FB: Liberty League

[UfanBill]

Now I know It CAN GET WORSE!  Union blows a 30-13 fourth quarter lead. 33-30 Rochester FINAL

[dlippiel]

Holy ****...

[lewdogg11]

Sorry dudes. Hahhahahahahagahahahahagahagahagaaaa.

[dlippiel]

Congrats to RPI on the win. Huge win for the Engineers.

[D3pc]

Wow. Sorry Dlip, i guess when it rains it pours. I think that may be the official end of Coach A.

Hobarts loss drops them to 4-3 (2-2). I really don't hate the decision to go for the win. We saw it last week and you see it a lot in college football. A win for hobart would've set up another championship game, but instead we now have a potentially anti-climatic rest of the season. With their win over springfield today, SLU would need to lose 2 of their last 3 (WPI, Hobart, USMMA) and RPI would have to win out (Hobart, WPI, Rochester not mathematically eliminated, but...yea). Already with 3 losses and still yet to play SLU, and UofR, there can't be a good vibe coming out of the statesmen lockerroom. Can you really blame them though? The run they had the past few years and the sheer talent they lost to graduation is amazing. Marpet is not only STARTING for the tampa bay bus but he is playing pretty damn well. RPI going forward should continue to play inspired and I expect them to finish strong, but already losing the head-to-head matchup with SLU must sting. an 8-2 season would be the best they have had in years, and they could be a candidate to represent the LL in CT at the ECACs.


Speaking of that game. SLU's offense looked particularly good. They actually lost in terms of total yards, but I think it was more of a result in starting field position for the saints. Springfield played well at times, and the QB had 2 60+ yard TD runs to keep the game somewhat close. I believe Chyron Brown-Wallace had another sack to extend his nation leading numbers. Both he and Simmon could be all-americans this year. The LL trophy (plaque) is theirs for the taking. Speaking of which, isn't it time the LL updated its championship 'trophies' from the boring little plaque to a real piece of hardware? I think the member institutions can afford to do so. For the sake of the league, unless you love the derby like what is happening in the E8, you hope for the saints to win out for a more favorable matchup.

Union. Oh Union.

And from last night, I was right with the winner, but not even close with the score. WPI handled USMMA with ease. I get the feeling both teams are counting the days until they can leave the basement of the LL for the new NEWMAC league with Springfield.

Speaking of the NEWMAC, Norwich, USMMA, and Springfield will all be members. All three run a style of the triple option offense. They are shooting themselves in the foot if they continue to do so. I mentioned it in my previous post, but in order to be successful with the triple option you either have to be physically dominant across the board, or to catch teams off-guard with execution. (Well isn't that with every team? Not quite). Once teams get the hang of defending against it, the matchups later in the season will see the triple option teams losing. My guess is atleast one of these teams abandons this style in the near future.

Only four weeks left, lets keep the discussions alive!

[Frank Rossi]

Not at home.  Not when you're supposedly equal to or better than the other team on paper.  Not when the other team is likely in shock over the situation but may be able to stop one play from the 3.  There's a difference between USMMA making that call against a team that beat them by 50+ twice in five prior years, and Hobart making that call.

Extra Point: 90% make
Winning OT at home in those circumstances: I'd guess 65%
Total: >50%

Two point conversions in college: ~42%

Even the numbers suggest it's not the right call, all other things being equal.  USMMA also had time to get the ball back last week.

[D3pc]

Not at home.  Not when you're supposedly equal to or better than the other team on paper.  Not when the other team is likely in shock over the situation but may be able to stop one play from the 3.  There's a difference between USMMA making that call against a team that beat them by 50+ twice in five prior years, and Hobart making that call.

Extra Point: 90% make
Winning OT at home in those circumstances: I'd guess 65%
Total: >50%

Two point conversions in college: ~42%

Even the numbers suggest it's not the right call, all other things being equal.  USMMA also had time to get the ball back last week.

