FB: Liberty League

[jackson5]

Jackson, go back to your home on troll island. And maybe read the Hobart story that came out from some other angles. It was investigated properly. There were no charges. This was discussed a few months ago. Hobart has a great coach and a clean program. They had an unfortunate incident on campus where some people involved played football, it was investigated and it's in the past. If Union wants to tout their present time sh!tty coaching staff by bashing another conference member, I hope they can sleep better at night. Union sucks. More now than ever.

I've never seen someone get so defensive over something that "isn't an issue" before. So there's nothing wrong with NY times stories about alleged rapes on the campus involving football team. That's all you need to say, no need to stage boycotts and kill discussion.

And if none of it happened at Hobart and the announcer never addressed Hobart by name then what's the issue? You're the one making the Hobart connection.

[lewdogg11]

Jackson, go back to your home on troll island. And maybe read the Hobart story that came out from some other angles. It was investigated properly. There were no charges. This was discussed a few months ago. Hobart has a great coach and a clean program. They had an unfortunate incident on campus where some people involved played football, it was investigated and it's in the past. If Union wants to tout their present time sh!tty coaching staff by bashing another conference member, I hope they can sleep better at night. Union sucks. More now than ever.

I've never seen someone get so defensive over something that "isn't an issue" before. So there's nothing wrong with NY times stories about alleged rapes on the campus involving football team. That's all you need to say, no need to stage boycotts and kill discussion.

And if none of it happened at Hobart and the announcer never addressed Hobart by name then what's the issue? You're the one making the Hobart connection.

Go troll elsewhere. I have no time for you.

[jackson5]

Jackson, go back to your home on troll island. And maybe read the Hobart story that came out from some other angles. It was investigated properly. There were no charges. This was discussed a few months ago. Hobart has a great coach and a clean program. They had an unfortunate incident on campus where some people involved played football, it was investigated and it's in the past. If Union wants to tout their present time sh!tty coaching staff by bashing another conference member, I hope they can sleep better at night. Union sucks. More now than ever.

I've never seen someone get so defensive over something that "isn't an issue" before. So there's nothing wrong with NY times stories about alleged rapes on the campus involving football team. That's all you need to say, no need to stage boycotts and kill discussion.

And if none of it happened at Hobart and the announcer never addressed Hobart by name then what's the issue? You're the one making the Hobart connection.

Go troll elsewhere. I have no time for you.

I'm not trolling the only two buttburt about this is you and the other Hobart fan. No one else thought twice about the question. Probably because they aren't oversensitive and defensive about Hobart like you two are.

[jackson5]

Dlip's late...but better than never write up for Union/WNEC today:

www.dlipthedutchman.blogspot.com

In between all of the whining from the Hobart fans we missed this. Dlip congrats on predicting the game perfectly. WNE tried to run, got shut down so went to the air then rolled. Even almost got the score exactly right minus a couple points.

[dlippiel]

Dlip's late...but better than never write up for Union/WNEC today:

www.dlipthedutchman.blogspot.com

In between all of the whining from the Hobart fans we missed this. Dlip congrats on predicting the game perfectly. WNE tried to rub, got shut down so went to the air then rolled. Even almost got the score exactly right minus a couple points.

Thanks dude! It's one of those times Dlip wishes he was wrong. Congrats to WNEC on the W. They weathered the initial storm and then just completely took over. Best of luck on the remainder of the season. Dlip will be rooting for you guys within your league.

[jackson5]

Dlip's late...but better than never write up for Union/WNEC today:

www.dlipthedutchman.blogspot.com

In between all of the whining from the Hobart fans we missed this. Dlip congrats on predicting the game perfectly. WNE tried to rub, got shut down so went to the air then rolled. Even almost got the score exactly right minus a couple points.

Thanks dude! It's one of those times Dlip wishes he was wrong. Congrats to WNEC on the W. They weathered the initial storm and then just completely took over. Best of luck on the remainder of the season. Dlip will be rooting for you guys within your league.

