FB: Liberty League

[Frank Rossi]

Interesting.  2008 is the year that 2-loss Wheaton got a pool C, then proved they deserved it by winning three games before meeting Mount Union in the national semi-finals.

Good catch, and thanks for jogging my memory.  There actually weren't enough 1-loss teams that year to fill out Pool C once RPI lost to USMMA and Rowan/Montclair both lost in the last couple weekends.  We had a lot of 1-loss carnage that day, as I remember calling the UNI/SUS game in a giant rainstorm and getting out of town scores in a 15-minute period that just seemed to be carnage after carnage.

The arguments that flowed from there were that there were so many excellent 2-loss teams when compared to 1-loss Curry in that situation (a Curry team that technically wasn't even the official "runner up" in the NEFC based on how the Championship Game exists in the NEFC), that why should the Committee have given Curry that bid.  The discussion became that the Selection Committee was not going to ignore a 1-loss team on the board anymore.  The only way Wheaton was considered was because they needed one more team once granting bids to the 1-loss teams was complete.

[Mr. Ypsi]

Interesting.  2008 is the year that 2-loss Wheaton got a pool C, then proved they deserved it by winning three games before meeting Mount Union in the national semi-finals.

Good catch, and thanks for jogging my memory.  There actually weren't enough 1-loss teams that year to fill out Pool C once RPI lost to USMMA and Rowan/Montclair both lost in the last couple weekends.  We had a lot of 1-loss carnage that day, as I remember calling the UNI/SUS game in a giant rainstorm and getting out of town scores in a 15-minute period that just seemed to be carnage after carnage.

The arguments that flowed from there were that there were so many excellent 2-loss teams when compared to 1-loss Curry in that situation (a Curry team that technically wasn't even the official "runner up" in the NEFC based on how the Championship Game exists in the NEFC), that why should the Committee have given Curry that bid.  The discussion became that the Selection Committee was not going to ignore a 1-loss team on the board anymore.  The only way Wheaton was considered was because they needed one more team once granting bids to the 1-loss teams was complete.

My larger point (I'm NOT a fan of Wheaton, being an IWU Titan! ) was the discounting of 2-loss teams at all.  If memory serves (I hate that the past records have not yet been restored to d3sports.com sites ), Wheaton beat teams that to that point were a combined 32-1 (might have been 31-2). 

Memo to NCAA and Johnny Labcoat: YES, there are worthy 2-loss teams out there!  MAYBE not Stagg teams (though maybe yes), but 2-loss teams better than many 1-loss teams.

[AUKaz00]

Hope you are right Frank.  Hobart hasn't had a 10 game regular season since '97 when they finished 6-4 (2-2 in the then, UCAA), losing to 'Wick and RPI by a combined 3 pts to wrap the season....

BTW - so far Hobart has only one OOC game scheduled for 2012 - vs. Geneva (hopefully not the local High School)...

Have heard rumblings that a two-year commitment with Mayberry U is in the works beginning 2012.  I could be wrong and Hobart is actually following Newport News' lead and scheduling Alfred State instead...

[Jonny Utah]

Memo to NCAA and Johnny Labcoat: YES, there are worthy 2-loss teams out there!  MAYBE not Stagg teams (though maybe yes), but 2-loss teams better than many 1-loss teams.

Part of my point is that there can be and should be worthy 2-loss teams.  I'm just saying that most years their aren't, and that is why we haven't seen any (or many).

[labart96]

Hope you are right Frank.  Hobart hasn't had a 10 game regular season since '97 when they finished 6-4 (2-2 in the then, UCAA), losing to 'Wick and RPI by a combined 3 pts to wrap the season....

BTW - so far Hobart has only one OOC game scheduled for 2012 - vs. Geneva (hopefully not the local High School)...

Have heard rumblings that a two-year commitment with Mayberry U is in the works beginning 2012.  I could be wrong and Hobart is actually following Newport News' lead and scheduling Alfred State instead...

I hope so.  Would make sense to renew the Saxon-Statesmen rivalry given the respective "rise" of both programs (albeit Hobart has had a couple of "down years").

Speaking of Hobart, they have a totally whacked 2011 schedule if I am reading it correctly, 1) Hobart only has 8 games scheduled since the series with CMU has ended and Widener cancelled on Hobart a few weeks ago 2) Hobart has THREE WEEKS OFF between their first and second games?!?! 

I am hoping the latter is a typo but it's not (i.e., the Dicks game is actually on 9/10/11 since they played on 9/11/10 last season and the fact that 9/3 is Labor Day Weekend).   This is a nightmare for players, and no home games on that brand new field until October seems like a complete waste.

Anyway it seems like Coach Hanna will be on the phone looking for games against East teams for the next few weeks and/or over the spring/summer...

[Frank Rossi]

Carnegie Mellon's schedule is full in September.  9/10/11 is vs. Allegheny.  Note that the next day is the 10th Anniversary of 9/11, so I'm wondering if that or the NCAA sanctions might not be causing some sort of oddities here.  Hobart shouldn't have that much trouble scheduling, you'd think.

[labart96]

Carnegie Mellon's schedule is full in September.  9/10/11 is vs. Allegheny.  Note that the next day is the 10th Anniversary of 9/11, so I'm wondering if that or the NCAA sanctions might not be causing some sort of oddities here.  Hobart shouldn't have that much trouble scheduling, you'd think.

