FB: Liberty League

[JT]

Maybe it's just that the head coach sucks?

And Rudy makes a better title for a movie.  

[union89]

How does the AD have any control about who gets into the school and who gets "passes" or not? 

(JU now thinks back to whether or not he got a "pass" when admitted to Union.)

Part of my point.....this has been the ongoing conversation on why Union hasn't made in farther in the playoffs for both Reno & FR. 

['gro]

The playoffs conversation can apply to the big 3 in general.  Since expansion, only RPI has made it past the 2nd round (2003).

Hobart has won a few first round games, Union only once, and RPI's 3 other playoff appearances were 1 and dones. 2005 was a high point for the LL when Hobart and Union beat good teams in Rd1 then lost close ones in Rd2 (p.s. RPI beat the all mighty SJF in ECACs that year).

[dlippiel]

The playoffs conversation can apply to the big 3 in general.  Since expansion, only RPI has made it past the 2nd round (2003).

Hobart has won a few first round games, Union only once, and RPI's 3 other playoff appearances were 1 and dones. 2005 was a high point for the LL when Hobart and Union beat good teams in Rd1 then lost close ones in Rd2 (p.s. RPI beat the all mighty SJF in ECACs that year).

Let's just hope at least one of the big three make some noise this year! Of course dlippiel prefers it be Union and/or Bart but he is working on his issues with RPI through counseling.

Counselor: So David how was your week?

David: I hate RPI!

Counselor: David how are you feeling right now?

dlippiel: I hate RPI and their new stadium!

Counselor: Which direction should we go with our sessions?

dlippiel: Any direction away from Troy and the RPI campus...I hate RPI!

Counselor: David, I feel we are making progress!

[stimulator]

Geez dlippiel:

Sounds like you just need a session in a state-of-the-art hydrotherapy pool..

must be one close by??

[Garnet]

Right, the new Lax coach who happens to be the 1st full-time head Lax coach at Union. Which means that  a whole new job was created. Who makes that call? Board of Trustees. Head Lax Coach used to be an Ast. FB Coach (Browny then Chambliss). The Board created the clear upgrade of the Lax Coaching situation and to the ADs credit, he made a great hire. Wehrum is legit. BUT, this only proves my point that Lax is now held in a higher regard than football. Lax has a full-time assistant and 2 GAs. This full-time assistant is also an assistant football coach. But during football season he is asked to coach lacrosse as well. Taking him out of the office where he could be preparing for the upcoming game. If the AD was truly a "football guy" wouldnt he tell the Head Lax coach that in his non-traditional season he has to make do with just his 2 GAs? Wouldnt hurt lacrosse at all. Would help football. Yet in this case, Lax is being improved and football is being, very directly, hurt.

don't forget that during Union's heyday the head lacrosse was also an asst. football coach.  Priore and before him Toop

There has to be more to the decline than the coaching situation. I agree with 'gro on this topic that has been covered a couple of years ago here.  Other programs have clearly put more emphasis on football and it looks like Union has just held it at the same level thus allowing their rivals to catch up and/or surpass them.

[Reno Hightower]

How does the AD have any control about who gets into the school and who gets "passes" or not? 

(JU now thinks back to whether or not he got a "pass" when admitted to Union.)

The AD determines how many "passes" each team in his department gets. So it is his call which are the most important sports. Of course team size has to be factored in. Thus football will probably almost always have the most at any school that has such a system. The issue here is that Union used to have X and now has Z. Z being a lesser number. 20% less to be exact. Which makes a difference, in a 35 player recruiting class of say 7 kids. Multiply that over 4 years and its 28 players. Now you see where Unions Defense sucking and lack of a kicker and stuff like that being a big deal. Makes depth a big issue, which really came into play last year.

The AD does not determine whom Admissions lets into school with those "passes". He should however, be a liason between the recruiters and the admissions department should either side not be fulfilling its end of the bargain. There is a less than good relationship between Unions Admissions and these "Passes" with the Athletics teams in general right now.......thus none of the Athletic Teams at Union are really knocking the ball out of the park.

[dlippiel]

How does the AD have any control about who gets into the school and who gets "passes" or not? 