Thanks. Its funny when WNe scored the 3rd TD we had to do a triple check at the scoreboard. It seemed like Union dominated yet somehow it was 20-7 WNE. Once they started airing the ball out it quickly turned into a golden bear affair.

And sorry for the "Its good for a Western New England First down!" Chant. But the PA announcer was way too excited to get a first down when Union was down 3 scores. I know its his job to get the fans involved, we just had to make sure it didn't happen for you.

I know this series was originally only a home and home and have no clue what the long term plans for the series are, but I wouldn't mind if the series is continued. If not you then hopefully WNE starts one with RPI who they have scrimmaged with in the past. WNE needs to get out of New England for both recruiting and reputation purposes. Albany isn't a hard trip to get to and helps them recruit more recruits from New York State.

[Boxer7806]

Dlip's late...but better than never write up for Union/WNEC today:

www.dlipthedutchman.blogspot.com

In between all of the whining from the Hobart fans we missed this. Dlip congrats on predicting the game perfectly. WNE tried to rub, got shut down so went to the air then rolled. Even almost got the score exactly right minus a couple points.

Thanks dude! It's one of those times Dlip wishes he was wrong. Congrats to WNEC on the W. They weathered the initial storm and then just completely took over. Best of luck on the remainder of the season. Dlip will be rooting for you guys within your league.

Thanks. Its funny when WNe scored the 3rd TD we had to do a triple check at the scoreboard. It seemed like Union dominated yet somehow it was 20-7 WNE. Once they started airing the ball out it quickly turned into a golden bear affair.

And sorry for the "Its good for a Western New England First down!" Chant. But the PA announcer was way too excited to get a first down when Union was down 3 scores. I know its his job to get the fans involved, we just had to make sure it didn't happen for you.

I know this series was originally only a home and home and have no clue what the long term plans for the series are, but I wouldn't mind if the series is continued. If not you then hopefully WNE starts one with RPI who they have scrimmaged with in the past. WNE needs to get out of New England for both recruiting and reputation purposes. Albany isn't a hard trip to get to and helps them recruit more recruits from New York State.

All NEFC/MASCAC schools should be doing this. The teams that have done it have established themselves as league contenders on a consistent basis now. Framingham, Bridgewater, Endicott, Salve, and WNEC come to my immediately and most can agree that these teams are consistently near the top. I think WestConn will continue to schedule up as well and I hope Coast Guard keeps doing so as well. I'm also a fan of both Framingham and Endicott because they have gone out and already played the favorites in the LL (EC vs Hobart) and NJAC (Fram. vs Rowan) and represented themselves alright. I believe those games for Fram., more than EC, have helped them forward this year. Its also good for the upper echelon schools of these other East schools to schedule NEFC/MASCAC schools because its usually going to help SOS and even maybe get you a regionally ranked win.

[ITH radio]

So what did you think?

http://www.blogtalkradio.com/ith/2014/10/19/in-the-huddlle--liberty-league-football-talk-show

[jackson5]

Dlip's late...but better than never write up for Union/WNEC today:

www.dlipthedutchman.blogspot.com

In between all of the whining from the Hobart fans we missed this. Dlip congrats on predicting the game perfectly. WNE tried to rub, got shut down so went to the air then rolled. Even almost got the score exactly right minus a couple points.

Thanks dude! It's one of those times Dlip wishes he was wrong. Congrats to WNEC on the W. They weathered the initial storm and then just completely took over. Best of luck on the remainder of the season. Dlip will be rooting for you guys within your league.

Thanks. Its funny when WNe scored the 3rd TD we had to do a triple check at the scoreboard. It seemed like Union dominated yet somehow it was 20-7 WNE. Once they started airing the ball out it quickly turned into a golden bear affair.

And sorry for the "Its good for a Western New England First down!" Chant. But the PA announcer was way too excited to get a first down when Union was down 3 scores. I know its his job to get the fans involved, we just had to make sure it didn't happen for you.

