FB: Liberty League

[maxpower]

damn, frank just called me on it before i did it. oh well.

[JQV]

That said, it's a little tough to compare a six-team conference with an eight-team conference since determining where direct comparisons should be made is pretty tough right now.  My point to Terd is that placing the LL that far below the E8 is pretty questionable since head-to-head and common opponent results were inconclusive all season.

Good point Frank.  Comparing the conferences is confusing.  I suppose the only relevant evidence then is the first part of the first half in Susquehana's playoff game.

[Frank Rossi]

That said, it's a little tough to compare a six-team conference with an eight-team conference since determining where direct comparisons should be made is pretty tough right now.  My point to Terd is that placing the LL that far below the E8 is pretty questionable since head-to-head and common opponent results were inconclusive all season.

Good point Frank.  Comparing the conferences is confusing.  I suppose the only relevant evidence then is the first part of the first half in Susquehana's playoff game.

I don't think my comment was aimed at MAC vs. LL strength there, JQV.  Counselor, you should know better than to rely on syllogisms in this situation.  Care to withdraw that last insinuation?

[dlippiel]

When looking at the LL and E8 it is very difficult to compare yet dlip feels it is a good topic because they are really kind of rival conferences. SJF got somewhat vibrated by a down Salisbury but really seemed to come on strong at the end of the season. Union almost beat the Gulls on the road after playing (aside from the Mulhenburg game) the worst half of football in 09. Honestly dlip would really put the LL and E8 on almost equal footing with both being a bit down in regards to their usual strength. dlip always supports Alfred but was quite pissed and let down by their result against Albright. Obviously the Susquehanna game against Del Val was ****ing piss poor for an LL champion and the result really hurt dlip as an LL fan. Who the **** knows??? Maybe later when dlip is feeling a bit more on point he can add something worth while to this discussion.

[Frank Rossi]

When looking at the LL and E8 it is very difficult to compare yet dlip feels it is a good topic because they are really kind of rival conferences. SJF got somewhat vibrated by a down Salisbury but really seemed to come on strong at the end of the season. Union almost beat the Gulls on the road after playing (aside from the Mulhenburg game) the worst half of football in 09. Honestly dlip would really put the LL and E8 on almost equal footing with both being a bit down in regards to their usual strength. dlip always supports Alfred but was quite pissed and let down by their result against Albright. Obviously the Susquehanna game against Del Val was ****ing piss poor for an LL champion and the result really hurt dlip as an LL fan. Who the **** knows??? Maybe later when dlip is feeling a bit more on point he can add something worth while to this discussion.

Dlip, you pretty much summed up my view of the world, with a couple small exceptions.  Yes, I believe the LL and E8 WERE a bit down this year.  However, I also believe that the MAC was a lot up this year.  That gave the appearance of a big jump between the E8/LL and the MAC in the East. 

Between the LL and E8, I believe it was a draw this year.  Being a draw, I give a slight nod overall to a conference with 8 teams over a conference with 6 teams when you look at the idea that, put simply, there were more losses to be distributed among LL teams than there were for E8 teams -- E8 OOC schedules had a lot more fluff this year than in normal years because of the need for so many OOC games.  If the OOC games scheduled had been much stronger across the board, I'd reconsider that slight nod.  However, as I said, I do think both were slightly lower than last year based on relative strength.  The LL's loss of Susquehanna obviously hurts -- so if I had to compare LL vs. E8 heading into 2010, I'd swap positions based on that loss.

[dlippiel]

However, I also believe that the MAC was a lot up this year.

+k for being right on with this statement. dlip recalls early in the season when Leb Val, Del Val (even after the loss to Wesley), and Albright seemed hot, some, myself included, hesitated to recognize the strength of this conference and wanted to wait and see how things played out. Well they played out and hats of to the MAC and its top three teams.

[lewdogg11]

However, I also believe that the MAC was a lot up this year.

+k for being right on with this statement. dlip recalls early in the season when Leb Val, Del Val (even after the loss to Wesley), and Albright seemed hot, some, myself included, hesitated to recognize the strength of this conference and wanted to wait and see how things played out. Well they played out and hats of to the MAC and its top three teams.

