FB: Liberty League

[Frank Rossi]

I guess it all is going to depend on how they want to weight primary vs secondary or tertiary criteria.  If a Fitchburg or somebody from New England gets one because they overweight SOS blindly then you can make the case for an MMA who's only loss is to a top 15 Hobart .  If the pool Cs end up going to stronger candidates where other criteria push them ahead I'm ok with MMA not getting one.  Even the fact that were talking about if MMAs OOC opponents from the New England leagues and the CC win out sort of proves that just simply laying it all of a numerical OOC is problematic, but as I said, I don't really know if they're playoff caliber, but there resume would be to win against everyone except a very good and highly regarded nationally team.  Sort of fits the mold of what pool C is supposed to be about I guess.  One where you could make the case that without a semi elite(Im using my words about Hobart carefully) they would win their league.

I don't think any East team would have a better W/L record if MMA goes 7-1 -- so it will come down strictly to SOS perceptions in the East and nationally.  Here's the current standings in the East:


 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

Team	Over. W/L	Over. Win%		Conf. W/L	Conf. Win%
Gallaudet	7-0	1.000		4-0	1.000
Hobart	6-0	1.000		4-0	1.000
Framingham   State	6-1	0.857		5-0	1.000
Lebanon Valley	6-1	0.857		5-1	0.833
Ithaca	6-1	0.857		4-1	0.800
Merchant   Marine	4-1	0.800		1-1	0.500
Endicott	5-2	0.714		4-0	1.000
Salve Regina	5-2	0.714		4-0	1.000
Salisbury	5-2	0.714		4-0	1.000
Lycoming	5-2	0.714		5-1	0.833
Widener	5-2	0.714		5-1	0.833
Alfred	5-2	0.714		3-1	0.750
Rowan	5-2	0.714		3-1	0.750
Rochester	5-2	0.714		3-1	0.750
St. Lawrence	5-2	0.714		3-1	0.750
Western   Connecticut	5-2	0.714		4-2	0.667
Delaware   Valley	5-2	0.714		4-2	0.667
St. John   Fisher	5-2	0.714		2-2	0.500
MIT	4-2	0.667		2-2	0.500
Bridgewater   State	5-3	0.625		4-2	0.667
Cortland State	4-3	0.571		4-1	0.800
Husson	4-3	0.571		3-1	0.750
Mount Ida	4-3	0.571		3-1	0.750
Norwich	4-3	0.571		3-1	0.750
Brockport   State	4-3	0.571		3-1	0.750
TCNJ	4-3	0.571		3-1	0.750
King's	4-3	0.571		4-2	0.667
Westfield   State	4-3	0.571		3-2	0.600
Albright	4-3	0.571		3-3	0.500
Massachusetts   Maritime	4-3	0.571		2-3	0.400
Hartwick	4-3	0.571		1-3	0.250
Springfield	4-3	0.571		1-3	0.250
Buffalo State	4-4	0.500		2-3	0.400
SUNY-Maritime	3-4	0.429		3-1	0.750
Morrisville   State	3-4	0.429		2-2	0.500
Mass-Dartmouth	3-4	0.429		3-3	0.500
Fitchburg   State	3-4	0.429		2-3	0.400
Stevenson	3-4	0.429		2-4	0.333
Wilkes	3-4	0.429		2-4	0.333
Utica	3-4	0.429		1-3	0.250
Worcester State	3-4	0.429		1-4	0.200
RPI	3-4	0.429		0-4	0.000
Coast Guard	3-5	0.375		3-2	0.600
William   Paterson	3-5	0.375		1-4	0.200
Curry	2-4	0.333		2-2	0.500
Union	2-5	0.286		2-2	0.500
Western   New England	2-5	0.286		1-3	0.250
Montclair   State	2-5	0.286		1-3	0.250
WPI	2-5	0.286		1-3	0.250
Alfred State	1-4	0.200		0-0	0.000
Maine Maritime	1-5	0.167		1-3	0.250
Anna Maria	1-6	0.143		0-4	0.000
Becker	1-6	0.143		0-4	0.000
Castleton   State	1-6	0.143		0-4	0.000
Nichols	1-6	0.143		0-5	0.000
Frostburg   State	1-6	0.143		0-4	0.000
Kean	1-6	0.143		0-4	0.000
Plymouth State	1-6	0.143		0-5	0.000
FDU-Florham	1-6	0.143		0-6	0.000
Misericordia	0-7	0.000		0-6	0.000

[pumkinattack]

That's been my point for a few years .  The secret final RRO gives the committee all the latitude they need to do more or less what they want (and then point to the listed criteria and claim no responsibility for the picks as if their hands were completely tied by and absolute and completely explicit framework).

Forgot about LVC, but they still have some tough games left.

[ECoastFootball]

That being said, any loss by Hobart and they may be shipped to a Linfield, MUC or UMHB in the first round.  While they will hopefully face one of them at some point, I'd prefer it be after a couple of rounds of playoff opponents personally.