(JU now thinks back to whether or not he got a "pass" when admitted to Union.)

The AD determines how many "passes" each team in his department gets. So it is his call which are the most important sports. Of course team size has to be factored in. Thus football will probably almost always have the most at any school that has such a system. The issue here is that Union used to have X and now has Z. Z being a lesser number. 20% less to be exact. Which makes a difference, in a 35 player recruiting class of say 7 kids. Multiply that over 4 years and its 28 players. Now you see where Unions Defense sucking and lack of a kicker and stuff like that being a big deal. Makes depth a big issue, which really came into play last year.

The AD does not determine whom Admissions lets into school with those "passes". He should however, be a liason between the recruiters and the admissions department should either side not be fulfilling its end of the bargain. There is a less than good relationship between Unions Admissions and these "Passes" with the Athletics teams in general right now.......thus none of the Athletic Teams at Union are really knocking the ball out of the park.

Well reno it depends, I mean look at women's soccer (been nasty the past few years), womens softball, and have to give a shout to the hockey program. For a non-scholarship program they have been nothing short of great the past couple years under Nate. If you told me UNion hockey would be 10-1-1 in its last 12 against RPI and come a hair away from making it to the Times Union Center I would have laughed out loud and wet myself similtaniously. When you look at the big picture I think U sports do quite well overall. I think our problem is that football is our passion, or history for many, and we have seen it go from a national power, to a regional power (which it still borders on), to losing their last 4 against RPI. I think we just really really really want to see this program flourish because of its history and current potential. Hence the debate continues as to why this isn't happening.

[Jonny Utah]

How does the AD have any control about who gets into the school and who gets "passes" or not?  

(JU now thinks back to whether or not he got a "pass" when admitted to Union.)

The AD determines how many "passes" each team in his department gets. So it is his call which are the most important sports. Of course team size has to be factored in. Thus football will probably almost always have the most at any school that has such a system. The issue here is that Union used to have X and now has Z. Z being a lesser number. 20% less to be exact. Which makes a difference, in a 35 player recruiting class of say 7 kids. Multiply that over 4 years and its 28 players. Now you see where Unions Defense sucking and lack of a kicker and stuff like that being a big deal. Makes depth a big issue, which really came into play last year.

The AD does not determine whom Admissions lets into school with those "passes". He should however, be a liason between the recruiters and the admissions department should either side not be fulfilling its end of the bargain. There is a less than good relationship between Unions Admissions and these "Passes" with the Athletics teams in general right now.......thus none of the Athletic Teams at Union are really knocking the ball out of the park.

This just made me think of something.  I heard from a few sources that one of the reasons Ithaca was not invited into the LL was because of the way Ithaca budgets its athletics in terms of coaching, scheduling and roster/school size and type.  

Ithaca has 3 full time football coaches, 2 GAs, and now I beleive 2 other coaches that coach other sports or are strength coaches.  This would give it an advantage over a school like Union that doesn't  (or doesnt want to) fund the sport the same way.  Ithacas head lax coach still coaches womens soccer goalies I think.  But you can bet coach long does not let those duties intefere with his fall lax or fall recruiting duties.  The head baseball coach also only coaches baseball.

And a school size and type (northeastern surburban kids) with a population of 6,000+ (of mostly liberal arts) was also seen as a possible advantage for Ithaca.  Well not really an advantage, but at least a difference between the other schools (RPI and RITs "nerds", and Bards, Vassars, and Skidmores  "geeks") .  Ithaca has the music kids, but not at the same level of RITs or RPIs academic kids I assume.  What I mean is that schools like RPI, WPI, and RIT have specific programs that attract a specific academic interest where Ithaca usually has more general liberal arts kids that enter not knowing what the hell they want to do...JU included.  Union and Hobart are more like Ithaca in that sense, but have 1/3 of the population I believe.

The large phys ed. and excersice/phys ed/athletic training/sports science program at Ithaca was also possibly an issue (athletes will tend to be phys ed majors).

At most nescac schools, the head football coach is an assistant of another sport and vise versa (baseball/lax).  From what you are saying Reno it looks like Union is cutting back on a lot of the budget that Ithaca does not want to cut.