Why do I say the E8 is much more up on the LL this year?  Because it is my belief that if you combined the 2 conferences, Alfred, St. John Fisher, and Springfield would probably come in 1 - 2 - 3.  And MAYBE Ithaca would even take 4th...I think Hartwick was garbage this year so Union beating them doesn't make my nads perk up.  I think the Super Conference standings would have gone down like this:

1.  Alfred
2.  Springfield
3.  St. John Fisher
4.  Susquehanna
5.  Ithaca
6.  Union
7.  Hobart
8.  Hartwick
9.  Rochester
10.  RPI
11.  MMA
12.  St. Lawrence
13.  WPI
14.  Utica

[Frank Rossi]

However, I also believe that the MAC was a lot up this year.

+k for being right on with this statement. dlip recalls early in the season when Leb Val, Del Val (even after the loss to Wesley), and Albright seemed hot, some, myself included, hesitated to recognize the strength of this conference and wanted to wait and see how things played out. Well they played out and hats of to the MAC and its top three teams.

Why do I say the E8 is much more up on the LL this year?  Because it is my belief that if you combined the 2 conferences, Alfred, St. John Fisher, and Springfield would probably come in 1 - 2 - 3.  And MAYBE Ithaca would even take 4th...I think Hartwick was garbage this year so Union beating them doesn't make my nads perk up.  I think the Super Conference standings would have gone down like this:

1.  Alfred
2.  Springfield
3.  St. John Fisher
4.  Susquehanna
5.  Ithaca
6.  Union
7.  Hobart
8.  Hartwick
9.  Rochester
10.  RPI
11.  MMA
12.  St. Lawrence
13.  WPI
14.  Utica

Based on...?

[Edit:  And you're being a little inconsistent about Hartwick... Garbage that comes in at the middle slots?  Which is it?]

[lewdogg11]

However, I also believe that the MAC was a lot up this year.

+k for being right on with this statement. dlip recalls early in the season when Leb Val, Del Val (even after the loss to Wesley), and Albright seemed hot, some, myself included, hesitated to recognize the strength of this conference and wanted to wait and see how things played out. Well they played out and hats of to the MAC and its top three teams.

Why do I say the E8 is much more up on the LL this year?  Because it is my belief that if you combined the 2 conferences, Alfred, St. John Fisher, and Springfield would probably come in 1 - 2 - 3.  And MAYBE Ithaca would even take 4th...I think Hartwick was garbage this year so Union beating them doesn't make my nads perk up.  I think the Super Conference standings would have gone down like this:

1.  Alfred
2.  Springfield
3.  St. John Fisher
4.  Susquehanna
5.  Ithaca
6.  Union
7.  Hobart
8.  Hartwick
9.  Rochester
10.  RPI
11.  MMA
12.  St. Lawrence
13.  WPI
14.  Utica

Based on...?

Science

[Frank Rossi]

However, I also believe that the MAC was a lot up this year.

+k for being right on with this statement. dlip recalls early in the season when Leb Val, Del Val (even after the loss to Wesley), and Albright seemed hot, some, myself included, hesitated to recognize the strength of this conference and wanted to wait and see how things played out. Well they played out and hats of to the MAC and its top three teams.

Why do I say the E8 is much more up on the LL this year?  Because it is my belief that if you combined the 2 conferences, Alfred, St. John Fisher, and Springfield would probably come in 1 - 2 - 3.  And MAYBE Ithaca would even take 4th...I think Hartwick was garbage this year so Union beating them doesn't make my nads perk up.  I think the Super Conference standings would have gone down like this:

1.  Alfred
2.  Springfield
3.  St. John Fisher
4.  Susquehanna
5.  Ithaca
6.  Union
7.  Hobart
8.  Hartwick
9.  Rochester
10.  RPI
11.  MMA
12.  St. Lawrence
13.  WPI
14.  Utica

Based on...?

Science

Interesting science since Union beat Ithaca head to head.

[lewdogg11]

However, I also believe that the MAC was a lot up this year.

+k for being right on with this statement. dlip recalls early in the season when Leb Val, Del Val (even after the loss to Wesley), and Albright seemed hot, some, myself included, hesitated to recognize the strength of this conference and wanted to wait and see how things played out. Well they played out and hats of to the MAC and its top three teams.

