FB: Liberty League

[JT]

Some of you guys are kinda ridiculous on this coaching matter.  If you don't like the guys or the programs that's one thing, but you can't fault these guys for going to greener pastures. 

Case in point, you are back in the job hunt market...your 'ideal' job is unobtainable.  Maybe it's filled, maybe they can't justify a new position, whatever the case.  So, you take a different job, that is a good one, but maybe not everything you hoped.  HR from Company 1 calls you 6 months later with a better offer, and it's the job you've wanted...What do you do?  Are you loyal to the company you originally took the job with?  I know my answer.

It's all about timing, and these guys are going to take the opportunity when they can, because that opportunity might not come along for a long time if ever.  You guys are so ****ing critical of everyone because they take different jobs.  It's a business for crying out loud.

As long as JT has no contract, he's gone.  He learned a long time ago just how [dis]loyal your average big company is, especially when great boss is replaced by sh*tty boss with an agenda.  Now JT was unfailing loyal to those he managed to the point of hurting his career at certain times, but he held no loyalty to crappy management above.

[Jonny Utah]

Some of you guys are kinda ridiculous on this coaching matter.  If you don't like the guys or the programs that's one thing, but you can't fault these guys for going to greener pastures.  

Case in point, you are back in the job hunt market...your 'ideal' job is unobtainable.  Maybe it's filled, maybe they can't justify a new position, whatever the case.  So, you take a different job, that is a good one, but maybe not everything you hoped.  HR from Company 1 calls you 6 months later with a better offer, and it's the job you've wanted...What do you do?  Are you loyal to the company you originally took the job with?  I know my answer.

It's all about timing, and these guys are going to take the opportunity when they can, because that opportunity might not come along for a long time if ever.  You guys are so ****ing critical of everyone because they take different jobs.  It's a business for crying out loud.

It is called honor and integrity and honoring the contract you signed.  When I joined the Navy I signed a six year contract, 4 years active duty, 2 years inactive reserve.  I couldn't change my mind a year in decide I wanted to go to do something else.  Also if I was in one job and offered a better job I would give the current company a chance to match the offer and position.

KS what if you had to join the Canadian Navy first though because there were no openings in the US navy.  Then the US navy called and said they had an opening....?

Or the Mexican Navy?

_{The Mexican Navy}

[SJFF82]

I'm a Tennessee fan (for now, my in-laws are trying to move me into GT fully) and have to say good riddance.  That dood is destined for SMU style sanctions somewhere.  The only guy I've ever seen lose a PR battle to Al Davis since John Madden was relevant.  It seems like he's putting together a great team around him (Orgeron and Chow), but I have zero doubt that USC is beyond screwed.  

I have to say, it seems like stuff is getting more out of control than ever in the NCAA, big time athletics relationship.  Between "abusive" coaches (still think these guys are a bunch of crybabies) and weak spined administrators (a friend of my father in law's knows the AD and Leach and knows the AD didn't want to pay Leach last year, but didn't have the spine to stand up to the masses after a top ten finish, so they gave him the big $ extension), I'm hoping there's finally an overhaul of this whole bulls**t system.  I love DI, don't compare it to DIII, like so many here, but this s**t is out of control.  The NCAA is a joke.  Major college sports are minor league systems.  Do we really belive that the BB and FB guys are any different than in David Thompson's (BB) and late 50's Duke FB era (Dook notoriously bought an Orange Bowl appearance, flat out then)?  It's perception vs. reality, only now they can't keep a lid on it and it's going to cost the schools.  Ultimately, it's a good thing.  There's no school that is truly, GAAP, profitable (even the ones that claim a profit have whacked non-profit accounting that doesn't factor in subsidized borrowing costs from floating GO bonds to build FB only stadiums, for example), which means, as a consequence, that taxpayers subsidize this s**t, just like building new ballparks and arenas (the one area where I agree with Californians, who won't pony up for new ballparks, which are a waste of dough) instead of getting their fiscal hosue in order.  The SUNY people all wanted big time sports, but honestly, I think they're the only state that's got it right, where they spread the resources around better and get more in state kids a decent education vs. a Berkeley or UVA who takes a ton of out of state kids.  

Rant over.  

What he said. +K

Ha...82 gave a similar rant about the NCAA D1 style when Brian Kelly jumped ship on UC for ND and Doid didnt like my rant too much.  What has changed Doid?

[Yanks 99]

Some of you guys are kinda ridiculous on this coaching matter.  If you don't like the guys or the programs that's one thing, but you can't fault these guys for going to greener pastures. 