I could be reading into this thing too much, but I can't really see how the Union AD is doing a bad thing by trying to treat womens and mens sports teams fairly.

[dlippiel]

Geez dlippiel:

Sounds like you just need a session in a state-of-the-art hydrotherapy pool..

must be one close by??

Have you seen the set-up over there? It really is fantastic. The hydrotherapy pool is "transparent" so the trainers can assess how well it is benefitting the athletes. Pretty cool if you aks me. I think I will actually watch a game at the new stadium this season. I drove over recently to check it out and was very impressed. It is not close to being as big as it appeared on TV but it still is big! Yet I felt that the way the stands are set-up it may prove to be a very intimate setting for a game.

[superman57]

IS the LL playing fantasy again, if so Superman would like another shot to beat all of you

[Reno Hightower]

How does the AD have any control about who gets into the school and who gets "passes" or not?  

(JU now thinks back to whether or not he got a "pass" when admitted to Union.)

The AD determines how many "passes" each team in his department gets. So it is his call which are the most important sports. Of course team size has to be factored in. Thus football will probably almost always have the most at any school that has such a system. The issue here is that Union used to have X and now has Z. Z being a lesser number. 20% less to be exact. Which makes a difference, in a 35 player recruiting class of say 7 kids. Multiply that over 4 years and its 28 players. Now you see where Unions Defense sucking and lack of a kicker and stuff like that being a big deal. Makes depth a big issue, which really came into play last year.

The AD does not determine whom Admissions lets into school with those "passes". He should however, be a liason between the recruiters and the admissions department should either side not be fulfilling its end of the bargain. There is a less than good relationship between Unions Admissions and these "Passes" with the Athletics teams in general right now.......thus none of the Athletic Teams at Union are really knocking the ball out of the park.

This just made me think of something.  I heard from a few sources that one of the reasons Ithaca was not invited into the LL was because of the way Ithaca budgets its athletics in terms of coaching, scheduling and roster/school size and type.  

Ithaca has 3 full time football coaches, 2 GAs, and now I beleive 2 other coaches that coach other sports or are strength coaches.  This would give it an advantage over a school like Union that doesn't  (or doesnt want to) fund the sport the same way.  Ithacas head lax coach still coaches womens soccer goalies I think.  But you can bet coach long does not let those duties intefere with his fall lax or fall recruiting duties.  The head baseball coach also only coaches baseball.

And a school size and type (northeastern surburban kids) with a population of 6,000+ (of mostly liberal arts) was also seen as a possible advantage for Ithaca.  Well not really an advantage, but at least a difference between the other schools (RPI and RITs "nerds", and Bards, Vassars, and Skidmores  "geeks") .  Ithaca has the music kids, but not at the same level of RITs or RPIs academic kids I assume.  What I mean is that schools like RPI, WPI, and RIT have specific programs that attract a specific academic interest where Ithaca usually has more general liberal arts kids that enter not knowing what the hell they want to do...JU included.  Union and Hobart are more like Ithaca in that sense, but have 1/3 of the population I believe.

The large phys ed. and excersice/phys ed/athletic training/sports science program at Ithaca was also possibly an issue (athletes will tend to be phys ed majors).

At most nescac schools, the head football coach is an assistant of another sport and vise versa (baseball/lax).  From what you are saying Reno it looks like Union is cutting back on a lot of the budget that Ithaca does not want to cut.

I could be reading into this thing too much, but I can't really see how the Union AD is doing a bad thing by trying to treat womens and mens sports teams fairly.

Well if you were to look at Coach Brown as the Womens Softball Coach who happens to be an assistant in softball then it shows that it is not fair. When he is the Softball Coach he is not expected to do any football work but in the heart of football season he is leaving the office to run an out of season practice. So is that treating men and women equally? No, its the woman's sport getting better treatment.

And is it a bad thing if he is trying to treat everyone "equal", no. But Brownie has been coaching womens softball at Union for years now. Has an amazing record. Does a fantastic job. Nobody can deny this. He did this for years without ever attending 1 fall practice. Why change this? The team is great! And it hurts football. The most important coach on staff is being pulled out of the office at crucial game planning times to run practices that he clearly does not need to run to be very very successful.

