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Rev-

I appreciate your rant about education...I agree with you for the most part and to be quite honest, you have me rethinking a few things.

Universities are driving up tuition because they can is kind of BS.  The market has dictated that anyone who wants to do anything will probably need a decent college name on their resume and Universities have taken full advantage of that by increasing tuition and their "avg starting salaries".  Are those really average?...or just the average of the students with sweet jobs that responded?

I disagree with your point about paying too much for too little.  I think it also has to do with kids that for the most part had a lot handed to them.  In my mind, once you get your name on a diploma and walked the walk, now it's the skill of the individual to "talk the talk".  So, to recap, are people paying too much for degrees?  Yes....  Do companies just give out corner offices and 75G's because you have "Dickenson" written across the top of your diploma, NO

I learned more in our group projects, playing football and during summer internships than I did in the classroom.

What Reg said

[SaintsFAN]

whoa whoa whoa....Isn't Monroe a community college?  Nothing wrong with that but 70K for a community college?

At $70K for community college, sounds like our girl Trina flunked a few classes

[pumkinattack]

I've often wondered if the gov't took a hard look at the University system how they'd describe/report their findings with respect to these non-profit institutions.  The Ivy's have large cap company endownments and spend a minor  fraction of what they've taken in and/or earned over the years.  Many colleges have flown under the radar, but not even hit the tax exemption minimum of 5%.  You could also make the case that schools in brackets effectively collude on pricing.  It's the only system where higher prices somehow reflect on better education (in perception).  It'll be interesting if the private loan market remains shut down and stafford changes how schools are going to handle their pricing.    

[Knightstalker]

whoa whoa whoa....Isn't Monroe a community college?  Nothing wrong with that but 70K for a community college?

At $70K for community college, sounds like our girl Trina flunked a few classes

Link to Monroe website.  Looking at the tuition and fees for the next year the 70K figure could be about right for a bachelors degree from them.

they offer both Bachelors and Associates degrees.

[mattvsmith]

I've often wondered if the gov't took a hard look at the University system how they'd describe/report their findings with respect to these non-profit institutions.  The Ivy's have large cap company endownments and spend a minor  fraction of what they've taken in and/or earned over the years.  Many colleges have flown under the radar, but not even hit the tax exemption minimum of 5%.  You could also make the case that schools in brackets effectively collude on pricing.  It's the only system where higher prices somehow reflect on better education (in perception).  It'll be interesting if the private loan market remains shut down and stafford changes how schools are going to handle their pricing.    

Never happen.  The government is the one guilty of driving up the price of education through federal loan and grant programs direct to students, the funding that goes to the school itself, and the GI Bill, which made it possible for the schools to have guaranteed income on the sweat and blood of vets.  As The Rev ranted about earlier, the government doled out easy credit for schools through Pell, Perkins, etc., just as it did with housing through Fannie and Freddie.  Easy credit means that people who have no business taking out those loans take them...and take too many loans and for too much money.  Too much money floating around from anxious students thinking that if they drop $30K a year that they'll end up with a corner office after graduation, and schools will jack their prices way up.  The schools jack up their prices, and the government has to increase how much they will lend, which means that the school can jack the price up again the next year.  Both the government and the school benefit from it.  The only ones who get hurt are the students.  Those who pay out of pocket get hurt because they pay an exorbitant amount here and now, money possibly that would have earned more on the stock market than their salary to date.  Those student who borrow get hurt because they are saddled with life-long debt, money that is essentially a tax on their gullibility, and it robs them of future productivity.

The Rev still this this chick is the female version of a d-bag for suing her school, though.

[PBR...]

Rev-

I appreciate your rant about education...I agree with you for the most part and to be quite honest, you have me rethinking a few things.

Universities are driving up tuition because they can is kind of BS.  The market has dictated that anyone who wants to do anything will probably need a decent college name on their resume and Universities have taken full advantage of that by increasing tuition and their "avg starting salaries".  Are those really average?...or just the average of the students with sweet jobs that responded?

