FB: Liberty League

[union89]

LLPPFFL seems to be a bit F'd up.....the Fornicators are playing Acrotophiliac's for the 2nd straight week.

Not really a big deal, but if U89 loses to that jackazz AJ two straight weeks, he may have to jump out a window.

['gro]

LLPPFFL seems to be a bit F'd up.....the Fornicators are playing Acrotophiliac's for the 2nd straight week.

Not really a big deal, but if U89 loses to that jackazz AJ two straight weeks, he may have to jump out a window.

Just noticed that. Might have something to do with the divisions and the rivalry week was hand picked.

[pumkinattack]

Wow, sorry for carrying on a conversation with myself last night.  Actually don't remember doing it, but I do see a bag of cheetos, an empty container formerly housing cake and an empty bag of candy corn in my kitchen and I'm sure it wasn't my wife who ate all that (maybe the dogs?). 

I guess now that Bart is out of it, the LL does look interesting this year.  Union better beat SUS.  We can't let some school leave for another region (how crazy is that, a school switching leagues and changing region) with the league title.

Anyways, I'm envisioning a day of football, fried food w/hot sauce, tons of water and some muscle atrophy from not leaving the couch for 10 hours.   

[Frank Rossi]

Just got back from the GT/VT game (GT's GT's homecoming amazingly), which was fun as hell, considering they just dropped top five VT.  Have to say, I'll root for Union vs. Anyone in the playoffs, but the LL is kind of like jockeying for the.best seat on the little yellow bus this year.  Odds are pretty good that the ceiling the the second round of the NCAA's.  I actually feel worse for Alfred who's been knocking on the door for a few years and may ne the best in the East this year, but its such a weak year in the East that its just not the same.  GO JACKETS!!!!!!!

If it gets any worse for the LL champion record-wise, they may have a hard ceiling of the first round, as in a trip to Alliance, Ohio.  ( I think this could only happen if Union were to lose to Salisbury or if Susq somehow ended up the champion)

Unless the LL Champ has 3 losses, they will not be the #8 seed.  There's just no precedent for pushing a conference champion that low without that poor of a record.

Then who would go in that coveted 8th spot?  

To back up U89's point -- It's likely more than one team will have to rotate into the "East" bracket (which, remember, isn't the name of the bracket anymore based on the ditching of strict geography for the brackets earlier this decade).  There is a likelihood that there will be way too many teams in the "South" or "North" to fit the brackets there, even with Mount Union coming to the "East."  Generally, in the old days of this style of bracketing, you would see teams with lower records rotated since the Committee didn't appear to want to reward such teams at the expense of teams with better records in the same region.  So, it is likely that a 3-loss team from the "North" Region might be shifted into the "East" to face Mount Union in the first round if things were to pan out this way right now.

The point is this:  don't look at brackets as geographically structured anymore.  And don't assume that only the good teams are rotated, since Mount Union's rotation has been more the exception than the rule.

- Frank

[union89]

Wow, sorry for carrying on a conversation with myself last night.  Actually don't remember doing it, but I do see a bag of cheetos, an empty container formerly housing cake and an empty bag of candy corn in my kitchen and I'm sure it wasn't my wife who ate all that (maybe the dogs?). 

I guess now that Bart is out of it, the LL does look interesting this year.  Union better beat SUS.  We can't let some school leave for another region (how crazy is that, a school switching leagues and changing region) with the league title.

Anyways, I'm envisioning a day of football, fried food w/hot sauce, tons of water and some muscle atrophy from not leaving the couch for 10 hours.   

Your boy the Rev is pulling for Susquehanna to win the LL....you should have a word with that boy....

[pumkinattack]

I kind of think I need him to pray for my soul right now. 

This playoff thing will figure itself out, but unless there's a 3 loss AQ, they won't be an 8 seed.  Hell, look at Lyco last year, they weren't an 8 seed at 7-3.  I was pretty disappointed that they imported Randolph Macon to set the matchup with MUC in the first round.  It's clear that there's more subjectivity and control over the process than I had previously realized.  I thought this system was supposed to remove a lot of that, but it clearly hasn't.  This 1 seed hasn't played itself out too.  UMHB might've lost they're #1 seed (should), I don't know how Wesley gets a #1 (though they may be deserving) with what, five DIII games (which sucks for them, but it means there isn't a lot to judge by there).  This Wabash loss may have SOS ripple effects in the North, so who knows.  We're back at UWW and MUC being locked in as #1 seeds and then a guessing game.   

[pg04]

Just got back from the GT/VT game (GT's GT's homecoming amazingly), which was fun as hell, considering they just dropped top five VT.  Have to say, I'll root for Union vs. Anyone in the playoffs, but the LL is kind of like jockeying for the.best seat on the little yellow bus this year.  Odds are pretty good that the ceiling the the second round of the NCAA's.  I actually feel worse for Alfred who's been knocking on the door for a few years and may ne the best in the East this year, but its such a weak year in the East that its just not the same.  GO JACKETS!!!!!!!

If it gets any worse for the LL champion record-wise, they may have a hard ceiling of the first round, as in a trip to Alliance, Ohio.  ( I think this could only happen if Union were to lose to Salisbury or if Susq somehow ended up the champion)

Unless the LL Champ has 3 losses, they will not be the #8 seed.  There's just no precedent for pushing a conference champion that low without that poor of a record.

Then who would go in that coveted 8th spot? 

Wait for the seeds.....as Frank said, the LL Champ could have 3 losses and in that case maybe be a #8 seed.  The # 8 could go anywhere at this point....at this point for you to ask, "if the LL Champ is not the #8 seed...then who"...is ridiculously short sighted.