Case in point, you are back in the job hunt market...your 'ideal' job is unobtainable.  Maybe it's filled, maybe they can't justify a new position, whatever the case.  So, you take a different job, that is a good one, but maybe not everything you hoped.  HR from Company 1 calls you 6 months later with a better offer, and it's the job you've wanted...What do you do?  Are you loyal to the company you originally took the job with?  I know my answer.

It's all about timing, and these guys are going to take the opportunity when they can, because that opportunity might not come along for a long time if ever.  You guys are so ****ing critical of everyone because they take different jobs.  It's a business for crying out loud.

It is called honor and integrity and honoring the contract you signed.  When I joined the Navy I signed a six year contract, 4 years active duty, 2 years inactive reserve.  I couldn't change my mind a year in decide I wanted to go to do something else.  Also if I was in one job and offered a better job I would give the current company a chance to match the offer and position.

KS what if you had to join the Canadian Navy first though because there were no openings in the US navy.  Then the US navy called and said they had an opening....?

Personally, I think the military is an unfair comparison.  It has high ideals and preaches and lives by honor/integrity (and all of the other values).  Big business will never live by these same ideals, and never has...so tough to compare.  In almost every business situation one CAN leave...and usually does when offered a better job/opportunity.  Just the way it goes...

[lewdogg11]

Some of you guys are kinda ridiculous on this coaching matter.  If you don't like the guys or the programs that's one thing, but you can't fault these guys for going to greener pastures.  

Case in point, you are back in the job hunt market...your 'ideal' job is unobtainable.  Maybe it's filled, maybe they can't justify a new position, whatever the case.  So, you take a different job, that is a good one, but maybe not everything you hoped.  HR from Company 1 calls you 6 months later with a better offer, and it's the job you've wanted...What do you do?  Are you loyal to the company you originally took the job with?  I know my answer.

It's all about timing, and these guys are going to take the opportunity when they can, because that opportunity might not come along for a long time if ever.  You guys are so ****ing critical of everyone because they take different jobs.  It's a business for crying out loud.

It is called honor and integrity and honoring the contract you signed.  When I joined the Navy I signed a six year contract, 4 years active duty, 2 years inactive reserve.  I couldn't change my mind a year in decide I wanted to go to do something else.  Also if I was in one job and offered a better job I would give the current company a chance to match the offer and position.

KS what if you had to join the Canadian Navy first though because there were no openings in the US navy.  Then the US navy called and said they had an opening....?

Or the Mexican Navy?

_{The Mexican Navy}

Seriously, let's not measure your military experience and serving the country with coaching college football, or having any other corporate job.  As JT mentioned, you can be loyal your entire career and pass up other opportunities, and when the time is right, they won't hesitate to stick it up your butt.  

FYI - I think the Mexican Navy would be dope.

[SJFF82]

Some of you guys are kinda ridiculous on this coaching matter.  If you don't like the guys or the programs that's one thing, but you can't fault these guys for going to greener pastures. 

Case in point, you are back in the job hunt market...your 'ideal' job is unobtainable.  Maybe it's filled, maybe they can't justify a new position, whatever the case.  So, you take a different job, that is a good one, but maybe not everything you hoped.  HR from Company 1 calls you 6 months later with a better offer, and it's the job you've wanted...What do you do?  Are you loyal to the company you originally took the job with?  I know my answer.

It's all about timing, and these guys are going to take the opportunity when they can, because that opportunity might not come along for a long time if ever.  You guys are so ****ing critical of everyone because they take different jobs.  It's a business for crying out loud.

It is called honor and integrity and honoring the contract you signed.  When I joined the Navy I signed a six year contract, 4 years active duty, 2 years inactive reserve.  I couldn't change my mind a year in decide I wanted to go to do something else.  Also if I was in one job and offered a better job I would give the current company a chance to match the offer and position.

Exactly...I argued for honor and integrity when BK left UC and I got blasted by virtually every poster on here. 

[PBR...]

this guy basically never liked UT and dispised his time there by players accounts...

Really interesting stuff from an interview with Josh McNeil (former starting UT C) about Lane.

In February of 2009, just a few months after Lane Kiffin's tenure began at the University of Tennessee, Vols senior center Josh McNeil walked into the Neyland-Thompson sports complex on the university campus. He paused alongside the Vols 1998 national championship trophy and shook his head in disbelief.

"They'd replaced our highlight video from the past season with Reggie Bush, Matt Leinart, and Dwayne Jarrett from USC. I was like, 'Man, I know we were 5-7 last year, but this is Tennessee. Right beside our national title trophy? Come on, man.'"