I disagree with your point about paying too much for too little.  I think it also has to do with kids that for the most part had a lot handed to them.  In my mind, once you get your name on a diploma and walked the walk, now it's the skill of the individual to "talk the talk".  So, to recap, are people paying too much for degrees?  Yes....  Do companies just give out corner offices and 75G's because you have "Dickenson" written across the top of your diploma, NO

I learned more in our group projects, playing football and during summer internships than I did in the classroom.

u r correct about that reg...1 summer pbr's grandfather and pbr built a house from the ground up just the 2 of us. my grandfather owned a construction company and he and pop pbr thought it would be a solid learning experience building a house from the ground up. pbr learned time estimates, cost estimates, dealing w/ zoning boards,  how to built a house foundation, frame a house, plumb, electric, etc....we built the house together just the 2 of us, pbr still puts those lessons to use today. pbr could still build a house today from the ground up. BOTTOM LINE: pbr learned more in that 1 summer in real experience than in 4 years of college. internships when done right are invaluable. pbr doesnt mean standing at the xerox machine 8 hours a day and trying to hook up w/ other interns but actually put effort into learning as some kids dont want to work and just do what is easiest not put in extra effort and try to learn...


EDIT: btw +k to the board good discussion and offset any snipers

[pumkinattack]

Rev,

 I agree with all that as far as the government's involvement except the GI Bill.  I left Hobart with the belief there should be no government spending, but I don't have a problem lumping the GI Bill in as a cost of defense (anyone who's ever served active duty is severely underpaid and probably true of those who serve during non-conflict times, but I don't honestly know what they do other than run really early in the morning and shine their boots in peace times).  

 You and PBR carry the same idea as myself, I think, that many kids should go into trade schools.  I recall the Journal having an op-ed piece arguing that there should be a new system to replace the BA for many kids because the idea that the BA has turned into a vocational symbol/signal to employers is retarded.  Trade skills are probably more valuable to many.  

 I could make the same case for B-school since the last year or so has been a disaster for me, but I was lucky enough (having finished in 2005) to have two good years and cover most of my costs of the degree (still carry between $5 - $10k, but could pay it off except I prefer the increased liquidity and can carry it no problem now).  I went to B-school to do something in banking/finance and because the liberal arts degree may have made me a better thinker than an undergrad b-school kid, but everyone was looking for specific coursework in finance and accounting (which Hobart doesn't even offer).  I think kids coming out of even a top 10 - 20 b-school (think texas, g'town type schools) are going to be hurting to justify their grad school endeavors if they graduate between 2007 and 2011.  At least business schools kind of admit they're not about the academic experience.  

[PBR...]

u know maybe this 27 year old college graduate should take this life lesson from this blog post by jay paterno(co-off. coordinator at psu)...here is someone same age as her who doesnt wait for freebies and hand outs....this girl should see someone like this and learn...

Saturday was the 3rd Annual Penn State Football Letterman's Golf Outing and 128 former Penn State Football players took part. Student-Athletes from teams in the 1950s all the way through the current decade gathered for golf, but more importantly to catch up with former teammates and to meet other people who share a proud tradition.

Gathered were people who have gone on to do different things with their lives, some as doctors, others working on wall street, others as teachers, others coaching, and others as lawyers?just to name a few.

At the dinner following the Penn State Football Letterman's Golf Outing, Justin Kurpeikis got up to introduce a very special former Penn State Nittany Lion. It would turn out to be a moment that none of us there will ever forget.

He introduced one of his teammates Rick Slater. Most Penn State fans will not recall his name, number or what position he played but they should know his name for what he's done since college.

Rick's path to becoming a Penn State Football student-athlete was an unconventional one. He graduated from high school in Flint, Michigan in 1988. Before coming to Penn State, he served 8 years in the military, primarily as a Navy Seal. He enrolled at Penn State in 1997 and decided to try and walk-on to the football team at the tender age of 28 years old.

He made the team, and although he didn't see a lot of game action he made lasting impression on all of us. He became a great influence on a lot for younger players who looked up to him once they knew this "old" guy's story.

When I'd walk through the locker room, Lavar Arrington, Brandon Short, Justin Kurpeikis and other guys who were big-time players for us would be gathered around his locker listening to him tell stories. I remember hearing one about a monkey in Panama who refused to get out of Rick's jeep.

In the summer work-outs the toughest part of the running is the phase when our guys finish by running twelve 300 yard sprints. To accommodate the team they used to have three running groups, one at 6 a.m., one at 7 a.m. and one at 8 a.m. Rick would show up at 6 a.m. and make all the times for the 300 yard sprints. Then he'd stick around and do it again and again passing the times for ALL thirty-six 300 yard sprints.

Through that, he earned the respect of his teammates, but also in so many other ways.

He became the oldest college football player in the country during the 1999 season when he started camp as a 30-year old junior.

In his senior year an injury ended his football career, but he went out for the boxing team. All he did was go out and win the National Championship in his weight class.

