FB: Liberty League

[Pat Coleman]

I was only one of them of course, TGP, but yeah, nitpicking and obfuscation will easily get you a minus-K from me.

Good to know, but while I'll keep that in mind for myself, be assurred I'll be happy to call out your nitpicking/obfuscation (n/o)  going forward as well

...and on the Third Season premiere of "In the HuddLLe" next month, it's "THE GURU" squaring off against "THE PUMPKIN" in a no-holds-barred throwdown about the relative strength of the 2010 Liberty League.  It'll be a karma shakedown as these two go head to head and show their football IQs while you place your (mythical) wagers in the chatroom.  Check your local listings for the date, time and channel!

This should be easy, considering the league's results in the big dance last November.

[dlippiel]

I was only one of them of course, TGP, but yeah, nitpicking and obfuscation will easily get you a minus-K from me.

Good to know, but while I'll keep that in mind for myself, be assurred I'll be happy to call out your nitpicking/obfuscation (n/o)  going forward as well

+k pumpkin because last dlip checked nitpicking, obfuscation, and calling out the most finite details regarding any D3 football topic are what we do here isn't it? If we didn't we wouldn't be the hardcore dedicated D3 football fans we are...and also this site would be empty... 

[dlippiel]

Yet dlip must make it clear that PC has a very legit point here. dlip is as big an LL fan as there is but it is getting to be that time where this league needs a representative to make some noise, not only in the East, but nationally. Susquehanna's defeat last year at the hands of a "good" Del Val team really hurt our standing as a possible top ten league IDHO.

[Frank Rossi]

I was only one of them of course, TGP, but yeah, nitpicking and obfuscation will easily get you a minus-K from me.

Good to know, but while I'll keep that in mind for myself, be assurred I'll be happy to call out your nitpicking/obfuscation (n/o)  going forward as well

...and on the Third Season premiere of "In the HuddLLe" next month, it's "THE GURU" squaring off against "THE PUMPKIN" in a no-holds-barred throwdown about the relative strength of the 2010 Liberty League.  It'll be a karma shakedown as these two go head to head and show their football IQs while you place your (mythical) wagers in the chatroom.  Check your local listings for the date, time and channel!

This should be easy, considering the league's results in the big dance last November.

TGP, Guru has apparently accepted the matchup.  Are you accepting, as well?

[dlippiel]

I was only one of them of course, TGP, but yeah, nitpicking and obfuscation will easily get you a minus-K from me.

Good to know, but while I'll keep that in mind for myself, be assurred I'll be happy to call out your nitpicking/obfuscation (n/o)  going forward as well

...and on the Third Season premiere of "In the HuddLLe" next month, it's "THE GURU" squaring off against "THE PUMPKIN" in a no-holds-barred throwdown about the relative strength of the 2010 Liberty League.  It'll be a karma shakedown as these two go head to head and show their football IQs while you place your (mythical) wagers in the chatroom.  Check your local listings for the date, time and channel!

This should be easy, considering the league's results in the big dance last November.

TGP, Guru has apparently accepted the matchup.  Are you accepting, as well?

TGP getting warmed up 

[Frank Rossi]

Yet dlip must make it clear that PC has a very legit point here. dlip is as big an LL fan as there is but it is getting to be that time where this league needs a representative to make some noise, not only in the East, but nationally. Susquehanna's defeat last year at the hands of a "good" Del Val team really hurt our standing as a possible top ten league IDHO.

There are two problems with the argument, though.  The SUS/DVL game was 10-7 25 minutes into it.  Three TDs in 4 minutes by DVL turned the game into a nightmare before halftime -- and when it's the playoffs, SUS had no choice but to throw the kitchen sink at the game in the second half, leading to just more of a slippery slope.  DVL also had the luxury of the SUS/UNI game since Union was the first team to expose the weaknesses of Palazzi last year.  Was SUS better than DVL other than the score?  No, I wouldn't even begin to contend that.  My issue is pointing at a single 59-point game and basing the world on it.   This is the same thing that Pat and others did when SJF stomped UNI in the 2006 playoffs -- and using that result, Hobart should've lost to Lycoming in 2008 since nothing else had changed in two years.  It was one really bad day for a team that had an otherwise comeback season in a league that saw a lot of transition and youth.   Experience means a lot this year for the LL teams.  Don't underestimate the winner this year.  While smart money says Union is the likely winner this year, there are some real wildcards in this league again.  More on that soon from me.

On top of that, let's remember... Union beat Ithaca last year -- one of the teams in the list of potential East Region winners.  Union brings back a whole lot on offense and some great experience in positions in which seniors graduated on defense.  Don't underestimate the opener on Sept. 11 between those two teams.

[Pat Coleman]

25 minutes in, seriously? It's not even a 30-minute game, it's a 60-minute game.

Susquehanna's only score came one play after Del Val fumbled the opening kickoff. The Crusaders' longest drive of the day was 37 yards. Which score is the fluke, the 66 or the 7?

[Frank Rossi]

25 minutes in, seriously? It's not even a 30-minute game, it's a 60-minute game.

