FB: Liberty League

[UfanBill]

Gentlemen, My perspective on Union football...I played the game(at Union) I coached(at the youth level) and I have been a diehard "U" fan since the seventies.  The talent level at Union is not what it once was but it is more than sufficient to compete against and beat every team on their schedule. Why is this not happening? Mistakes,questionable schemes and play calling and poor fundamentals.  Dare I remind everyone that proper COACHING is the first requirement to correct these faults.  I do not question that coach Audino has the experience and qualifications to get things in order BUT over these last few seasons has he gotten it done?  Obviously NO.  I've gone from watching Union win games with talent,desire and execution. Now they're losing games...the talent and desire are still there but the execution...running the proper play, having the right "D", special team play and even conditioning...now it's often...Did I just see that? WTF... I'm not happy. Coach Audino must see it too. Last year I called for staff changes, now maybe a total re-do.  The primary job of a good coach is to prepare his team and give it the best chance to win. Not seeing that now.     

[PBR...]

It actually sounds like the whole new age 'everyone bats, no one strikes out, all games end in a tie' mentality may have been invented at Union College. Well done.

<somewhere in the depths of Charlestown, Union89 just threw something at the wall>

LMAO... well played LD!

[ITH radio]

Not sure I'd lump fisher in the expensive private school category but I haven't checked their (non FB) website in a while. I was under the impression they cost around 40/yr and a good portion of their student body are commuters, but maybe that's changed?

Regardless, I am not sure if talent is an issue. Eck threw for close to 2k yds, 17 TDs and 3 ints as a SO. Thomas is arguably the best overall RB in the league. Hayes at LB is a stud. Reynolds is a great WR and from Miami / So FL no less.

Main issue I have seen in Union's close losses is secondary play (guys getting behind the FS or last line of defense) and bad decisions at QB (leading to Eck getting benched). I know Frank points to scheduling as an issue but given the Dutchmen's struggles in the LL itself it's getting harder to make that argument.

I do like seeing RPI and SLU's resurgence but it's frustrating they dropped the games they did, especially the Norwich game (HTF did they then lose to Husson?!).

SC seems improved too. Really looking forward to seeing how they fare vs Hobart Saturday.

[Bombers798891]

Not sure I'd lump fisher in the expensive private school category but I haven't checked their (non FB) website in a while. I was under the impression they cost around 40/yr and a good portion of their student body are commuters, but maybe that's changed?

Regardless, I am not sure if talent is an issue. Eck threw for close to 2k yds, 17 TDs and 3 ints as a SO. Thomas is arguably the best overall RB in the league. Hayes at LB is a stud. Reynolds is a great WR and from Miami / So FL no less.

Sacks by Union since the start of 2012 season: 28
Sacks allowed by Union since start of 2012 season: 70

It always starts with line play.

[ITH radio]

Great  / very telling stat

[lewdogg11]

Curiosity got the best of me so I pulled some numbers for Tuition + Room and Board costs for some upstate private schools.(These are 2013-2014 figures so they are a little off from this year) 

Tough to look at this and tell me that Union College is the only one affected by rising tuition costs.  Yes there are some big differences when you look at Utica, SJF and Alfred, but those higher ones are relatively similar(WPI the obvious outlier - You have to pay extra to live in Worcester).

School Tuition + Room and Board WPI $69,942 RPI $58,060 Union $57,777 UR $57,708 SLU $57,565 Hobart $56,865 IC $53,864 Utica $45,218 SJF $38,810 Alfred $36,098

As a parent however, this scares the living daylights out of me.

[Jonny Utah]

Curiosity got the best of me so I pulled some numbers for Tuition + Room and Board costs for some upstate private schools.(These are 2013-2014 figures so they are a little off from this year) 

Tough to look at this and tell me that Union College is the only one affected by rising tuition costs.  Yes there are some big differences when you look at Utica, SJF and Alfred, but those higher ones are relatively similar(WPI the obvious outlier - You have to pay extra to live in Worcester).

School Tuition + Room and Board WPI $69,942 RPI $58,060 Union $57,777 UR $57,708 SLU $57,565 Hobart $56,865 IC $53,864 Utica $45,218 SJF $38,810 Alfred $36,098

As a parent however, this scares the living daylights out of me.

You need to look at financial aid though too.  I know schools like Hobart, Bates and Bowdoin give out a lot of money to those who can't afford it.  Not so sure of the other schools. 