Coach Brown being the womens softball coach.....and how this has been handled is exhibit a in how the football program at union does not garner the support that it once did.

[Reno Hightower]

IS the LL playing fantasy again, if so Superman would like another shot to beat all of you

Reno also!

[Jonny Utah]

How does the AD have any control about who gets into the school and who gets "passes" or not?  

(JU now thinks back to whether or not he got a "pass" when admitted to Union.)

The AD determines how many "passes" each team in his department gets. So it is his call which are the most important sports. Of course team size has to be factored in. Thus football will probably almost always have the most at any school that has such a system. The issue here is that Union used to have X and now has Z. Z being a lesser number. 20% less to be exact. Which makes a difference, in a 35 player recruiting class of say 7 kids. Multiply that over 4 years and its 28 players. Now you see where Unions Defense sucking and lack of a kicker and stuff like that being a big deal. Makes depth a big issue, which really came into play last year.

The AD does not determine whom Admissions lets into school with those "passes". He should however, be a liason between the recruiters and the admissions department should either side not be fulfilling its end of the bargain. There is a less than good relationship between Unions Admissions and these "Passes" with the Athletics teams in general right now.......thus none of the Athletic Teams at Union are really knocking the ball out of the park.

This just made me think of something.  I heard from a few sources that one of the reasons Ithaca was not invited into the LL was because of the way Ithaca budgets its athletics in terms of coaching, scheduling and roster/school size and type.  

Ithaca has 3 full time football coaches, 2 GAs, and now I beleive 2 other coaches that coach other sports or are strength coaches.  This would give it an advantage over a school like Union that doesn't  (or doesnt want to) fund the sport the same way.  Ithacas head lax coach still coaches womens soccer goalies I think.  But you can bet coach long does not let those duties intefere with his fall lax or fall recruiting duties.  The head baseball coach also only coaches baseball.

And a school size and type (northeastern surburban kids) with a population of 6,000+ (of mostly liberal arts) was also seen as a possible advantage for Ithaca.  Well not really an advantage, but at least a difference between the other schools (RPI and RITs "nerds", and Bards, Vassars, and Skidmores  "geeks") .  Ithaca has the music kids, but not at the same level of RITs or RPIs academic kids I assume.  What I mean is that schools like RPI, WPI, and RIT have specific programs that attract a specific academic interest where Ithaca usually has more general liberal arts kids that enter not knowing what the hell they want to do...JU included.  Union and Hobart are more like Ithaca in that sense, but have 1/3 of the population I believe.

The large phys ed. and excersice/phys ed/athletic training/sports science program at Ithaca was also possibly an issue (athletes will tend to be phys ed majors).

At most nescac schools, the head football coach is an assistant of another sport and vise versa (baseball/lax).  From what you are saying Reno it looks like Union is cutting back on a lot of the budget that Ithaca does not want to cut.

I could be reading into this thing too much, but I can't really see how the Union AD is doing a bad thing by trying to treat womens and mens sports teams fairly.

Well if you were to look at Coach Brown as the Womens Softball Coach who happens to be an assistant in softball then it shows that it is not fair. When he is the Softball Coach he is not expected to do any football work but in the heart of football season he is leaving the office to run an out of season practice. So is that treating men and women equally? No, its the woman's sport getting better treatment.

And is it a bad thing if he is trying to treat everyone "equal", no. But Brownie has been coaching womens softball at Union for years now. Has an amazing record. Does a fantastic job. Nobody can deny this. He did this for years without ever attending 1 fall practice. Why change this? The team is great! And it hurts football. The most important coach on staff is being pulled out of the office at crucial game planning times to run practices that he clearly does not need to run to be very very successful.

Coach Brown being the womens softball coach.....and how this has been handled is exhibit a in how the football program at union does not garner the support that it once did.

Yea a defensive coordinator should focus on football 100% during the season I agree.

['gro]

IS the LL playing fantasy again, if so Superman would like another shot to beat all of you

Reno also!

Say word.  Commishinegro is working on that... probably going back to the 16 team league from a few years ago.  Be on the lookout for an email if you've played before.