Walking up the stairs, McNeil, a 6-foot-4 280 pound offensive lineman, says that all the televisions in the complex, at least 20, were tuned to still photos of stellar plays featuring USC athletes. In particular, McNeil paused in front of one photo of Reggie Bush diving into the end zone on a sunlit California field.

"I was thinking, 'Damn, Jamal Lewis went here. Travis Henry went here. It ain't like we never had any running backs of our own.'"

Within a day the pictures and video were down, but the message had been sent. A new era had dawned in Knoxville.

A few months later after witnessing what McNeil said he believed were affronts to the Tennessee tradition that upset him, the player confronted Kiffin. "Coach," he said, "I feel like you're intentionally not embracing UT's traditions."

Kiffin smirked. "Well, whatever Tennessee's been doing isn't working anymore, so we're coming up with something new. Get used to it."

When Kiffin said, "something new," he meant exactly what USC had already done before, McNeil told FanHouse. Multiple team sources confirmed McNeil's claims.

By Junior Day, March 2, 2009, Kiffin had his first crop of potential players, hundreds of then-high school juniors on Tennessee's campus.

The players were divided between offense and defense and placed in front of highlight videos that were designed to show them the Tennessee way of playing football.

As the offensive players sat down on the field, a video flashed on the screen with a word in bold:

DETERMINATION

McNeil watched. "I was thinking, maybe we're going to see Dan Williams block against Kentucky that got us into the SEC championship game (in 2007). That was a pretty huge play."

Instead a USC play featuring Reggie Bush opened the montage.

Another word flashed on the screen.

EXPLOSIVE

More USC highlights followed.

"All the way back to Carson Palmer," says McNeil. "I mean, really, Carson Palmer is explosive?"

At the end of the video, Lane Kiffin addressed the recruits.

"We're going to make this the USC of the South, and the USC of the East Coast," said Kiffin.

McNeil did not hide his disgust. "I was sitting right there and it broke my heart. I came to Tennessee because we were Tennessee, not because we were pretending to be somebody else."

McNeil paused.

"And you know what else? Out of all those clips there wasn't one Oakland Raider highlight. Not one. Now [the Oakland offense] is the same offense, you know? You ever think maybe it has something to do with the players?"


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

A drum begins slowly beating in the back of a Tennessee meeting room.

Ba-dum, ba-dum

Coach Ed Orgeron, UT's recruiting coordinator, steps to the front of the room.

"One heartbeat," he growls.

The drum beat gets louder and faster.

"I'm about to teach y'all our special team cheer," Coach Orgeron said to a gathering of Tennessee players.

Ba-dum, ba-dum, ba-dum, ba-dum.

"We're going to be crazy about special teams here."

"Now when these two Bushwackers run through the door, you rip your shirts off and scream as loud as you can. One side of the room yell, 'ST,' and the other side yell, 'wild boys.'"

The doors burst open, and two graduate assistants on the football team, walking like the Bushwackers from the old WWE wrestling days, arms gesticulating awkwardly in front of them, begin madly stomping about the room.

Coach Orgeron screams, "What's the first thing you do before you get in a fight?"

No answer.

"You take your shirt off!" he screams.

Then Coach Orgeron rips off his shirt in front of the team.

The drumbeat is incessant, loud. Players stare at one another.

Coach Orgeron begins to lead the cheer.

"ST!" he screams.

"ST," the team responds.

"Wild boys!" Orgeron screams.

"Wild boys," the team responds.

"Damn, I felt like an idiot with my shirt off," McNeil says. "So did lots of the older guys."

But some of the younger players believed the chant was very cool, McNeil said. It fired them up.

At least it did until they realized that the "new chant" the UT coaching staff introduced to the players was a retread.

"It was a USC thing," McNeil says, "I took an official visit there. They used to say, 'SC', and the other side would say, 'wild boys.' They came to Tennessee and they changed SC to ST for special teams. How lame is that?"

Eventually the shirtless drills fade out.

"We didn't get as hyped up as they wanted us too, everybody would just laugh," says McNeil, "We just all kind of thought it was weird."


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

That year for spring practice, Lane Kiffin instituted a new rule, profanity was permissible in the songs they would play as the players stretched.

As UT players got loose and children visiting practice ran along the sidelines, hardcore rap lyrics blared alongside Kid Rock anthems.

The current players had no issue with the cursing, some liked it.

But several former UT players were offended when they brought their young children to the practice and heard the music, according to team sources interviewed by FanHouse.

Kiffin didn't care.

"He told me that's how they did it at USC," McNeil says.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

As the start of a new season neared, Kiffin and crew focused on their continuing makeover of the Vols.