I know this series was originally only a home and home and have no clue what the long term plans for the series are, but I wouldn't mind if the series is continued. If not you then hopefully WNE starts one with RPI who they have scrimmaged with in the past. WNE needs to get out of New England for both recruiting and reputation purposes. Albany isn't a hard trip to get to and helps them recruit more recruits from New York State.

All NEFC/MASCAC schools should be doing this. The teams that have done it have established themselves as league contenders on a consistent basis now. Framingham, Bridgewater, Endicott, Salve, and WNEC come to my immediately and most can agree that these teams are consistently near the top. I think WestConn will continue to schedule up as well and I hope Coast Guard keeps doing so as well. I'm also a fan of both Framingham and Endicott because they have gone out and already played the favorites in the LL (EC vs Hobart) and NJAC (Fram. vs Rowan) and represented themselves alright. I believe those games for Fram., more than EC, have helped them forward this year. Its also good for the upper echelon schools of these other East schools to schedule NEFC/MASCAC schools because its usually going to help SOS and even maybe get you a regionally ranked win.

That inbred scheduling they did forever was a terrible idea. Really hurt the growth of the league and made comparasions to other leagues difficult.

[ECoastFootball]

Not on the same level as the top teams, but Worcester also played WPI and UMass Dartmouth started a home and home with Springfield.


Question to LL/E8 posters who watched the WNEC-Union game. How do you guys think the Golden Bears match up with the better teams in the LL(and to a lesser extent the E8)? Take Hobart/SJF out of the equation, how do you think they would fair agains the Upstate teams?

[ITH radio]

WNEC's offense is pretty explosive so I could see them beating the likes of the RPIs, USMMAs, WPI and they already beat SC and Union. I think SLU's defense, which has historically been very strong vs. the pass even in down years, would bottle them up.

RPI might have beaten WNEC if they played earlier in the season. The Engineers offense just can't stop turning over the ball since Avery went down.

[Doid23]

Without Hobart playing this weekend, I thought I would watch Union on live video  get on track against Western New England. I was dissapointed that Connor Eck (I root for him as a Rye HS fan) was benched for another Freshman as Western New England comes back to take a 20-7 half time lead. As a LL fan, I was hoping Union would mount a come back until I heard the Union announcer take a crack at Hobart football. He asks the question of a half time guest.... which Football program would you rather have on a D3 level...A program with a .400 record for the last few years , or a program with a .900 record with a recent NCAA violation and a front page article in a national newspaper on sexual harassment . The guest is confused and thinks he is talking about FSU. Although the announcer never mentions Hobart, he says it is a team in the Liberty League, pretty much implying that Hobart has a dirty program. Although I am a Liberty League fan(and self admitted Hobart homer), I have now turned the video off and hope that Union gets CRUSHED .

Pretty strange line of questioning, I agree.

As to the question, I'd answer C) Both. This whole D3 thing is about graduating kids, having kids be role models and set good examples, etc. is great. So if that's the only expectation, hire Mother Theresa. The job title is football coach, not guidance counselor, so some level of football success is to be expected.

[dlippiel]

Not on the same level as the top teams, but Worcester also played WPI and UMass Dartmouth started a home and home with Springfield.


Question to LL/E8 posters who watched the WNEC-Union game. How do you guys think the Golden Bears match up with the better teams in the LL(and to a lesser extent the E8)? Take Hobart/SJF out of the equation, how do you think they would fair agains the Upstate teams?

Dlip thinks RPI (w/Avery)/WNE would be close, maybe giving the homer nod to RPI. dlip thinks SLU would also beat WNE, especially because of the D and WNE's D would struggle with Leffelbine and the SLU TE's. If WNE was in the LL right now dlip would give them a good chance to finish in the top 3 and no lower than 5.