I'm assuming this is tongue-in-cheek? Hobart is undefeated and ranked 7th in the country, they could lose 2 games and not get shipped out of region as an 8 seed. The bottom seed will be the ECFC champ and the 6 and 7 seed will be the NEFC champ and Framingham if they get a pool C. If Hobart wins out what would stop them from a 2 seed?

[WhittFoot]

Been hearing a lot about Hobart's Left Tackle Ali Marpet, the best tackle in LL? Country? Has anybody seen him play this year and is he as dominate as people have been saying? I do remember him last year against us and he was as good as advertised. Also listed as a junior captain for the statesman.

[D3viewer]

Been hearing a lot about Hobart's Left Tackle Ali Marpet, the best tackle in LL? Country? Has anybody seen him play this year and is he as dominate as people have been saying? I do remember him last year against us and he was as good as advertised. Also listed as a junior captain for the statesman.

Brockport's Bruce Doyle is a Sr 6-5 305. I guess NFL scouts have been coming in regularly to check him out. He is their RT..which is bit strange..if he is possible NFL caliber..your best is usually your LT. Other than that..I haven't watched enough to compare. Just pointing out  another Upstate D3 guy who seems pretty good.

[Frank Rossi]

Been hearing a lot about Hobart's Left Tackle Ali Marpet, the best tackle in LL? Country? Has anybody seen him play this year and is he as dominate as people have been saying? I do remember him last year against us and he was as good as advertised. Also listed as a junior captain for the statesman.

I think you might have, ummmm, misspelled your handle... Since the team that faced Hobart last season was Wittenberg.  You might want to ask iamhuge about talent assessment on these message boards...

[Frank Rossi]

That being said, any loss by Hobart and they may be shipped to a Linfield, MUC or UMHB in the first round.  While they will hopefully face one of them at some point, I'd prefer it be after a couple of rounds of playoff opponents personally.

I'm assuming this is tongue-in-cheek? Hobart is undefeated and ranked 7th in the country, they could lose 2 games and not get shipped out of region as an 8 seed. The bottom seed will be the ECFC champ and the 6 and 7 seed will be the NEFC champ and Framingham if they get a pool C. If Hobart wins out what would stop them from a 2 seed?

A loss by Hobart would likely allow the team to remain as a 3 or 4 seed based on the paucity of 0- and 1-loss teams left in the East (although, remember, teams from other regions could be shifted into the bracket -- and seemingly would have to be to fill the eight slots this year).  A two-loss Hobart would not host in all likelihood.  Our D3football.com Top 25 Poll is not used by the Committee, and Hobart's SOS (which will be probably in the low 50s when the season ends unless the OOC teams they played begin to win) and nine-game schedule would work against the team.  Also, two losses by Hobart now would likely not even allow the team to make the playoffs under current circumstances in the LL and in Pool C nationally.

[Bombers798891]

That being said, any loss by Hobart and they may be shipped to a Linfield, MUC or UMHB in the first round.  While they will hopefully face one of them at some point, I'd prefer it be after a couple of rounds of playoff opponents personally.

I'm assuming this is tongue-in-cheek? Hobart is undefeated and ranked 7th in the country, they could lose 2 games and not get shipped out of region as an 8 seed. The bottom seed will be the ECFC champ and the 6 and 7 seed will be the NEFC champ and Framingham if they get a pool C. If Hobart wins out what would stop them from a 2 seed?

A loss by Hobart would likely allow the team to remain as a 3 or 4 seed based on the paucity of 0- and 1-loss teams left in the East (although, remember, teams from other regions could be shifted into the bracket -- and seemingly would have to be to fill the eight slots this year).  A two-loss Hobart would not host in all likelihood.  Our D3football.com Top 25 Poll is not used by the Committee, and Hobart's SOS (which will be probably in the low 50s when the season ends unless the OOC teams they played begin to win) and nine-game schedule would work against the team.  Also, two losses by Hobart now would likely not even allow the team to make the playoffs under current circumstances in the LL and in Pool C nationally.

There's no way a one-loss Hobart would be an 8 seed, Frank's right. Everyone in the NJAC has two losses, and the likely E8 champ has two as well. Even if Ithaca were to sneak in at say, 9-1 as the E8 champ, given their terrible OOC slate, I doubt would get ahead of Hobart (Moravian's probably going to go 1-9, Union could easily go 3-7, and Cortland would have at least four losses)

[WhittFoot]

Been hearing a lot about Hobart's Left Tackle Ali Marpet, the best tackle in LL? Country? Has anybody seen him play this year and is he as dominate as people have been saying? I do remember him last year against us and he was as good as advertised. Also listed as a junior captain for the statesman.

I think you might have, ummmm, misspelled your handle... Since the team that faced Hobart last season was Wittenberg.  You might want to ask iamhuge about talent assessment on these message boards...

Frank, I actually am from Whitehouse, OH where my son plays for Anthony Wayne high school, and my nephew actually graduated from Wittenberg last year and played DB. So I may have added an extra T to my name. But thanks for the knowledge.