As Justin Kurpeikis introduced him, he explained that after college Rick was going on with his life until September 11, 2001. The terrorist attacks on this country changed the course of Rick's life. Rick knew what he had to do he re-enlisted as a Navy Seal.

By the time he stood up to speak to the group assembled last night, he had completed a total of 5 tours in Iraq and Afghanistan and will be heading back again. But even those facts aren't what hit us all.

It was what Rick said to all of us.

"The fact that we all played for Penn State and for Joe Paterno, in my mind, makes us all brothers. My time on this team is among the most meaningful things I've ever done in my life. We are all better men for having played for Joe Paterno and these coaches."

Then he pointed to the belt he was wearing, and we all recognized it as a belt you would wear in your football pants.

"This belt I'm wearing, is the belt I wore in my football pants on Saturdays at Penn State. I wear it today, but this belt has also been with me ever since I left here. It's been with me when I jumped out of airplanes at 25,000 feet on oxygen at night, it has been on all my missions. I wear it for all the guys who played at Penn State all the guys who played before me and all the guys who will play after me."

Needless to say it was completely silent as he spoke those words. It was a recognition that we are all part of something special, something that will always be a part of us no matter what we do or where we go. It was the recognition that here was an example of someone who even in the midst of war, has a part of Penn State Football and what he learned here with him.

Most important it was a reminder to us all that while we live our lives in this country lives of relative safety and enormous freedoms, there are still those putting it all on the line for us every day.

[lewdogg11]

Sorry PBR, posts that are too long get quickly passed over by ADD LD11...

[Regulator]

RE: Trade School

I partially agree with sending young adults to trade school as opposed to college in moderation.  These are the kids that know what they want to do.  Want nothing else in life than to do this trade and will be happy doing this trade forever. (I have dismissed the possibility of "retirement" as we see it today, I think it will pretty much be work until you can't work anymore)
The part I agree with you on is that there are so many people being funneled through college with business degrees that it is really difficult to differentiate yourself.  I mean....how many chiefs do you really need to run an organization?

With that being said, most of the "valuable stuff" that I took away from college was when I wasn't learning about Stats, Calc or Ghanian Drumming. 

Right or no?

[PBR...]

Sorry PBR, posts that are too long get quickly passed over by ADD LD11...

btw colorado state univ. (the top 'cane predicting center) just reduced their forecast even further for any 'canes hitting the u.s. this year...they are thinking maybe 2 now...been a lame year for canes its 1 of the things pbr looks forward to see that large swell peeling for the beaches and pulling out the shortboard and tearing it up

[PBR...]

RE: Trade School

I partially agree with sending young adults to trade school as opposed to college in moderation.  These are the kids that know what they want to do.  Want nothing else in life than to do this trade and will be happy doing this trade forever. (I have dismissed the possibility of "retirement" as we see it today, I think it will pretty much be work until you can't work anymore)
The part I agree with you on is that there are so many people being funneled through college with business degrees that it is really difficult to differentiate yourself.  I mean....how many chiefs do you really need to run an organization?

With that being said, most of the "valuable stuff" that I took away from college was when I wasn't learning about Stats, Calc or Ghanian Drumming. 

Right or no?

BOL...nice ghanian drumming...reminds pbr of the time our college music class (required curriculum) went to the phila. orchestra to watch/listen to a dress rehearsal...by the time the concert was over more than 1/2 the students were sound asleep in their chairs...

[pumkinattack]

Yeah, I definitely learned more in my philosophy courses or my second major, European Studies (try to define that).  Even the economics was largely the "softer side", aside from a couple of stats/econometrics classes (those were pretty valuable I have to admit, learning a lot about the errors in statistical analysis).  

This is why I loved my education at Hobart.  I saw something Gro did a long time ago about him rolling up in a pimped out ride getting his gas from a Cortland grad and so on and some reference to a social worker Hobart grad that was pretty funny, but I'm a big believer in liberal arts educations.  

I know a bunch of guys who went to the McEntire (sp?) School of Commerce, UVA's undergrad business school.  You'd think a kid who went through UVA is pretty smart, but they're useless as anything other than Indians even though they think they'll be chiefs someday (which is part of the reason they'll likely be Indians they're entire lives).  They'll work hard for you though.  

[dlippiel]

+k to the last two pages for very interesting and informational discussions. dlippiel wasted his $ on the Globe this am when all he had to do for good news and info is read the LLPP. dlippiel should have known better.

[pumkinattack]

For real news you need to get the NY Post.  Best read of anything on print in the world. 

Any football news lately?  Does RPI have anyone coming in to justify that ego stroking facility (that I'm envious of) that was just built?