As far as the E8 goes they would be a middle of the pack team in dlip's opinion. Dlip could see them defeating Utica, Frostburg, and Hartwick. Alfred game would be close with a nod to the Saxons and IC game COULD be close if IC played like they have the past two weeks. As far as Salisbury, Brockport, Buffalo State, and especially SJF they would not win any of those games. Although they would have some success against Salisbury, Buffalo State, and Brockport's D. WNE's D would not be able to contain those offenses.

Overall Dlip was impressed with WNE's offense and a bit disappointed in the D. Still, a solid team though but they will struggle if they play a top team in the first round (if they get there).

[Bombers798891]

Without Hobart playing this weekend, I thought I would watch Union on live video  get on track against Western New England. I was dissapointed that Connor Eck (I root for him as a Rye HS fan) was benched for another Freshman as Western New England comes back to take a 20-7 half time lead. As a LL fan, I was hoping Union would mount a come back until I heard the Union announcer take a crack at Hobart football. He asks the question of a half time guest.... which Football program would you rather have on a D3 level...A program with a .400 record for the last few years , or a program with a .900 record with a recent NCAA violation and a front page article in a national newspaper on sexual harassment . The guest is confused and thinks he is talking about FSU. Although the announcer never mentions Hobart, he says it is a team in the Liberty League, pretty much implying that Hobart has a dirty program. Although I am a Liberty League fan(and self admitted Hobart homer), I have now turned the video off and hope that Union gets CRUSHED .

Pretty strange line of questioning, I agree.

As to the question, I'd answer C) Both. This whole D3 thing is about graduating kids, having kids be role models and set good examples, etc. is great. So if that's the only expectation, hire Mother Theresa. The job title is football coach, not guidance counselor, so some level of football success is to be expected.

First off, who is the guest? Because that matters.

At the core, it seems like the question is simply asking: "What's an acceptable balance between off-the-field issues and and on-the-field success/vice versa at the NCAA Division III level?" And that's something that an athletic administrator absolutely thinks about all the time, which makes it a fair question to ask of them, if that's who you're talking with. The problem though, is—based on how you describe it—the way that question is worded

Phrasing it as "Would you rather be Team A or Team B"? doesn't do anything for your audience. It doesn't try to take us inside say, the general decision-making process that someone has to go through when they balance these types of things. It creates three possible scenarios for the person you're interviewing, and all of them make that person look bad:

1. Saying you'd rather be Team B sends the message that you don't care about sexual harassment or NCAA violations because wins are more important—which few rational people believe, and even fewer would admit to publicly
2. Saying you'd rather be Team A sends the message that you're attacking Team B specifically—which few people would want to do publicly
3. Trying to rephrase it so you don't do either (1) or (2) sends the message that you're ducking the question or that you're not intelligent enough to answer it.

So, you've set up a no-win situation situation for your interview subject. As a listener, I'd see that as one of two things:

1. A way to get someone to take a shot at Team B, but allow the interviewer to keep their hands clean through a combination of a pseudo-hypothetical and passing the buck.

2. A way to make the person you're talking to look bad

If what you're really aiming for is to send your listeners the message that Team A is, despite their on-the-field issues, still in a preferable place to Team B, with their off-the-field issues, have the guts to state it directly, and stand behind your own words.

[Bartman]

Without Hobart playing this weekend, I thought I would watch Union on live video  get on track against Western New England. I was dissapointed that Connor Eck (I root for him as a Rye HS fan) was benched for another Freshman as Western New England comes back to take a 20-7 half time lead. As a LL fan, I was hoping Union would mount a come back until I heard the Union announcer take a crack at Hobart football. He asks the question of a half time guest.... which Football program would you rather have on a D3 level...A program with a .400 record for the last few years , or a program with a .900 record with a recent NCAA violation and a front page article in a national newspaper on sexual harassment . The guest is confused and thinks he is talking about FSU. Although the announcer never mentions Hobart, he says it is a team in the Liberty League, pretty much implying that Hobart has a dirty program. Although I am a Liberty League fan(and self admitted Hobart homer), I have now turned the video off and hope that Union gets CRUSHED .

