FB: Liberty League

[Doid23]

Your new RPI Leader  - good luck (remaining staff will not be returning)

Tim Landis - Offensive Coordinator San Jose St.

After serving as a head coach at three Football Championship Subdivision (FCS) schools for the last 17 seasons, Tim Landis joined the San Jose State University  coaching staff in January 2010. In his first season with the Spartans, he will serve as the offensive coordinator and coach the tight ends.

As a head coach, Landis could be termed a turnaround specialist. He had 10 seasons of .500 or better win-loss records. Six times between 2000 and 2006, his teams were ranked nationally in the top-10 for rushing offense in the FCS.

Landis comes to San Jose State from Bucknell University where he was the head coach from 2003 through 2009. His arrival followed the untimely death of his predecessor, Tom Gadd, who went to Bucknell in 1995 after two seasons as San Jose State's defensive coordinator. The Bison finished with a .500 or better three times and compiled a 32-46 win-loss record.

His first head coaching position came at Davidson College starting in 1993 where he was one of the youngest Division I head coaches at age 29. The 1998 and 1999 seasons were his best. Davidson had never won eight football games in a single season and the Wildcats did it twice, first, in 1998, and again in 1999. In four of his seven seasons, Davidson had .500 or better winning percentages. His coaching record at Davidson was 35-36-1.

At Saint Mary's College, Landis reversed a Gaels program that won just four times in two years. He strung together three win-loss records of .500 or better from 2000 through 2002. With a 6-5 record in 2001 and 6-6 in 2002, he was named the Division I-AA Independent Coach of the Year.  

His overall major college head coaching record is 85-98-1.

Hmmmm, looks like a decision made toward moving up in the future to me.

I don't understand your post U89.  Did you expect them to hire a former Pop-Warner coach looking for a step up in competition?

You don't understand the post? Really? They hired a coach who has been a 1-AA head coach for 17 years, and an Offensive Coordinator for a D1 school. Can you recall a similar hiring for a DIII school? Sounds like a great hire for RPI, but not sure why Landis would take the job, unless he saw an opportunity to develop RPI into a 1-AA program.

Or maybe he has always wanted to live in Troy.

I think it could be true, but maybe it is just being interpreted the way some of you want to interpret.  And let's get this right, EVERYONE wants to live in Troy.  Best wings around and it's just over the bridge from Gus's Hot Dogs.

Hmmm, mini dogs. Although I'm partial to Mike's First Prize Dogs in Schenectady, what 300 pounder could stay away from 50 cent mini dogs, $1 cheeseburgers, etc. I haven't been able to find that type of chili sauce anywhere else except the Capital Region.

[Pat Coleman]

Davidson was and still is (I believe) non-scholarship. In the mid-90s they were playing a bunch of D-III schools regularly, especially ODAC teams.

[Frank Rossi]

Davidson was and still is (I believe) non-scholarship. In the mid-90s they were playing a bunch of D-III schools regularly, especially ODAC teams.

This page would place that in doubt, at least concerning the present state of affairs:

http://www3.davidson.edu/cms/x14974.xml

[EDIT: Other pages seem to suggest the Pioneer League, which is still Davidson's football conference, is indeed non-scholarship.  Davidson is a scholarship basketball school, as many remember from their March Madness stint last decade.]

[HSCTiger74]

Davidson was and still is (I believe) non-scholarship. In the mid-90s they were playing a bunch of D-III schools regularly, especially ODAC teams.

This page would place that in doubt, at least concerning the present state of affairs:

http://www3.davidson.edu/cms/x14974.xml

[EDIT: Other pages seem to suggest the Pioneer League, which is still Davidson's football conference, is indeed non-scholarship.  Davidson is a scholarship basketball school, as many remember from their March Madness stint last decade.]

Davidson is a scholarship-granting member of the Southern Conference in all sports except football. They are a member of the non-scholarship Patriot League for that sport.