Why do I say the E8 is much more up on the LL this year?  Because it is my belief that if you combined the 2 conferences, Alfred, St. John Fisher, and Springfield would probably come in 1 - 2 - 3.  And MAYBE Ithaca would even take 4th...I think Hartwick was garbage this year so Union beating them doesn't make my nads perk up.  I think the Super Conference standings would have gone down like this:

1.  Alfred
2.  Springfield
3.  St. John Fisher
4.  Susquehanna
5.  Ithaca
6.  Union
7.  Hobart
8.  Hartwick
9.  Rochester
10.  RPI
11.  MMA
12.  St. Lawrence
13.  WPI
14.  Utica

Based on...?

Science

Interesting science since Union beat Ithaca head to head.

In the FIRST game of the year(2nd for Ithaca)!  Ithaca beat Alfred and Cortland to end the year while Union lost to Susquehanna and beat a .500 Hartwick team, and beat St. Lawrence in OT!!!

You are impossible to debate with.  A few weeks ago you were telling us to ignore the #'s and told us how great Union was despite their struggles, now it's down to a 3 point win on September 12th? 

[Frank Rossi]

However, I also believe that the MAC was a lot up this year.

+k for being right on with this statement. dlip recalls early in the season when Leb Val, Del Val (even after the loss to Wesley), and Albright seemed hot, some, myself included, hesitated to recognize the strength of this conference and wanted to wait and see how things played out. Well they played out and hats of to the MAC and its top three teams.

Why do I say the E8 is much more up on the LL this year?  Because it is my belief that if you combined the 2 conferences, Alfred, St. John Fisher, and Springfield would probably come in 1 - 2 - 3.  And MAYBE Ithaca would even take 4th...I think Hartwick was garbage this year so Union beating them doesn't make my nads perk up.  I think the Super Conference standings would have gone down like this:

1.  Alfred
2.  Springfield
3.  St. John Fisher
4.  Susquehanna
5.  Ithaca
6.  Union
7.  Hobart
8.  Hartwick
9.  Rochester
10.  RPI
11.  MMA
12.  St. Lawrence
13.  WPI
14.  Utica

Based on...?

Science

Interesting science since Union beat Ithaca head to head.

In the FIRST game of the year(2nd for Ithaca)!  Ithaca beat Alfred and Cortland to end the year while Union lost to Susquehanna and beat a .500 Hartwick team, and beat St. Lawrence in OT!!!

You are impossible to debate with.  A few weeks ago you were telling us to ignore the #'s and told us how great Union was despite their struggles, now it's down to a 3 point win on September 12th? 

No, I'm questioning your science based on a head-to-head showdown.  You're the one impossible to debate with when you're pulling numbers out of thin air without a twinge of logic behind it.  Hartwick is #8, Union is #6 and yet the ECAC game between them proved nothing in a 14-team grouping?  Use that RPI education and explain that a bit.  And explain why you think Springfield and SJF would beat Susquehanna out (if it's based on 66-7 this weekend, try to expand it a bit because you're a bit hypocritical if you're going to base your argument on just one game, too). 

Every time we get into these debates, you do this.  Try actually arguing your position with some logic.  I respect that a hell of a lot more than hearing, "Here is my edict, now live with it." 

Just sayin'...

[lewdogg11]

Here is my edict, now live with it.

It is the unfortunate truth.

(I don't have time to crunch #'s, nor is it even worth it.  With scores like MMA 24 Susquehanna 8, we are going to talk ourselves in circles.  Sometimes, you just have to go with what you feel)

[SaintsFAN]

dang pbr getting smoked in the pick 'em d3 brackets...198th place out of what 800+? of course pbr doesnt follow that many other d3 teams out west/south that closely outside of the linfields, uww, muc, mary hardin etc...so some of those games pbr flipped a coin....

pbr... SF is also bad in that thing.... annually.  This year SF sits at 189 after one weekend. 



Did someone mention something about Lewdog mounting something?

[Frank Rossi]

Here is my edict, now live with it.

It is the unfortunate truth.

(I don't have time to crunch #'s, nor is it even worth it.  With scores like MMA 24 Susquehanna 8, we are going to talk ourselves in circles.  Sometimes, you just have to go with what you feel)

Palazzi?