Susquehanna's only score came one play after Del Val fumbled the opening kickoff. The Crusaders' longest drive of the day was 37 yards. Which score is the fluke, the 66 or the 7?

Next time, address the entirety of the argument.  I didn't refute that it was a 59-point game -- I stated that it wasn't utter domination for the first 40% of the game.  I also stated that one result doesn't a region make (see 2006 Union/SJF -- based on that result and the rest of the LL results that year, the LL shouldn't have won a playoff game for four years, based on the post-mortum around here).  Also, there are 3 E6 teams listed in that poll, one of which lost head-to-head with the LL co-champ.  Union was 2-0 vs. the E6 last year.  If Union is indeed the frontrunner in your mind this season, then they did belong in that list.

If your only argument is a 59-point game, then I think the argument is very flawed.  There are other salient arguments you could make here.

[Frank Rossi]

(Note: I'm not stating I would vote for Union in that poll -- it's just a bit of a mystifying exclusion when you consider the entirety of the East, returning starters for all teams and a good record against a decent crop when you consider the OOC teams Union did play.  Is the LL REALLY on par with the NEFC in your view?  That's the message I'm getting from that poll setup.  Therein lays my issue.)

[bman]

Obfuscation?  ..Salient....?

Let's get back to more important topics...

[Frank Rossi]

Obfuscation?  ..Salient....?

Let's get back to more important topics...

Hey, I tried some YouTube humor to no avail... I thought this turned into the E6PP for a day or something

[Pat Coleman]

25 minutes in, seriously? It's not even a 30-minute game, it's a 60-minute game.

Susquehanna's only score came one play after Del Val fumbled the opening kickoff. The Crusaders' longest drive of the day was 37 yards. Which score is the fluke, the 66 or the 7?

Next time, address the entirety of the argument.  I didn't refute that it was a 59-point game -- I stated that it wasn't utter domination for the first 40% of the game. 

On the scoreboard alone, and solely because Del Val gift-wrapped the only points Susquehanna would score. I suspect you've seen enough football to know that "utter domination" is in the eyes of the beholder.

Seriously, you led off with the most specious of specious arguments. What else is there to say after that weakness?

[Frank Rossi]

25 minutes in, seriously? It's not even a 30-minute game, it's a 60-minute game.

Susquehanna's only score came one play after Del Val fumbled the opening kickoff. The Crusaders' longest drive of the day was 37 yards. Which score is the fluke, the 66 or the 7?

Next time, address the entirety of the argument.  I didn't refute that it was a 59-point game -- I stated that it wasn't utter domination for the first 40% of the game.

Seriously, you led off with the most specious of specious arguments. What else is there to say after that weakness?

On the scoreboard alone, and solely because Del Val gift-wrapped the only points Susquehanna would score. I suspect you've seen enough football to know that "utter domination" is in the eyes of the beholder.

In the law, concede weakness to the jury to assure them that you're not completely nuts, but attack with your strength.  You must always address your opponent's argument to win, be it a bench trial or jury trial.


That said, you're avoiding the rest, Guru.  Reason?

[dlippiel]

Sorry Frank dlip has to agree with PC here. To dlip that game was telltale regarding Susquehanna's representation of our beloved conference. Funny and possibly hypocritical (and maybe homerish) but dlip feels that Union would have given DVC a much better game if Coney was healthy (which if Union defeated SUS Coney would have been unable to go against DVC). Regardless of this debate which really is small potatoes to the bigger argument that the LL needs to step up in 2010 as does the East as a whole.

No question to dlip that the LL has become very competitive and exciting to watch year in and year out. dlip for sure bleeds Garnet first and LL each and every day but the "get better" argument in relation to the rest of the nation is relevant and appropriate at this time regarding the LL.

Union is the front runner this year for sure. dlip looks froward to presenting some information regarding the teams strengths and potential for 2010. dlip is getting itchy and excited for the U's 2010 campaign. Frank give dlip a shout or PM nect time you are in Shocktown and let's go to Peter Pause and see Bruno and fam. He brought Sophia in a couple weeks ago and had a blast!

[Frank Rossi]

Sorry Frank dlip has to agree with PC here. To dlip that game was telltale regarding Susquehanna's representation of our beloved conference. Funny and possibly hypocritical (and maybe homerish) but dlip feels that Union would have given DVC a much better game if Coney was healthy (which if Union defeated SUS Coney would have been unable to go against DVC). Regardless of this debate which really is small potatoes to the bigger argument that the LL needs to step up in 2010 as does the East as a whole.

No question to dlip that the LL has become very competitive and exciting to watch year in and year out. dlip for sure bleeds Garnet first and LL each and every day but the "get better" argument in relation to the rest of the nation is relevant and appropriate at this time regarding the LL.

Union is the front runner this year for sure. dlip looks froward to presenting some information regarding the teams strengths and potential for 2010. dlip is getting itchy and excited for the U's 2010 campaign. Frank give dlip a shout or PM nect time you are in Shocktown and let's go to Peter Pause and see Bruno and fam. He brought Sophia in a couple weeks ago and had a blast!

So, you're also saying that the SUS/DVC game relegated the LL to NEFC status?