FB: Liberty League

[Pat Coleman]

Because they still get into the field and have to eventually prove themselves against someone out of region in order to win the title.

[lewdogg11]

Because no matter when they play whom, 32 teams get a crack at winning the National Championship.  Are the best 4 teams ALWAYS in the the final 4?  No.  Are the best 2 teams ALWAYS in the final 2?  No.  Does the best team usually win?  Yes.

Why is 32 teams, cramming meaningful games in over a couple of weeks at the end of the season better than the FBS system where they play meaningful games throughout the season?

And, more importantly, does the best team have an opportunity to play for the title?

In D-III this is undoubtedly the case. In the BCS ... well, you know the rest.

Why is that "undoubtedly" the case?  If the NCAA and the schools won't spring for inter-regional competition, how do we know?  How is that any more exact than the BCS?

Because the BCS is an equation and a theory.  Truth is, 4-6 teams were qualified to play in the National Championship in D1 last year.  2 got the chance.  It looks like things might be similar this year.

[Frank Rossi]

Were NC State and Villanova the best teams in the country the years they won the NCAA D1 Basketball Championship?  Probably not.  However, both teams were forced to play six games against teams they probably would not have personally scheduled on a national stage.  They won those six games.  Nobody else did.  That at least lends some credibility to the structures of the tournaments in the various sports.  One game does not lend much credibility to the championship at the end of the day.

[lewdogg11]

Were NC State and Villanova the best teams in the country the years they won the NCAA D1 Basketball Championship?  Probably not.  However, both teams were forced to play six games against teams they probably would not have personally scheduled on a national stage.  They won those six games.  Nobody else did.  That at least lends some credibility to the structures of the tournaments in the various sports.  One game does not lend much credibility to the championship at the end of the day.

They may not have been the 'best' teams throughout the year, but they were most certainly the best teams at the end of the year.

[Knightstalker]

Were NC State and Villanova the best teams in the country the years they won the NCAA D1 Basketball Championship?  Probably not.  However, both teams were forced to play six games against teams they probably would not have personally scheduled on a national stage.  They won those six games.  Nobody else did.  That at least lends some credibility to the structures of the tournaments in the various sports.  One game does not lend much credibility to the championship at the end of the day.

They may not have been the 'best' teams throughout the year, but they were most certainly the best teams at the end of the year.

Excellent points +k for the page.  In football I think DIII usually gets two of the top 4 teams into the final four.  In basketball it is a little different, but you usually get at least 2 or 3 of the top 8 teams into a final four. 

[JQV]

Were NC State and Villanova the best teams in the country the years they won the NCAA D1 Basketball Championship?  Probably not.  However, both teams were forced to play six games against teams they probably would not have personally scheduled on a national stage.  They won those six games.  Nobody else did.  That at least lends some credibility to the structures of the tournaments in the various sports.  One game does not lend much credibility to the championship at the end of the day.

They won a tournament that got 64 teams in and scheduled opponents without reference to expense.

That is not what happens in D3

[Frank Rossi]

For as much as I've been vocal about prior missteps by the Union Athletics Department the last couple years for a variety of issues, I believe in equity in discussions.  Thus, I wanted to highlight two great moves by the Department from this week.

First, I applaud Union for putting in their entry for ECAC Bowl consideration this morning.  Last year, there were rumors that such a move would not occur -- and we've seen that Hobart and other LL schools may not be filing for consideration.  It's a refreshing thing that Union is putting its money where its mouth is to reward their student-athletes with an opportunity for another game, be it ECACs or NCAAs.

Second, as of this morning, Union will be making the trip to USMMA this weekend an overnight trip.  The trip was originally planned to be a day trip.  However, many teams that have day tripped this year to long distance games have come out flat early.  This is a great idea to try to give Union every opportunity to come out strong against USMMA and to help prepare for any potential playoff road trip they would have in a couple weeks if they win the next two games.  Overnight stays are not cheap, so I personally want to send kudos to the Union Athletic Department for making this decision.


Of course, I'm just a "homer with blinders" -- so what do I know?!

['gro]

Gro loves DI football, hates the BCS and bowl system.

NCAA championships are about inclusion. The BCS, by its very nature, is about exclusion. The BCS should be abolished just on that fact. The rest has been said before, that there are more than 2 teams worthy of playing for a championship each year.