Perhaps but if Hanna's truly looking for "eastern region" teams, it looks like there is only one with an open date on 9/10 and 9/17 and that's Husson, who is 600 miles away and they just booked with Wesley on one of those weeeknds. 

I suppose Gallaudet in DC (given Bart has a decent alumni base down there and we don't play Georgetown in Lacrosse any more since they split for the Big East) could be an option given DC is only 340 miles away and in the case of the former they do play at least one other LL team (MMA).  That said GU appears like an "out of region" team (eventhough they are in the ECFC which is supposed to be an "eastern conference"), and I don't really see any value in Hobart playing those guys.  I thought Catholic was a possibility but they are already booked according to Hobart.

That said I'd rather have Bart take on another Centennial or E8 team(s) rather than an ECFC one.

[Frank Rossi]

Well, this actually is a big problem, now that I take a closer look at it.

Teams With Open Dates on...

9/10/11:

Averett
Catholic
Dubuque
Gallaudet
Hobart
Husson
Louisiana College
North Central (Ill.)
St. Scholastica
Sul Ross State
UW-Stevens Point
Wesley

9/17/01:

Albion
Birmingham-Southern
Concordia (Ill.)
Gallaudet
Hobart
Husson
Louisiana College
North Carolina Wesleyan
Occidental
Puget Sound
Rhodes
Sewanee
UW-Whitewater
Washington and Lee
Wesley
Willamette

10/25/11:

Adrian
Catholic
Coe
Hobart
Stevenson

In speaking with Pat, he reminded me that the list isn't exhaustive -- so there may be others out there.  Yet, we're six months from kickoff of the season -- so this is a little late to be playing this game still, no?

[labart96]

It is late and it's mostly due to Widener's cancellation on Hobart a few weeks ago (see edits made above) that caused them to be looking around at this point.

That said I have confirmed that Hobart is looking for only one game (i.e., they are sticking with their usual 9).

This also just in - Husson and Gallaudet said no to Hobart.  UWW is available but like Wesley that isn't going to happen....

[Jonny Utah]

Hobart should make a cross-country road trip out of it.  Drive out to play Dubuque on 9/10, then drive out to play Puget Sound on 9/17.  Then fly back on 9/18.  They could practice every day on the way out to Puget Sound.  Hell, bring a couple history professors with you to tour you around the Ol' Injun Country and the Black Hills.

[Pat Coleman]

It is late and it's mostly due to Widener's cancellation on Hobart a few weeks ago (see edits made above) that caused them to be looking around at this point.

That said I have confirmed that Hobart is looking for only one game (i.e., they are sticking with their usual 9).

This also just in - Husson and Gallaudet said no to Hobart.  UWW is available but like Wesley that isn't going to happen....

It is late and it's mostly due to Widener's cancellation on Hobart a few weeks ago (see edits made above) that caused them to be looking around at this point.

That said I have confirmed that Hobart is looking for only one game (i.e., they are sticking with their usual 9).

This also just in - Husson and Gallaudet said no to Hobart.  UWW is available but like Wesley that isn't going to happen....

It's hard to quote a post that keeps changing but on Widener, the MAC and NJAC announced a challenge to replace the MAC-PAC challenge so that and Stevenson joining the league really hampers the MAC schedules for a few years.

[labart96]

Thx for the clarification Pat.  I had forgotten about the Widener PAC-MAC connection.

Apologize for the constant edits - I was just trying to get my facts straight which is something I apparently need to work on.

[labart96]

Hobart should make a cross-country road trip out of it.  Drive out to play Dubuque on 9/10, then drive out to play Puget Sound on 9/17.  Then fly back on 9/18.  They could practice every day on the way out to Puget Sound.  Hell, bring a couple history professors with you to tour you around the Ol' Injun Country and the Black Hills.

Nice k+

What else do liberal arts students need to be around campus for?

ROAD TRIP!!!

[labart96]

9/17/01:
Washington and Lee

I like this match up a lot.  Not sure if W&L would agree (caveat being this was posted around 2008 so likely not a real option) but Hobart needs to get something on the books fast.  A lot of teams Hobart's contacted from the open date list have already booked games and I am not sure how many other options are left six months out?

[Frank Rossi]

Well, Hobart is in a big bind -- but this actually could open up the playbook for an interesting scenario.

Let's say Hobart got stuck at 8 games.  Either the Statesmen win the LL or end up, at best, at 7-1.  Since the Selection Committee has begun ignoring in-region vs. out-of-region distinctions due to the small sample sizes, Hobart would already be an extreme Pool C underdog -- so much so, that I would assume the Selection Committee would lump Hobart into a 2-loss team comparison before it would compare it to the 1-loss pool.

If that's the case, then WHY NOT PLAY UWW OR WESLEY?  Things change immensely if the purpose of strategic scheduling in the first place unravels because of the problem they're encountering.  The point here is that it is better to play a 9-game schedule with a national contender than it is to play an 8-game schedule with virtually no chance at a Pool C bid at the outset.  The only tough part is that there would be no reciprocal game in 2012 as it currently stands -- but part of me feels that Wesley or UWW would be willing to share expenses to at least buy this type of game for one year and build a relationship with a school in another region for the future.  I'd urge Hobart to consider this scenario if things don't change soon.