It was time to practice their team chants.

Kiffin said, "When we're on national TV about to come out of the tunnel, we've got to make it look good."

The entire team lined up in the end zone as part of fall camp.

One side would yell, "It's war time," while another side said, "Let's take it outside."

Tennessee players embraced the new tradition. They believed it was theirs and theirs alone.

Until one of the players found it on YouTube. (A similar video can be found here)

Another USC chant.

This time verbatim.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

As the season neared, a new controversy arose: Kiffin did not want to say General Neyland's Game Maxims. The tradition, in which the Volunteer players chant the seven maxims beginning with:
"Coach Kiffin cared about Tennessee traditions less than the worst Vol hater in the state in Alabama. That man's a snake."
- Josh McNeil, Former Vols Lineman
"One: The team that makes the fewest mistakes will win."

And ending with:

"Seven: Carry the fight to our opponent and keep it there for sixty minutes."

The maxims trace back to the legendary General Neyland, the all-time winningest coach in Tennessee history and the man the stadium was named after.

Kiffin didn't like the maxims, didn't want to do them. For decades they'd been the final words uttered by every Tennessee player as he left the locker room and rushed onto the field.

Always the head coach led the chant.

No longer.

Kiffin brought in past players and had them lead the team in the chant instead.

Often he was in the coaches' locker room during the chanting. Later, in a departure that altered 70 years of Tennessee tradition, Kiffin didn't take the maxims with the team on the road.

Not a single coach ever said the maxims either, according to team sources.

For McNeil, this confirmed his worst suspicions. "Coach Kiffin cared about Tennessee traditions less than the worst Vol hater in the state of Alabama," he said. "That man's a snake."


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

But everything wasn't bad at Tennessee.

For instance, there was Lane's dad, Monte, the team's defensive coordinator.

"Monte was loved by everyone," says McNeil. "He was a great guy, a great football coach, but a better guy."

McNeil pauses for a moment, thinks.

"He and Lane had absolutely nothing in common."

[SJFF82]

Ya'll know why the Polish Navy has glass bottom boats???

[Knightstalker]

Some of you guys are kinda ridiculous on this coaching matter.  If you don't like the guys or the programs that's one thing, but you can't fault these guys for going to greener pastures. 

Case in point, you are back in the job hunt market...your 'ideal' job is unobtainable.  Maybe it's filled, maybe they can't justify a new position, whatever the case.  So, you take a different job, that is a good one, but maybe not everything you hoped.  HR from Company 1 calls you 6 months later with a better offer, and it's the job you've wanted...What do you do?  Are you loyal to the company you originally took the job with?  I know my answer.

It's all about timing, and these guys are going to take the opportunity when they can, because that opportunity might not come along for a long time if ever.  You guys are so ****ing critical of everyone because they take different jobs.  It's a business for crying out loud.

It is called honor and integrity and honoring the contract you signed.  When I joined the Navy I signed a six year contract, 4 years active duty, 2 years inactive reserve.  I couldn't change my mind a year in decide I wanted to go to do something else.  Also if I was in one job and offered a better job I would give the current company a chance to match the offer and position.

KS what if you had to join the Canadian Navy first though because there were no openings in the US navy.  Then the US navy called and said they had an opening....?

KS would hang himself from the yardarm before joining the Canadian anything.

[lewdogg11]

Hey PBR, notice almost all of the quotes in there are from the same poor wittle wineman?  Poor Josh McNeil.  Sounds like sour grapes to me.

[Stlarry]

Some of you guys are kinda ridiculous on this coaching matter.  If you don't like the guys or the programs that's one thing, but you can't fault these guys for going to greener pastures.  

Case in point, you are back in the job hunt market...your 'ideal' job is unobtainable.  Maybe it's filled, maybe they can't justify a new position, whatever the case.  So, you take a different job, that is a good one, but maybe not everything you hoped.  HR from Company 1 calls you 6 months later with a better offer, and it's the job you've wanted...What do you do?  Are you loyal to the company you originally took the job with?  I know my answer.

It's all about timing, and these guys are going to take the opportunity when they can, because that opportunity might not come along for a long time if ever.  You guys are so ****ing critical of everyone because they take different jobs.  It's a business for crying out loud.

It is called honor and integrity and honoring the contract you signed.  When I joined the Navy I signed a six year contract, 4 years active duty, 2 years inactive reserve.  I couldn't change my mind a year in decide I wanted to go to do something else.  Also if I was in one job and offered a better job I would give the current company a chance to match the offer and position.