[Jonny Utah]

I know there is probably no chance of this, but I was talking to a Umass football coach a few weeks ago and he was telling me that their school administrators are in the process of looking at joining the MAC conference for football.  Now Buffalo is in the MAC, and seemed to make an easy transition to that league from what was a pretty average d3 school.  Does RPI have this big jump in mind?  The stadium looks like it can handle it, but 5,200 seats would be impossible at the d-1 level, so it is probably zero chance they will do this.  But then that made me think, 5,200 isn't going to cut it for a d1-aa stadium either.  Does anyone know what the head coaching salary is at RPI?  I'm going to guess an OC at SJ State is going to pay about 150K, and I could see an RPI head making close to that.  So the jump "down" isn't that crazy a move although it is rare for a d-1 OC to make that jump.

Just some rambling thoughts.

[Pat Coleman]

150,000 is really high for a D-III head coach. But it's probably really high for a D-I FCS coordinator as well (unless you're at Appalachian State or Montana or something). I would suspect both jobs are more likely to pay in the neighborhood of 70.

[Jonny Utah]

150,000 is really high for a D-III head coach. But it's probably really high for a D-I FCS coordinator as well (unless you're at Appalachian State or Montana or something). I would suspect both jobs are more likely to pay in the neighborhood of 70.

I'd love to know what some of these d3 coaches get paid.  I would assume guys like Welch, Audino, and King make 100K because they had been there for so long.  I can't picture any of those guys making much less than 100K.  

And I thought this guy was at San Jose State? 

[bill]

Guys

For what it's worth, maybe there were some other issues at work here with Tim. IMHO, his hiring by RPI has absolutely nothing to do with any potential move for RPI beyond DIII. Maybe he has family on the east coast, maybe he didn't like the west coast, maybe a combination of both... I wish Coach the best at RPI.

By the way, congrats to one RPI's assistants, Brian Surace. I'm sure he'll do a great job!

[bill]

Jonny Labcoat -

There are several D3 coaches I can think of the NJ/PA area who earn at or very close to 100K...

[Frank Rossi]

Guys

For what it's worth, maybe there were some other issues at work here with Tim. IMHO, his hiring by RPI has absolutely nothing to do with any potential move for RPI beyond DIII. Maybe he has family on the east coast, maybe he didn't like the west coast, maybe a combination of both... I wish Coach the best at RPI.

By the way, congrats to one of the other RPI finalists, Brian Surace. I'm sure he'll do a great job!

He and the current players are who I feel the worst about here... Brian most likely thought he was the Jimbo Fisher of RPI -- the head coach in waiting for the current coach to retire.  Every indication was that Brian was given certain assurances in his pathway back to RPI only to watch those assurances implode.  It's an ugly situation, no doubt.

As I stated earlier, Tim Landis has other reasons beyond a D1 jaunt by RPI to become Head Coach -- and honestly, it's kind of fool-hearted by RPI to assume, if D1 is the ultimate destination for the program, Tim would be the man to carry them there.  To me, he seems like someone who wants a chance to prove himself for a real D1 opportunity instead of one in which he guides a program for 5-10 years to the next level.  He's of an age that suggests he wants to take a couple years, succeed, and bounce to a legit D1 program.  Personally, I couldn't blame him when looking at the landscape, but maybe I'm wrong.

Either way, though, he does deserve a chance to prove himself, as much as I want to condemn this whole D1-uprising possibility by RPI.  No matter what, he has to succeed and progress for this scenario to warrant a long-term hire of him, and, for the current players' sake, I hope a lot that he proves himself worthy of respect and success since those players may have been sold on something else on their way into RPI in the first place.  This is a tough scenario, no doubt, but as a fan of Liberty League football generally, I hope we see a collective effort here to propel RPI as a contender early and often -- else, this could be an ugly two or three years while things shake out.

