FB: Liberty League

[Frank Rossi]

11/12:  8 x first round playoff games (top 4 seeds from each region get a bye)
11/19:  16 x second round playoff games
11/26:  8 x "Sweet 16" games
12/3:   4 x "Quarterfinal" games
12/10:  2 Semi-Final games
12/17:  Stagg Bowl

Count back 11 Saturdays from 11/12 -- it lands you in August.  There's no way we have room to do this calendar-wise, and schools wouldn't accept the lack of a bye week/extra week of preseason trade-off.

[pumkinattack]

Hobart made it in 2007 at 7-2.  The two losses were in OT to a playoff bound Dickinson squad and a 3pt loss to LL champ RPI in a back and forth game.  That season also included wins over CMU (6-4 that year, so a + win for playoff purposes), Union and laying a smackdown on Alfred when they were ranked like 11th or 12th by D3.  That was a case of a two loss team being rewarded for playing a tough schedule.   

[Frank Rossi]

Hobart made it in 2007 at 7-2.  The two losses were in OT to a playoff bound Dickinson squad and a 3pt loss to LL champ RPI in a back and forth game.  That season also included wins over CMU (6-4 that year, so a + win for playoff purposes), Union and laying a smackdown on Alfred when they were ranked like 11th or 12th by D3.  That was a case of a two loss team being rewarded for playing a tough schedule.

Let's go back to my original question for Pat -- did any two-loss team get selected over remaining one-loss teams in generally strong conferences in either of those years?

[Yanks 99]

11/12:  8 x first round playoff games (top 4 seeds from each region get a bye)
11/19:  16 x second round playoff games
11/26:  8 x "Sweet 16" games
12/3:   4 x "Quarterfinal" games
12/10:  2 Semi-Final games
12/17:  Stagg Bowl

Count back 11 Saturdays from 11/12 -- it lands you in August.  There's no way we have room to do this calendar-wise, and schools wouldn't accept the lack of a bye week/extra week of preseason trade-off.

Maybe some schools wouldn't...but some schools I am sure would.  Either way...9/3/11 to 11/5/11 gives you 10 weeks to decide what you (the school and football team) want to do with your season...9 games with one bye week, 10 straight games and no bye weeks, or "possibly" starting the last week of August and therefore having 11 weeks to decide what a team should do.  You cannot just say the calendar isn't doable.  For D3 football, the NCAA used to only take 8 teams total for their playoffs (albeit a long time ago).  Things change...situations change...just because it might be hard to put everything together, doesn't mean they shouldn't try.

Personally, I would substitute a potential early season week 1 game (or a non league game) and even play nine total games to have the opportunity to open up the playoffs to 48 teams to strengthen the overall NCAA Playoff field, while keeping the current crop of League Champ (Pool A) bids.

[Frank Rossi]

11/12:  8 x first round playoff games (top 4 seeds from each region get a bye)
11/19:  16 x second round playoff games
11/26:  8 x "Sweet 16" games
12/3:   4 x "Quarterfinal" games
12/10:  2 Semi-Final games
12/17:  Stagg Bowl

Count back 11 Saturdays from 11/12 -- it lands you in August.  There's no way we have room to do this calendar-wise, and schools wouldn't accept the lack of a bye week/extra week of preseason trade-off.

Maybe some schools wouldn't...but some schools I am sure would.  Either way...9/3/11 to 11/5/11 gives you 10 weeks to decide what you (the school and football team) want to do with your season...9 games with one bye week, 10 straight games and no bye weeks, or "possibly" starting the last week of August and therefore having 11 weeks to decide what a team should do.  You cannot just say the calendar isn't doable.  For D3 football, the NCAA used to only take 8 teams total for their playoffs (albeit a long time ago).  Things change...situations change...just because it might be hard to put everything together, doesn't mean they shouldn't try.

Personally, I would substitute a potential early season week 1 game (or a non league game) and even play nine total games to have the opportunity to open up the playoffs to 48 teams to strengthen the overall NCAA Playoff field, while keeping the current crop of League Champ (Pool A) bids.

I'm not the one saying it per se.  The NCAA and member schools have said it.

[EDIT: By the way, there's one other issue.  The access ratio to be maintained under the NCAA's rules is 7.00/1, or as close to it as possible.  We currently have 239 teams / 7.00 = 34.14.  The only way we get to 48 is if we gain 97 teams or so.  The NCAA has had imbalanced brackets in other sports, like Men's Basketball having a 61-team tournament in D3 in order to keep the 7.00/1 ratio as much as possible.]