[pumkinattack]

Market is part of an excellent overall line who works tremendously hard and is all business.  I don't know enough to compare nationally, but I think its fair to put him in some discussions.  For him to be a captain on this team as a jr (voted on by the team but blessed by the staff) does speak volumes.

On playoff seeding, see 2011.  No meaningful strength in or OOC and 9 game schedule and they were sent to Wesley in the first round.  Perhaps the team was less of a known quantity to the committe than compared with now, but that team was pretty close to this one and just blew a 3td lead in bizarre fashion to RPI.  Maybe they still get a decent seed, but insure wouldn't leave it up to the committee and want to test that theory.

[Frank Rossi]

On playoff seeding, see 2011.  No meaningful strength in or OOC and 9 game schedule and they were sent to Wesley in the first round.  Perhaps the team was less of a known quantity to the committe than compared with now, but that team was pretty close to this one and just blew a 3td lead in bizarre fashion to RPI.  Maybe they still get a decent seed, but insure wouldn't leave it up to the committee and want to test that theory.

In 2011, these existed:

Kean 9-1
WNE 10-1
Salisbury 9-1
DelVal 10-0
Hobart 7-1

With three weeks to go in 2013, these exist:

Gallaudet 7-0
Hobart 6-0
Framingham State 6-1
Lebanon Valley 6-1
Ithaca 6-1
Merchant Marine 4-1

Odds are low that the other five teams will all get by unscathed, and Hobart's playoff results in 2012 can be used to determine close issues in seeding.  In addition, they beat MMA and the last ECFC team that went undefeated was abused by Alfred and almost didn't even get in through Pool B.  One loss would not considerably devastate seeding this season for Hobart.

[pumkinattack]

I am more comfortable this year, but still, on paper an 8-1 Hobart isn't nearly as strong as I know they are.

That Hobart team would've beaten all of those teams in 2011.  Even with literally no kicking game (we were missing xp style FGs and went for it on 4th and goal many times including 3, I think, vs Wesley).

[Jonny Utah]

I am more comfortable this year, but still, on paper an 8-1 Hobart isn't nearly as strong as I know they are.

That Hobart team would've beaten all of those teams in 2011.  Even with literally no kicking game (we were missing xp style FGs and went for it on 4th and goal many times including 3, I think, vs Wesley).

I think what pumkinattack is trying to say is that he doesn't trust the NCAA with seedings, and I can't blame him.

[Frank Rossi]

I am more comfortable this year, but still, on paper an 8-1 Hobart isn't nearly as strong as I know they are.

That Hobart team would've beaten all of those teams in 2011.  Even with literally no kicking game (we were missing xp style FGs and went for it on 4th and goal many times including 3, I think, vs Wesley).

I think what pumkinattack is trying to say is that he doesn't trust the NCAA with seedings, and I can't blame him.

Let's not forget -- 7-1 did not help Hobart, especially when compared against 9-1 teams.  I can't very much blame the NCAA for what it did in 2011.  The only caveat obviously was the win vs. SJF, but there is no conclusive determination that can be made as to whether Hobart did any better or worse than SJF in the "seedings" per se because of the odd bracketing that year.  Again, though, my point is that an eight-game schedule did not help Hobart that year, and one wonders if the Committee didn't see some irony in scheduling Hobart at Wesley because of the whole schedule-ducking accusations in 2011.

[AUPepBand]

On playoff seeding, see 2011.  No meaningful strength in or OOC and 9 game schedule and they were sent to Wesley in the first round.  Perhaps the team was less of a known quantity to the committe than compared with now, but that team was pretty close to this one and just blew a 3td lead in bizarre fashion to RPI.  Maybe they still get a decent seed, but insure wouldn't leave it up to the committee and want to test that theory.

In 2011, these existed:

Kean 9-1
WNE 10-1
Salisbury 9-1
DelVal 10-0
Hobart 7-1

With three weeks to go in 2013, these exist:

Gallaudet 7-0
Hobart 6-0
Framingham State 6-1
Lebanon Valley 6-1
Ithaca 6-1
Merchant Marine 4-1

Odds are low that the other five teams will all get by unscathed, and Hobart's playoff results in 2012 can be used to determine close issues in seeding.  In addition, they beat MMA and the last ECFC team that went undefeated was abused by Alfred and almost didn't even get in through Pool B.  One loss would not considerably devastate seeding this season for Hobart.

Funny thing that year (2010), the ECFC champ was actually "seeded" #3 and was to HOST #6 Alfred (8-2 with losses to RPI and UR) but either hadn't filed paperwork or by some other technicality could not host the NCAAs, so the game was moved to Mayberry. It was 50-0 by halftime and some young fan of the undefeated ECFC champs didn't care much for AU's pep band, which played the Saxons' fight song twice after each TD. The lad was heard to say of the band, "They're not very good. They only know one song and I've never heard it before."

On Saxon Warriors!