good commercially available on the internet into that statement)

Then are we left to car reviewers like Consumer Reports in lieu of a test drive?  JT uses reviews, but after that its how car handles and feels to JT that make the sale.

Read PBR's reply.  What is to stop anyone from going to test drive a Chevy Malibu at their local dealer in Chicago, which is priced at $23,500, falling in love with it, then buy the exact same car from Texas or something and have it shipped.

Rinse and repeat for anything really-
Digital Camera
Computer
Fork Lift
Little League catchers mitt

As far as my comment about brick and motar, do I really need a 5 acre car lot with a "world class" product showroom in order to house 5 cars?....you know what....I'd rather rent retail space in a mall, keep my 5-10 models there, then have a handful of demo cars out back.  It's inventory that is killing all these dealers!....no inventory, no problem.

You see, you drive, you like, you buy.  Since my overhead is low, you buy from me since my pricing should be the least inexpensive.  While I am at it, I am going to take deals away from those "big bad dealerships" that have all the lots full of cool cars by pricing myself 5% below them on any given model, with the only hitch being that they need to wait a couple weeks for there new whip. (actually, what I'd probably do is just wholesale the car from a local deal anyway, since they are sitting on tons of inventory)

Anyone that knows how to work a computer can list a car on ebay or autotrader, for $25k a year, you can pay someone to answer the phone and emails.

[Senor RedTackle]

it was only a matter of time.....what a joke. Chrysler is like the fat ugly hooker who just contracted a deadly, non-curable, contaigous disease...now there's REALLY no use for her so put her out of her misery. A $4billion trip to the clinic ain't gonna fix this one.....

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090217/ap_on_bi_ge/autos_bailout_37

How's this...if the gov't is so intent on trying to throw our money at stuff, instead of throwing $4b at a bottomless pit, why not take $2b and give each of the 30,000 displaced workers a $60,000 severance, or pay them $5k/ month (tax-free) for up to 12 months or until they get a job, whichever comes first. Better then a sharp stick in the eye. Then use the other $2b on small business grants, subsidies, and other programs to stimulate new business rather then the decrepit auto industry that is over-capacity.

After first glance at that article and seeing the pictures, are these clowns STILL building Trucks?  Here's an idea, why not sell the 3 years of inventory still sitting on your lots? 

And furthermore, cars for that matter.....why don't they just build to order and carry just enough stock at the dealerships to demo one of each model?
Why continue building inventory??  I don't get it!!!

That is the way you used to buy a car.  You went to the dealer and they had one or two fully loaded models for Demos and maybe a couple of baseline cars also.  You checked out the demos, then looked in the catalog and selected only the options you wanted and then 6 to 8 weeks later you had a new car, in a color you chose, interior you chose and options you wanted. 

KS was talking to someone he went to HS with last weekend.  His family has owned a Ford dealership for over 50 years.  They are not buying new stock for 09, they are selling off inventory and working with other dealers to find cars for people.  They figure it is better to stay in business this way then to do it the way Ford wants them to.

This is exactly how RT remembers going to "buy" a car w/ his dad when RT was a kid in the late 70s and early 80s....RT remembers what a huge deal it was when Papa RT actually bought a car from the lot b/c he got such a great deal on it...

[Knightstalker]

it was only a matter of time.....what a joke. Chrysler is like the fat ugly hooker who just contracted a deadly, non-curable, contaigous disease...now there's REALLY no use for her so put her out of her misery. A $4billion trip to the clinic ain't gonna fix this one.....

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090217/ap_on_bi_ge/autos_bailout_37

How's this...if the gov't is so intent on trying to throw our money at stuff, instead of throwing $4b at a bottomless pit, why not take $2b and give each of the 30,000 displaced workers a $60,000 severance, or pay them $5k/ month (tax-free) for up to 12 months or until they get a job, whichever comes first. Better then a sharp stick in the eye. Then use the other $2b on small business grants, subsidies, and other programs to stimulate new business rather then the decrepit auto industry that is over-capacity.

After first glance at that article and seeing the pictures, are these clowns STILL building Trucks?  Here's an idea, why not sell the 3 years of inventory still sitting on your lots? 

And furthermore, cars for that matter.....why don't they just build to order and carry just enough stock at the dealerships to demo one of each model?
Why continue building inventory??  I don't get it!!!

That is the way you used to buy a car.  You went to the dealer and they had one or two fully loaded models for Demos and maybe a couple of baseline cars also.  You checked out the demos, then looked in the catalog and selected only the options you wanted and then 6 to 8 weeks later you had a new car, in a color you chose, interior you chose and options you wanted. 

KS was talking to someone he went to HS with last weekend.  His family has owned a Ford dealership for over 50 years.  They are not buying new stock for 09, they are selling off inventory and working with other dealers to find cars for people.  They figure it is better to stay in business this way then to do it the way Ford wants them to.

This is exactly how RT remembers going to "buy" a car w/ his dad when RT was a kid in the late 70s and early 80s....RT remembers what a huge deal it was when Papa RT actually bought a car from the lot b/c he got such a great deal on it...

If you were going to buy off the lot it always paid to buy in October or November back in the day.  The dealers wanted the old demos and stock off the lot before the new models really started coming in.

KS dad bought a 72 Maverick for Mom KS in late 72, the car was loaded with just about everything but AC and listed for around 2700.00, dad KS got it for 1550.00 with about 4K miles on it.  Dad was proud of that deal, better than the one he got on the 72 Gran Torino wagon.  KS learned to drive on the Gran Torino, what a boat, KS loved that car.

[PBR...]

since we are all athletes here did anyone ever see anything like this happen in a sport while you were participating...talk about giving it everything u had!!

http://img12.imageshack.us/img12/3302/1212416323035ew3.jpg