[Yanks 99]

11/12:  8 x first round playoff games (top 4 seeds from each region get a bye)
11/19:  16 x second round playoff games
11/26:  8 x "Sweet 16" games
12/3:   4 x "Quarterfinal" games
12/10:  2 Semi-Final games
12/17:  Stagg Bowl

Count back 11 Saturdays from 11/12 -- it lands you in August.  There's no way we have room to do this calendar-wise, and schools wouldn't accept the lack of a bye week/extra week of preseason trade-off.

Maybe some schools wouldn't...but some schools I am sure would.  Either way...9/3/11 to 11/5/11 gives you 10 weeks to decide what you (the school and football team) want to do with your season...9 games with one bye week, 10 straight games and no bye weeks, or "possibly" starting the last week of August and therefore having 11 weeks to decide what a team should do.  You cannot just say the calendar isn't doable.  For D3 football, the NCAA used to only take 8 teams total for their playoffs (albeit a long time ago).  Things change...situations change...just because it might be hard to put everything together, doesn't mean they shouldn't try.

Personally, I would substitute a potential early season week 1 game (or a non league game) and even play nine total games to have the opportunity to open up the playoffs to 48 teams to strengthen the overall NCAA Playoff field, while keeping the current crop of League Champ (Pool A) bids.

I'm not the one saying it per se.  The NCAA and member schools have said it.

It doesn't mean they couldn't/wouldn't change their minds, especially if the member schools said "let's look into this" because of the possibility of exanding the playoff field.

That is my only point...this could work.  You would have to have buy in at a large level, but none of this is earth shattering stuff.  The same thing needed to happen at some point when they expanded the field from 8 teams all the way up to 32 teams for the playoffs.  Or when they introduced league champion Pool A bids.  Someone along the way, without question, said "there's no way we have room to do this calendar-wise" or we won't "accept the lack of a bye week/extra week of preseason trade-off".  Yet, it still changed...

[Frank Rossi]

It doesn't mean they couldn't/wouldn't change their minds, especially if the member schools said "let's look into this" because of the possibility of exanding the playoff field.

That is my only point...this could work.  You would have to have buy in at a large level, but none of this is earth shattering stuff.  The same thing needed to happen at some point when they expanded the field from 8 teams all the way up to 32 teams for the playoffs.  Or when they introduced league champion Pool A bids.  Someone along the way, without question, said "there's no way we have room to do this calendar-wise" or we won't "accept the lack of a bye week/extra week of preseason trade-off".  Yet, it still changed...

You might have missed my edit -- I think it's important to recognize this other issue in your idea:

"[EDIT: By the way, there's one other issue.  The access ratio to be maintained under the NCAA's rules is 7.00/1, or as close to it as possible.  We currently have 239 teams / 7.00 = 34.14.  The only way we get to 48 is if we gain 97 teams or so.  The NCAA has had imbalanced brackets in other sports, like Men's Basketball having a 61-team tournament in D3 in order to keep the 7.00/1 ratio as much as possible.]"

[Yanks 99]

It doesn't mean they couldn't/wouldn't change their minds, especially if the member schools said "let's look into this" because of the possibility of exanding the playoff field.

That is my only point...this could work.  You would have to have buy in at a large level, but none of this is earth shattering stuff.  The same thing needed to happen at some point when they expanded the field from 8 teams all the way up to 32 teams for the playoffs.  Or when they introduced league champion Pool A bids.  Someone along the way, without question, said "there's no way we have room to do this calendar-wise" or we won't "accept the lack of a bye week/extra week of preseason trade-off".  Yet, it still changed...

You might have missed my edit -- I think it's important to recognize this other issue in your idea:

"[EDIT: By the way, there's one other issue.  The access ratio to be maintained under the NCAA's rules is 7.00/1, or as close to it as possible.  We currently have 239 teams / 7.00 = 34.14.  The only way we get to 48 is if we gain 97 teams or so.  The NCAA has had imbalanced brackets in other sports, like Men's Basketball having a 61-team tournament in D3 in order to keep the 7.00/1 ratio as much as possible.]"

Fair enough...but that doesn't seem like it would be that difficult to change, alter, or ultimately ignore for the good of the sport and the overall tournament.  Things can change... like in 1975 when the NCAA D3 playoff field expanded from 4 teams to 8 teams...or in 1985 when it went from 8 teams to 16 teams...or finally to 32 teams in 1999.