[lewdogg11]

I think it's funny how people think 'things will get ugly'...  I mean, these kids HAD to have known that Coach King wasn't going to be there forever.  He told us in 2000 that it was his last year for crying out loud.  As far as Surace goes, I think he did get screwed over a bit and I think it was very honorable of him to stick around like he did.  But I think there is more to it and the curve ball he was thrown maybe came from a different direction than the Administration.

That said, I still haven't heard or found any 'official announcement'.  The only thing that I did find outside of this message board was a quote from A11offense.com:

"The A-11 Offense is unique and refreshing. It has a chance to revolutionize the way offensive football is played."

Tim Landis
Head Football Coach (NCAA)
Rensselaer (RPI) University, NY

http://a11feedback.blogspot.com/

Interesting thing here is the school name...........

[Frank Rossi]

"The A-11 Offense is unique and refreshing. It has a chance to revolutionize the way offensive football is played."

Tim Landis
Head Football Coach (NCAA)
Rensselaer (RPI) University, NY

http://a11feedback.blogspot.com/

Interesting thing here is the school name...........

If you look at the cached version from March 14, 2011, it looks a little different:

"The A-11 Offense is unique and refreshing. It has a chance to revolutionize the way offensive football is played."

Tim Landis
Offensive Coordinator (NCAA)
San Jose State University, CA

Odd how that changed without an official announcement.

Anyway, whether or not the players expected Coach King to leave isn't the question.  I think a safe assumption is that when a coach over 22 seasons wins 71.8% of his games, there's no reason to completely obliterate a coaching staff and hire externally initially when the coach decides to leave.  It's the "If it ain't broke, don't fix it" mentality, and I think 30- and 40-year olds would have the same mentality, let alone 20-year olds.

Even as a casual spectator of this stuff, I sort of ask the question, "Who's running that ship at RPI?"  I've rarely seen a college president get so involved in the HIRING of a football coach at ANY level.  It's clear from EVERY person who has discussed this topic with me that the president had a certain edict going into the interview and selection process -- unlike most situations in which the president only steps in to affirm a committee's choice once it's ready to be made.  And again, that's probably what a current player is thinking as well -- "Why is the administration getting SO involved in a coaching hire at the Div. III level?  Don't they care about how we feel about the future since, for the next 2-3 years, WE ARE that future of RPI Football?"

So when you read something like this: 

"What Joe King accomplished as the football coach at Rensselaer is nothing short of astounding," said Rensselaer athletics director Jim Knowlton. "He has given tremendously to the Institute and our student-athletes. Clearly RPI athletics would not be the same without his passion and dedication and we are forever thankful."

Don't you wonder why the heck the process just two months later completely obliterated the internals of the system that's been successfully in place for the last 22 years?

[dlippiel]

"The A-11 Offense is unique and refreshing. It has a chance to revolutionize the way offensive football is played."

Tim Landis
Head Football Coach (NCAA)
Rensselaer (RPI) University, NY

http://a11feedback.blogspot.com/

Interesting thing here is the school name...........

If you look at the cached version from March 14, 2011, it looks a little different:

"The A-11 Offense is unique and refreshing. It has a chance to revolutionize the way offensive football is played."

Tim Landis
Offensive Coordinator (NCAA)
San Jose State University, CA

Odd how that changed without an official announcement.

Anyway, whether or not the players expected Coach King to leave isn't the question.  I think a safe assumption is that when a coach over 22 seasons wins 71.8% of his games, there's no reason to completely obliterate a coaching staff and hire externally initially when the coach decides to leave.  It's the "If it ain't broke, don't fix it" mentality, and I think 30- and 40-year olds would have the same mentality, let alone 20-year olds.