[dlippiel]

Let me be clear about one issue that crept up in a discussion I had with Guru yesterday.  It does not matter if the order of bracketing in the "East" bracket is #7 NEFC Team/#8 Union or #7 Union/#8 NEFC team.  Union is 487.0 miles from Mount Union based on NCAA calculations.  Springfield, Curry and Maine Maritime are all >500 miles and would require a flight.  The NCAA mandates that the Committee minimize First Round flights, meaning that seedings would not control in the Union/NEFC situation.  

Therefore, assuming Mount Union is at the top of the "East" bracket and Union is #7 or #8 with the NEFC team or Springfield sitting in the other position, Union would be sent to Alliance in the First Round.  Just wanted to clarify this for those wondering how this works.

[EDIT:  No slight to Susquehanna on this post.  The same would be true for the Crusaders, assuming the NCAA put them in the "East" bracket.  I focused on Union because of the mileage concern -- Susquehanna is much closer to Alliance, obviously, and this would become an even more erlcome scenario for the Committee based on the geography.]

This makes sense, and honestly dlip is just asking a question here...easy LD, but doesn't this also contradict the seeding/importation process? Here economics/millage/travel restrictions are taken into consideration regarding the seeding or miseeding of a Union or Susquehanna behind an NEFC team. So if they are seeding a team that is most likely better, that won a much more competitive and higher ranked conference isn't this a bit hypocritical to seeding the #4 best teams in the nation and importing one into a regional bracket (dlip's new name for the brackets because even though they are just brackets they are obviously somewhat regional)? Honestly dlip has given up and doesn't even give a **** anymore but just wanted to ask the question after some stew tonight.

[lewdogg11]

Let me be clear about one issue that crept up in a discussion I had with Guru yesterday.  It does not matter if the order of bracketing in the "East" bracket is #7 NEFC Team/#8 Union or #7 Union/#8 NEFC team.  Union is 487.0 miles from Mount Union based on NCAA calculations.  Springfield, Curry and Maine Maritime are all >500 miles and would require a flight.  The NCAA mandates that the Committee minimize First Round flights, meaning that seedings would not control in the Union/NEFC situation.  

Therefore, assuming Mount Union is at the top of the "East" bracket and Union is #7 or #8 with the NEFC team or Springfield sitting in the other position, Union would be sent to Alliance in the First Round.  Just wanted to clarify this for those wondering how this works.

[EDIT:  No slight to Susquehanna on this post.  The same would be true for the Crusaders, assuming the NCAA put them in the "East" bracket.  I focused on Union because of the mileage concern -- Susquehanna is much closer to Alliance, obviously, and this would become an even more erlcome scenario for the Committee based on the geography.]

This makes sense, and honestly dlip is just asking a question here...easy LD, but doesn't this also contradict the seeding/importation process? Here economics/millage/travel restrictions are taken into consideration regarding the seeding or miseeding of a Union or Susquehanna behind an NEFC team. So if they are seeding a team that is most likely better, that won a much more competitive and higher ranked conference isn't this a bit hypocritical to seeding the #4 best teams in the nation and importing one into a regional bracket (dlip's new name for the brackets because even though they are just brackets they are obviously somewhat regional)? Honestly dlip has given up and doesn't even give a **** anymore but just wanted to ask the question after some stew tonight.

Look, the NCAA cut the 'East' a break last year by pairing Mount Union with Randolph-Macon int he first round.  If Union gets them this year, they should be honored in my opinion.  The chance to play Mount Union is pretty sweet.

[Jonny Utah]

Let me be clear about one issue that crept up in a discussion I had with Guru yesterday.  It does not matter if the order of bracketing in the "East" bracket is #7 NEFC Team/#8 Union or #7 Union/#8 NEFC team.  Union is 487.0 miles from Mount Union based on NCAA calculations.  Springfield, Curry and Maine Maritime are all >500 miles and would require a flight.  The NCAA mandates that the Committee minimize First Round flights, meaning that seedings would not control in the Union/NEFC situation.  

Therefore, assuming Mount Union is at the top of the "East" bracket and Union is #7 or #8 with the NEFC team or Springfield sitting in the other position, Union would be sent to Alliance in the First Round.  Just wanted to clarify this for those wondering how this works.

[EDIT:  No slight to Susquehanna on this post.  The same would be true for the Crusaders, assuming the NCAA put them in the "East" bracket.  I focused on Union because of the mileage concern -- Susquehanna is much closer to Alliance, obviously, and this would become an even more erlcome scenario for the Committee based on the geography.]