KS what if you had to join the Canadian Navy first though because there were no openings in the US navy.  Then the US navy called and said they had an opening....?

Or the Mexican Navy?

_{The Mexican Navy}

Seriously, let's not measure your military experience and serving the country with coaching college football, or having any other corporate job.  As JT mentioned, you can be loyal your entire career and pass up other opportunities, and when the time is right, they won't hesitate to stick it up your butt.  

FYI - I think the Mexican Navy would be dope.

You could definitely GET dope in the Mexican Navy...

[PBR...]

Hey PBR, notice almost all of the quotes in there are from the same poor wittle wineman?  Poor Josh McNeil.  Sounds like sour grapes to me.

ya know pbr thought that too until he read the parts that said it was confirmed w/ other playahs....

[Jonny Utah]

Some of you guys are kinda ridiculous on this coaching matter.  If you don't like the guys or the programs that's one thing, but you can't fault these guys for going to greener pastures.  

Case in point, you are back in the job hunt market...your 'ideal' job is unobtainable.  Maybe it's filled, maybe they can't justify a new position, whatever the case.  So, you take a different job, that is a good one, but maybe not everything you hoped.  HR from Company 1 calls you 6 months later with a better offer, and it's the job you've wanted...What do you do?  Are you loyal to the company you originally took the job with?  I know my answer.

It's all about timing, and these guys are going to take the opportunity when they can, because that opportunity might not come along for a long time if ever.  You guys are so ****ing critical of everyone because they take different jobs.  It's a business for crying out loud.

It is called honor and integrity and honoring the contract you signed.  When I joined the Navy I signed a six year contract, 4 years active duty, 2 years inactive reserve.  I couldn't change my mind a year in decide I wanted to go to do something else.  Also if I was in one job and offered a better job I would give the current company a chance to match the offer and position.

KS what if you had to join the Canadian Navy first though because there were no openings in the US navy.  Then the US navy called and said they had an opening....?

Or the Mexican Navy?

_{The Mexican Navy}

Seriously, let's not measure your military experience and serving the country with coaching college football, or having any other corporate job.  As JT mentioned, you can be loyal your entire career and pass up other opportunities, and when the time is right, they won't hesitate to stick it up your butt.  

FYI - I think the Mexican Navy would be dope.

I wasn't trying to compare combat to coaching, but there are (supposed) values associated with college athletics.  College football at a University is (or should be) different than a profit corporation.

And many people join the military for reasons other than honor or integrity.  Historically being a soldier has been a "job".

(I don't want people to intrepret my comments to think I don't value the US military or anything else related to war, honor, sacrifice)

[lewdogg11]

Hey PBR, notice almost all of the quotes in there are from the same poor wittle wineman?  Poor Josh McNeil.  Sounds like sour grapes to me.

ya know pbr thought that too until he read the parts that said it was confirmed w/ other playahs....

McNeil's 2 roommates perhaps?

[Knightstalker]

Some of you guys are kinda ridiculous on this coaching matter.  If you don't like the guys or the programs that's one thing, but you can't fault these guys for going to greener pastures.  

Case in point, you are back in the job hunt market...your 'ideal' job is unobtainable.  Maybe it's filled, maybe they can't justify a new position, whatever the case.  So, you take a different job, that is a good one, but maybe not everything you hoped.  HR from Company 1 calls you 6 months later with a better offer, and it's the job you've wanted...What do you do?  Are you loyal to the company you originally took the job with?  I know my answer.

It's all about timing, and these guys are going to take the opportunity when they can, because that opportunity might not come along for a long time if ever.  You guys are so ****ing critical of everyone because they take different jobs.  It's a business for crying out loud.

It is called honor and integrity and honoring the contract you signed.  When I joined the Navy I signed a six year contract, 4 years active duty, 2 years inactive reserve.  I couldn't change my mind a year in decide I wanted to go to do something else.  Also if I was in one job and offered a better job I would give the current company a chance to match the offer and position.

KS what if you had to join the Canadian Navy first though because there were no openings in the US navy.  Then the US navy called and said they had an opening....?

Or the Mexican Navy?

_{The Mexican Navy}

Seriously, let's not measure your military experience and serving the country with coaching college football, or having any other corporate job.  As JT mentioned, you can be loyal your entire career and pass up other opportunities, and when the time is right, they won't hesitate to stick it up your butt.  

FYI - I think the Mexican Navy would be dope.

OK forget the military, but it is still about honor and integrity, most of us don't sign contracts when we take new jobs.  We may sign an offer letter that usually states either party can terminate at anytime.  A contract is to be honored.