PG, you talk about how bad it is for the LL, 'record wise'....Union is 5-1.  I may b1tch and moan about how they have gotten to 5-1, but you can't scoff at a 5-1 record.

I can scoff If I'd like.   

[pg04]

By the way, I didn't mean to imply "If The LL champ isn't the 8 seed then who is"  I meant to say, if we are saying that they aren't, which teams are available.  Obviously as Frank stated it's too early for this, and an external team may end up there, but I'm just trying to figure out in my mind. 

[pumkinattack]

I'm sorrry in advance for bringing this in, but I'm watching This Week (a favorite show of mine) and the roundtable is referring to a movement within the Republican party know at "the Teabaggers"?  Is this a joke or some kind of new strategy for dealing with their opponents?

[maxpower]

All Max will say is that it is real.

[TheGrove]

Ouch @ the Susquehanna hate... am I going to get karma sniped for being the lone Crusader in here? ;-)

Personally, I'd rather stay in the LL.

[redswarm81]

The point is this:  don't look at brackets as geographically structured anymore.  And don't assume that only the good teams are rotated, since Mount Union's rotation has been more the exception than the rule.

- Frank

This playoff thing will figure itself out, but unless there's a 3 loss AQ, they won't be an 8 seed.  Hell, look at Lyco last year, they weren't an 8 seed at 7-3.  I was pretty disappointed that they imported Randolph Macon to set the matchup with MUC in the first round.  It's clear that there's more subjectivity and control over the process than I had previously realized.  I thought this system was supposed to remove a lot of that, but it clearly hasn't.  This 1 seed [issue] hasn't played itself out too.  UMHB might've lost they're #1 seed (should), I don't know how Wesley gets a #1 (though they may be deserving) with what, five DIII games (which sucks for them, but it means there isn't a lot to judge by there).  This Wabash loss may have SOS ripple effects in the North, so who knows.  We're back at UWW and MUC being locked in as #1 seeds and then a guessing game.   

It's not polite to say that the playoff seeding process involves subjectivity, no matter how obvious the subjectivity might be.

Frank, I take your point, but I can't completely reconcile it with practical reality, for two big reasons.  First, the selection and seeding committees are required to select and seed playoff teams using only the selection and seeding criteria (which are nearly identical).  Those criteria are almost entirely limited to in-Region stats, which are objective.*  There are a few secondary criteria that include non-Region considerations, but in any group of playoff-eligible teams who are being evaluated by the criteria, it's highly likely that most if not all of those teams have no non-Region games.  (This makes sense, when you consider that the NCAA actively encourages Regional competition, and--if only by implication--discourages non-Regional competition.)

Second, the 500 mile travel limitation forces the playoffs to be geographically structured to such a large extent that it's impractical, if not impossible, to structure them non-geographically.  Yes, there are ways to play with the structure, and the Committee has done so in the past, with such things as the "Texas sub-bracket" and last year's MUC-Randolph Macon "exportation" out of region, but for the most part, the playoff structure will necessarily remain much more geographically based than non-geographically based.

Given that the NCAA (properly, IMO) encourages Regional competition, I think that's a good thing.

* There is plenty of room for subjectivity in deciding how to apply the selection and seeding criteria, however.  For instance, in-region winning percentage and opponents' winning percentage are both primary selection and seeding criteria.  The committee has the latitude to apply whatever priority they wish to those two objective statistics.  Thus, for example a NEFC team with a 1.000 winning percentage and a .500 OWP could find itself seeded behind an E8 team with a .750 winning percentage and a .600 OWP, if the seeding committee were to determine subjectively that between the two teams (NEFC and E8), the OWP statistic deserved higher priority than the winning percentage statistic.

[redswarm81]

Ouch @ the Susquehanna hate... am I going to get karma sniped for being the lone Crusader in here? ;-)

Personally, I'd rather stay in the LL.

Feel the hate, young Jedi.  Use the hate, and fulfill your destiny.  Kill your Liberty League opponents and flee.

[pumkinattack]

Grove,

  Gave you a plus K.  I like having you around, but the core LL has a history long before the LL's inception, so we welcome you in, but hope you'll stay long term.  If not, don't take our title with you.  Keep Nate Milne around.  That kid will be valuable for a long time if he stays. 

[redswarm81]

I'm sorrry in advance for bringing this in, but I'm watching This Week (a favorite show of mine) and the roundtable is referring to a movement within the Republican party know at "the Teabaggers"?  Is this a joke or some kind of new strategy for dealing with their opponents?

Boy, have you ever not been paying attention.  To a large extent, I envy you.

Are any NEFC teams nicknamed "The Patriots" or "The Minutemen?"  It seems highly relevant, since the original Boston Tea Party occurred in what is now NEFC territory.  I seem to recall some controversy a while back over a team or teams being nicknamed "Minutemen."

I still like the modern, Politically Correct team nickname "The Engines."  Engines are powerful, and they play a big role in the development of the country, especially steam engines, so it's an appropriate and fitting team nickname.  Fans can cheer on their team by chanting "Engines, Engines, Engines," and they can mimic the sound of a locomotive's steam engine whistle by shouting "woo-woo-woo-woo!"  They can also move their arms up, forward, and down, to mimic the movement of the rocker arms on locomotives that are driven by those mighty steam engines.  Try it yourself--"Engines, Engines, woo-woo-woo-woo! Engines, Engines, Engines, woo-woo-woo-woo!"