This makes sense, and honestly dlip is just asking a question here...easy LD, but doesn't this also contradict the seeding/importation process? Here economics/millage/travel restrictions are taken into consideration regarding the seeding or miseeding of a Union or Susquehanna behind an NEFC team. So if they are seeding a team that is most likely better, that won a much more competitive and higher ranked conference isn't this a bit hypocritical to seeding the #4 best teams in the nation and importing one into a regional bracket (dlip's new name for the brackets because even though they are just brackets they are obviously somewhat regional)? Honestly dlip has given up and doesn't even give a **** anymore but just wanted to ask the question after some stew tonight.

Getting seeds #1-8 right is more important than getting seeds #25-32 right.  I think thats what that comes down to.  Mileage is more important than bottom seds.

[union89]

Let me be clear about one issue that crept up in a discussion I had with Guru yesterday.  It does not matter if the order of bracketing in the "East" bracket is #7 NEFC Team/#8 Union or #7 Union/#8 NEFC team.  Union is 487.0 miles from Mount Union based on NCAA calculations.  Springfield, Curry and Maine Maritime are all >500 miles and would require a flight.  The NCAA mandates that the Committee minimize First Round flights, meaning that seedings would not control in the Union/NEFC situation.  

Therefore, assuming Mount Union is at the top of the "East" bracket and Union is #7 or #8 with the NEFC team or Springfield sitting in the other position, Union would be sent to Alliance in the First Round.  Just wanted to clarify this for those wondering how this works.

[EDIT:  No slight to Susquehanna on this post.  The same would be true for the Crusaders, assuming the NCAA put them in the "East" bracket.  I focused on Union because of the mileage concern -- Susquehanna is much closer to Alliance, obviously, and this would become an even more erlcome scenario for the Committee based on the geography.]

This makes sense, and honestly dlip is just asking a question here...easy LD, but doesn't this also contradict the seeding/importation process? Here economics/millage/travel restrictions are taken into consideration regarding the seeding or miseeding of a Union or Susquehanna behind an NEFC team. So if they are seeding a team that is most likely better, that won a much more competitive and higher ranked conference isn't this a bit hypocritical to seeding the #4 best teams in the nation and importing one into a regional bracket (dlip's new name for the brackets because even though they are just brackets they are obviously somewhat regional)? Honestly dlip has given up and doesn't even give a **** anymore but just wanted to ask the question after some stew tonight.

U89 sees your point, but look what happens almost yearly down in Texas.  Mary Hardin-Baylor, Trinity or Hardin-Simmos end up being seeded between 1-4 in the their bracket.  The Texas teams, regardless of seed, end up having to play each other in the 1st Round due to travel restrictions.  Now that sucks, but is a similar situation to MUC vs. LL/NEFC.

I would love for Union to have the opportunity to play a team like MUC in Round 1.

[Jonny Utah]

Because no matter when they play whom, 32 teams get a crack at winning the National Championship.  Are the best 4 teams ALWAYS in the the final 4?  No.  Are the best 2 teams ALWAYS in the final 2?  No.  Does the best team usually win?  Yes.

Why is 32 teams, cramming meaningful games in over a couple of weeks at the end of the season better than the FBS system where they play meaningful games throughout the season?

And, more importantly, does the best team have an opportunity to play for the title?

In D-III this is undoubtedly the case. In the BCS ... well, you know the rest.

Why is that "undoubtedly" the case?  If the NCAA and the schools won't spring for inter-regional competition, how do we know?  How is that any more exact than the BCS?

Because you know what games are important or not.  Florida played Georgia last weekend.  That was a big game and I enjoyed watching it.  But I had no idea if the game really meant anything.  Because if Florida had lost, we really don't know if that puts them out of the top 2 teams at the end of the season.

Hey, I love watching big d1 games, but I have to agree that a 16 team d1 playoff would be the balls.

(sorry couldnt isolate that quote)

[union89]

The East Regional Rankings seem to show the belief that the LL is way down in '09.

[Doid23]

.  If Union gets them this year, they should be honored in my opinion.  The chance to play Mount Union is pretty sweet.

Masochistic, yes, but I agree, it would be pretty cool. Kind of like it was cool for Angola to play the Dream Team, I just hope none of the Dutchmen ask the MUC kids for autographs...