Even as a casual spectator of this stuff, I sort of ask the question, "Who's running that ship at RPI?"  I've rarely seen a college president get so involved in the HIRING of a football coach at ANY level.  It's clear from EVERY person who has discussed this topic with me that the president had a certain edict going into the interview and selection process -- unlike most situations in which the president only steps in to affirm a committee's choice once it's ready to be made.  And again, that's probably what a current player is thinking as well -- "Why is the administration getting SO involved in a coaching hire at the Div. III level?  Don't they care about how we feel about the future since, for the next 2-3 years, WE ARE that future of RPI Football?"

So when you read something like this: 

"What Joe King accomplished as the football coach at Rensselaer is nothing short vel bof astounding," said Rensselaer athletics director Jim Knowlton. "He has given tremendously to the Institute and our student-athletes. Clearly RPI athletics would not be the same without his passion and dedication and we are forever thankful."

Don't you wonder why the heck the process just two months later completely obliterated the internals of the system that's been successfully in place for the last 22 years?

Yeah but Frank dlip doesn't think it so foreign an idea for a new coach on the block at any level to want to clean house and hire a new staff. Maybe this is not as common at the D3 level but it doesn't seem all that out of whack to dlip. Either way this seems like a solid guy to lead the engineers and dlip shares your thoughts of hoping he has luck and gets RPI back into the national picture...for the LL's sake

[Frank Rossi]

Dlip, I'm holding your feet to the fire on this one:  what aspect of what we know makes you so confident about Landis?  There are rumblings I've heard that he isn't a "popular choice" in RPI circles, so maybe you can put together a good case to rest their nerves...

[lewdogg11]

Dlip, I'm holding your feet to the fire on this one:  what aspect of what we know makes you so confident about Landis?  There are rumblings I've heard that he isn't a "popular choice" in RPI circles, so maybe you can put together a good case to rest their nerves...

One thing that can put any grumbling to bed will be winning, and not beating Endicott by 3, then losing to Utica, WPI, St. Lawrence, and St. John Fisher(by 41!!!). 

All I want is a winner and i'm happy to give this coach and his staff the chance to prove themselves.  Just looking at RPI's records over the past few years, while some records were pretty good, some of their losses are simply unacceptable.  It makes you think that the talent is definitely there and they may have missed some opportunities to do something special.

Let's jump in the Delorean for a minute...

In 2006, RPI finishes 7-3 with losses to 8-2 Hobart(Acceptable), 5-4 St. Lawrence, and 7-4 Rochester, and then beats 7-3 Union and blows out a 9-2 Cortland team to end the year. 

In 2007, RPI has a chance at an undefeated season starting 7-0, then loses to 6-5 Rochester resulting in a tougher playoff draw against TCNJ and losing a game that was in the bag and SHOULD have been won minus some poor decisions.

In 2008, they nearly have an identical season to 2007 starting 7-0, but finishing the season with back to back losses to Hobart and 3-7 MMA???  MMA???  Really?  With a playoff bid on the line?  Really?  Then they somehow beat a pretty good Alfred team in the ECACs?  Makes no sense.

2009 was a changing of the guard.  New QB, new Defense, lots of new faces.  They lost to the top 4 teams in the LL but looked pretty bad in just about every win that year.  This is the one year that kinda makes any sense, because it is expected from time to time.

And finally last year, they were good enough to beat Hobart, Rochester, and a damn good Alfred team(that happened to give Mount Union a pretty good run(for a half atleast)), but lose to a 5-6 St. Lawrence, 3-7 WPI, 5-5 Utica, and then an embarrassing 41 point loss to a pretty good Fisher team.

To me, the past few years show me that they were pretty loaded with talent, won a lot of 'big' games, and stumbled in quite a few 'not so big' games.  They have been a classic model of inconsistency.  The LL isn't the SEC where you play a tough team every week.  Preparation and coaching are the equalizer in those games that you shouldn't lose.

I guess time will tell if they are able to get that consistency under the new regime.  I surely hope so, because talent-wise, facility-wise, history-wise, experience-wise, etc, etc, etc, they should win many of the games mentioned above.