[Bombers798891]

Curiosity got the best of me so I pulled some numbers for Tuition + Room and Board costs for some upstate private schools.(These are 2013-2014 figures so they are a little off from this year) 

Tough to look at this and tell me that Union College is the only one affected by rising tuition costs.  Yes there are some big differences when you look at Utica, SJF and Alfred, but those higher ones are relatively similar(WPI the obvious outlier - You have to pay extra to live in Worcester).

Not knowing anything about the financial aid packages these schools offer, there's another missing step that needs to be factored in, IMO: What is the quality of the degree programs football players are generally in at these schools? I mean, $53,000 for Ithaca's probably worth it if you are going into Physical Therapy, Music, or Communications. But if you're a business major? Not as rosy a proposition.

[lewdogg11]

Of course there are all kinds of factors that go into this, but generally speaking, a lot of these schools have similar barriers.  Of course there are differences in academic standards and financial aid packages etc etc, but Union is not in some unique situation that others aren't facing.  Bombers/JU, I thought $53,000 for Ithaca was shockingly high, but somehow they manage to be pretty darn good each year on the football field.  I was surprised to see Utica up where it is for cost, but they are an up and comer with a great coaching staff.  This debate has so many facets that you can argue back and forth, but it's just to show that some excuses from the Union camp just don't hold up.  Many of these schools in Upstate NY have the exact same challenges, some are just dealing with them a little better. 

I think Union has a huge advantage with their hockey program making them a name brand as well as some national exposure in some recent publications about the quality of the school and education.  All of that said, I think while they may have to work harder at it and they may not get ALL of the recruits they want, they're still landing a lot of talented players especially compared to their counterparts.

This season is a wash at this point, but seriously Union, please just go 0-7 in the LL every year, but win a GD OOC game please!

[ITH radio]

As an aside, I've been off and on these boards since about 2005. Hard to believe the LLPP is probably a day, if not hours, away from being surpassed as the busiest board in the East.

Torch is passed.

Re WPI and RPI - word is they get their kids out and into pretty high paying jobs, as far as recent grad salaries, etc go. That may also be the justification for dropping that amount of money up front. RPI has a HUGE endowment too so they may be offering up all sorts of aid as well. I do know that Hobart does give aid to roughly 70% of the students that attend, but the average amount is still pretty well below the total cost.

[ECoastFootball]

As an aside, I've been off and on these boards since about 2005. Hard to believe the LLPP is probably a day, if not hours, away from being surpassed as the busiest board in the East.

Torch is passed.

Re WPI and RPI - word is they get their kids out and into pretty high paying jobs, as far as recent grad salaries, etc go. That may also be the justification for dropping that amount of money up front. RPI has a HUGE endowment too so they may be offering up all sorts of aid as well. I do know that Hobart does give aid to roughly 70% of the students that attend, but the average amount is still pretty well below the total cost.

I know through a cousin who recently went to WPI to play a sport, they give great financial aid.

[lewdogg11]

As an aside, I've been off and on these boards since about 2005. Hard to believe the LLPP is probably a day, if not hours, away from being surpassed as the busiest board in the East.

Torch is passed.

Re WPI and RPI - word is they get their kids out and into pretty high paying jobs, as far as recent grad salaries, etc go. That may also be the justification for dropping that amount of money up front. RPI has a HUGE endowment too so they may be offering up all sorts of aid as well. I do know that Hobart does give aid to roughly 70% of the students that attend, but the average amount is still pretty well below the total cost.

RPI is very well endowed.

[D3viewer]

Some endowments are bigger than others.

[Doid23]

I sh*t you not, folks... I just pulled into my gym's parking lot -- there's a car here with NY plates: "IAMHUGE"

I can now die in peace.

I have actually met IAMHUGE in person, although I didn't know it at the time. I used to work in the Oil Industry, and he was/ may still be a trader for another oil company. One of the guys I work with now used to trade with him pretty frequently, and when I told him the history of IAMHUGE, he wasn't surprised at all. Said he was a decent enough guy, just out there with a lot of very strong opinions (there's a surprise).

I only wish that I had known that I was in the presence of a legend. Although he lives in NJ, so there must be another (shudder) IAMHUGE roaming around out there.

[Doid23]

Of course there are all kinds of factors that go into this, but generally speaking, a lot of these schools have similar barriers.  Of course there are differences in academic standards and financial aid packages etc etc, but Union is not in some unique situation that others aren't facing. 
I think Union has a huge advantage with their hockey program making them a name brand as well as some national exposure in some recent publications about the quality of the school and education. 

Yup. +1