If that rule you mentioned above is for all sports at every level (and I am presuming it is), then the NCAA breaks it every single year during March Madness...as there are 345 Divison I basketball teams.  Using those metrics, only 49 or 50 teams should make the tournmemnt...yet we are now at 68 teams total.  That doesn't sound like they keeping close to the spirit of the rule of keeping it to "as close to the ratio as possible".

Maybe they won't change it...but it doesn't mean they can't.  I hope they do...but again, when is the last time the NCAA made any sense in any of their decisions.

[Frank Rossi]

It doesn't mean they couldn't/wouldn't change their minds, especially if the member schools said "let's look into this" because of the possibility of exanding the playoff field.

That is my only point...this could work.  You would have to have buy in at a large level, but none of this is earth shattering stuff.  The same thing needed to happen at some point when they expanded the field from 8 teams all the way up to 32 teams for the playoffs.  Or when they introduced league champion Pool A bids.  Someone along the way, without question, said "there's no way we have room to do this calendar-wise" or we won't "accept the lack of a bye week/extra week of preseason trade-off".  Yet, it still changed...

You might have missed my edit -- I think it's important to recognize this other issue in your idea:

"[EDIT: By the way, there's one other issue.  The access ratio to be maintained under the NCAA's rules is 7.00/1, or as close to it as possible.  We currently have 239 teams / 7.00 = 34.14.  The only way we get to 48 is if we gain 97 teams or so.  The NCAA has had imbalanced brackets in other sports, like Men's Basketball having a 61-team tournament in D3 in order to keep the 7.00/1 ratio as much as possible.]"

Fair enough...but that doesn't seem like it would be that difficult to change, alter, or ultimately ignore for the good of the sport and the overall tournament.  Things can change... like in 1975 when the NCAA D3 playoff field expanded from 4 teams to 8 teams...or in 1985 when it went from 8 teams to 16 teams...or finally to 32 teams in 1999.

If that rule you mentioned above is for all sports at every level (and I am presuming it is), then the NCAA breaks it every single year during March Madness...as there are 345 Divison I basketball teams.  Using those metrics, only 49 or 50 teams should make the tournmemnt...yet we are now at 68 teams total.  That doesn't sound like they keeping close to the spirit of the rule of keeping it to "as close to the ratio as possible".

Maybe they won't change it...but it doesn't mean they can't.  I hope they do...but again, when is the last time the NCAA made any sense in any of their decisions.

From my understanding, it's a D3 access ratio (D2 has an access ratio, but I'm unsure if it is consistent with D3's).  D1 does not -- although, note this list from Wikipedia -- they did attempt to maintain some sort of ratio in the basketball tournament in the 1980s before jumping to 64 teams:

1983: 52 teams (four play-in games before the tournament)
1984: 53 teams (five play-in games before the tournament)
1985–2000: 64 teams
2001–2010: 65 teams (with an opening round game to determine whether the 64th or 65th team plays in the first round)
2011–present: 68 teams (four play-in games in the first round before all remaining teams compete in the second round)

[dlippiel]

Tomorrow the Union College Football Dutchmen welcome the Hobart Statesmen to Frank Bailey field for a 1pm kickoff. Both teams head into the contest with some momentum and zero losses in conference play (Union 2-0, Hobart 1-0). Hobart seems posied to steamroll into Schenectady and make it clear that they are indeed the best team in the LL this year. The Statesmen come in with wins over the likes of Dickinson, SJF, and SLU (defending LL champ). The win over SJF, at SJF, has turned heads, and given some LL fans hope that the LL may, for the first time in two years, send a decent league champ to the tourney.

Hobart's offense comes into the game avg a hair over 37 points per game and only giving up a small number in 9.7 ppg. On offense the Statesmen feature QB Nick Strang (48-80-2) who has a combined 592 yards through the air with 7TDs to go along with that impressive yardage. On the ground they are lead by Steven Webb (180 net yards) and following close by is Bobby Dougherty and QB Nick Strang who have 145 and 128 net yards both with two TDs a piece. Alex Furtado isn't far behind with a net of 124 yards and two TDs as well. This well balanced offense tore apart SJF and will look to do the same to Union's defense tomorrow.