Pretty strange line of questioning, I agree.

As to the question, I'd answer C) Both. This whole D3 thing is about graduating kids, having kids be role models and set good examples, etc. is great. So if that's the only expectation, hire Mother Theresa. The job title is football coach, not guidance counselor, so some level of football success is to be expected.

First off, who is the guest? Because that matters.

At the core, it seems like the question is simply asking: "What's an acceptable balance between off-the-field issues and and on-the-field success/vice versa at the NCAA Division III level?" And that's something that an athletic administrator absolutely thinks about all the time, which makes it a fair question to ask of them, if that's who you're talking with. The problem though, is—based on how you describe it—the way that question is worded

Phrasing it as "Would you rather be Team A or Team B"? doesn't do anything for your audience. It doesn't try to take us inside say, the general decision-making process that someone has to go through when they balance these types of things. It creates three possible scenarios for the person you're interviewing, and all of them make that person look bad:

1. Saying you'd rather be Team B sends the message that you don't care about sexual harassment or NCAA violations because wins are more important—which few rational people believe, and even fewer would admit to publicly
2. Saying you'd rather be Team A sends the message that you're attacking Team B specifically—which few people would want to do publicly
3. Trying to rephrase it so you don't do either (1) or (2) sends the message that you're ducking the question or that you're not intelligent enough to answer it.

So, you've set up a no-win situation situation for your interview subject. As a listener, I'd see that as one of two things:

1. A way to get someone to take a shot at Team B, but allow the interviewer to keep their hands clean through a combination of a pseudo-hypothetical and passing the buck.

2. A way to make the person you're talking to look bad

If what you're really aiming for is to send your listeners the message that Team A is, despite their on-the-field issues, still in a preferable place to Team B, with their off-the-field issues, have the guts to state it directly, and stand behind your own words.

Bombers ..this is an excellent analysis of the interview.. karma ++. I just did not understand why Frank would put out such an obvious "straw man" question which takes a poorly veiled shot at the Hobart coaching staff and program...based on a self-reported NCAA violation that an unwitting booster committed that Cragg had nothing to do with and a NYT article that was written only from the voice of the accuser and was essentially motivated by a "political agenda" and the DA found no evidence to pursue ... HWS NEVER covered it up , they proceeded as required by title IX, and have had to go through the pain of a Salem Witch trial where "I just read the headlines" people take shots at an institution and football program without knowing all of the facts. 
    I listened to the radio show( 90 minutes is too long by the way) and replay of the question and it did not change my mind on the self described "unintentional" shot at another program, in fact the explanation offered was quite Obamaesque....be a man, if you meant to take a shot at least say it , if you didn't intend to say it... you should have posed the question as Bombers suggested.  I played D3 football (and lost to Union), I understand what it means to play for the joy of the game but put the education and community first, and I think Union football under Audino has run an excellent program and they should be proud of it.  I am also proud of the Hobart program and feel the coaching staff has not compromised the institution in any way and certainly should not be the 'Team B". 
  The other argument/issue posed in the interview was that the emphasis on Hockey at Union takes away from the resources of the football program. This may be true to some extent, but I would love to see the budgets of each LL program and see if that is truly a competitive factor. Union has a  healthy endowment(twice that of Hobart's , although dwarfed by RPI and Rochester) and while they may be under the shadow of Hockey now, I think the football team has talent and they could easily be 4-2 this year with the right ball bounces and player discipline at critical moments in some of the games. It is also true that the competition for players is more intense and that the admissions standards for Union are admirable which may contribute to their challenges.  I think the LL teams all give us some yoy on weekends and although the LL will never get to the next level of  Mount Union, Wesley and Mary Hardin Baylor(less competitive academically than the average LL institution so recruiting is enhanced) or Whitewater(10,000 students helps) we can have some great Saturdays. Union will be back , and we can have some classic games in the future in our own league for the reason's that college football should be played..for the game itself...., and  limit the friendly "unintentional" fire.