...More to come have to put the daughter to bed 

[Mr. Ypsi]

In terms of 2-loss pool C teams, don't forget Wheaton in 2008, who made the committee look good by winning the North before falling to UMU in the national semis.

As far as whether any 1-loss teams were bypassed in selecting these 2-loss teams, I can't recall.

[mattvsmith]

Tomorrow the Union College Football Dutchmen welcome the Hobart Statesmen to Frank Bailey field for a 1pm kickoff. Both teams head into the contest with some momentum and zero losses in conference play (Union 2-0, Hobart 1-0). Hobart seems posied to steamroll into Schenectady and make it clear that they are indeed the best team in the LL this year. The Statesmen come in with wins over the likes of Dickinson, SJF, and SLU (defending LL champ). The win over SJF, at SJF, has turned heads, and given some LL fans hope that the LL may, for the first time in two years, send a decent league champ to the tourney.

Hobart's offense comes into the game avg a hair over 37 points per game and only giving up a small number in 9.7 ppg. On offense the Statesmen feature QB Nick Strang (48-80-2) who has a combined 592 yards through the air with 7TDs to go along with that impressive yardage. On the ground they are lead by Steven Webb (180 net yards) and following close by is Bobby Dougherty and QB Nick Strang who have 145 and 128 net yards both with two TDs a piece. Alex Furtado isn't far behind with a net of 124 yards and two TDs as well. This well balanced offense tore apart SJF and will look to do the same to Union's defense tomorrow.

...More to come have to put the daughter to bed 

Thanks for the notice, dlip. Obviously The Rev wants Hobart to win, but The Rev also hopes that Union plays well and that the game is both challenging and gratifying for everyone involved (fans included).

The bummer for The Rev is that the game won't start until 2 am, Korea Time. The Rev has been plagued by insomnia lately, so maybe this is God's way of telling The Rev, "Stay awake, this is going to be a barn burner."

[dlippiel]

con't fom last night:

Defensively Hobart has been pretty impressive thus far limiting it's opponents to a combined 434 yards on 104 attempts on the ground (3.4 avg) and 300 yards through the air with 77 attempts. On the flip side Bart has thrown the ball 82 times and gained a combined 604 yards. They have slightly doubled their opponents output.

On the flip side the Dutchmen have rushed for a combined 709 yards on 177 attempts (avg 4 yds per rush) and passed for an impressive 1337 yards on 136 attempts (avg 9.8 yards per pass and 16.5 per catch). Union has a combined 2046 yards of offense this season. Obviously this is Union's strong suit. Union's issues on defense are no secret with the unit having given up 732 yards on the ground and 1164 yards through the air. The secondary has struggled all year defending the pass.

Overall thoughts: This is a HUGE game for both teams. For Hobart to get into the tourney, at least to dlip, with an 8 game schedule, they must win the LL, even with the impressive win over SJF. On the flip side for Union this game could solidify their return to respectability and hold on first place in the LL. It has been a tough start for Union, a team that has showed a lot of heart and a no quit attitude after dropping it's frist three OOC contests. Even the defense, who is obviously stuggling has not given up and has worked very hard to improve. Even though the product hasn't really improved on D for Union, the players work ethic goes unquestioned by dlip. If Union wins it is through big plays in the air. However, the Dutchmen must set this up by running the ball effectively keeping Bart's D on it's toes. If Union goes one dimensional the W will get that much harder to get.


Prediction: Hobart Statesmen-45 Union College Football Dutchmen-21

Nick Strang and company will score consistently against the Union D. However, this one will be interesting for awhile, but the Union D will not be able to contain Bart's offense thorughout the day. Justin Gallo and Drew Connelly will be dangerous as always but dlip expects Coach Cragg to double Justin all day long (if he doesn't he is crazy) and focus his D on limiting the standout WR to short catches with over the top deep coverage. The telltale statistic for the day; Hobart is 14-17 inside the red zone (82%), they will be in the red zone often today.

Let's go Union prove dlip wrong!!!!!!!!

[Knightstalker]

RIP Al Davis.
http://www.cnn.com/2011/10/08/sport/nfl-raiders-davis/index.html?hpt=hp_t1

[mattvsmith]

dlip said:

Prediction: Hobart Statesmen-45 Union College Football Dutchmen-21

dlip, your predictive powers are unbelievable! Real final score: Hobart 41 - Union 24

The Rev did not stay up to listen to the game, but checked the score first thing this morning. (currently 9:32 am, Korea time)