Just read the full write-up about the game. Had no idea the final minute was even more dramatic then what I originally saw. I 100% get your reasoning and depending on the day of the week a would probably side with you. It seems like Hobart had stolen the momentum at that point, and with the kind of season Hobart has been having a 2 pt conversion win would send a big F-U to the rest of league saying the statesmen are still here to win. With the fumble, long reception, and TD reception that happened right before it, I get the decision.

[Frank Rossi]

Reffing right now at halftime -- so have to be quick.  HOB had a clear yardage lead and if not for a couple questionable play calls (gamble to go for it on 4th from their 35ish led to RPI's third TD), they should've probably been controlling the game.  Why bail out a defense in another play similar to that 4th down play in which one defensive play turns the tide (or result) of the entire game -- odds were much better in OT I think, even as it was happening.

[Bartman]

Attended an exciting Hobart -RPI game at the Boz which was heavily influenced by a 15 mph wind that gusted to 25. RPI took initial drive for TD against the wind that proved to be the difference. Hobart seemed the better offense today but some  coaching play calls  and decision to go on fourth seemed to hurt the effort . Despite this, battled back in final minute with miracle TD with no time left. Coach goes for dramatic win with gutsy 2 point call that is intercepted as RPI celebrates. Ouch. Going for the tie was statistically the right call, perhaps even with the wind, but testosterone wins out and season slips away ( in all likelihood).Players performed better than coaches in this loss from my view
Hoping for a three game win streak to end the season, and a miracle win over the Larries by WPI or the Mariners. Sure miss Ali and Tyre, thanks for the memories...but we need to make some new ones.i said this would be Craggs greatest season if he could overcome loss of talent and assistants, but it looks like LL title run is all but over.
Congrats to RPI on a well deserved win, but you will need to repair those fingernails.

[lewdogg11]

Frank, you seem a little preoccupied with the Hobart/RPI game. What happened with Union?  Ahhh nevermind. Preach on about 2 pt conversions.

[Frank Rossi]

Frank, you seem a little preoccupied with the Hobart/RPI game. What happened with Union?  Ahhh nevermind. Preach on about 2 pt conversions.

We'll be discussing that, and all the other three games, on tonight's "In the HuddLLe" podcast.  Thanks for your interest, LD!

[Hobart PBP]

What not everyone may know about the go for it call on fourth and five at their own 38 is that they had the wind, but for reasons unknown at this point, led the third quarter end without taking a time out. That meant if they did punt, based on the rest of the game, they could have expected about a 25 yard punt instead of a 50-60 yarder that might have pinned RPI deep. This is just me talking, but I wonder if, in the decision process on whether to go, they didn't notice the clock running out, and then, once it did, that made the decision for them? If you punt, RPI's getting it around their 40 with the lead and the wind.

The two point decision I don't think was remotely questionable. They've missed five extra points this year and would have been kicking into a strong wind vs. trying to gain three yards. Secondly, one of the things I love about the Hobart program is they trust their players. When coaches take the safe way out, they're saying "I don't know if we can do it." When you go for it in your own end of the field or go for two and the win, you're telling your players you believe in them. Hobart's always done it that way. In the 2006 NCAAs against Rowan, they went for two late and got it, but Rowan had enough time to come back and kick a FG.

I've seen them fake punt from their own ten. You can play for the tie and hope to win in OT or you can say "if we make one play, we win." It works sometimes, didn't work this time.

[Frank Rossi]

It works only about 40% of the time in college, and that includes all divisions -- my guess is that it is slightly lower in Division III.  Because the play is from the 3, it takes most standard rush plays out of the equation.  Most teams have special 2ptConv plays in the book to make sure they edge up their chances -- but Hobart ran a pretty standard pass play.  Honestly, if there's that level of trust in the players, then let the players play football (i.e., an Overtime period or two) and win the game.  Making those decisions actually signifies some sort of doubt to many people.  If this were a road game, maybe it changes my overall assessment... But it wasn't, and I was pretty shocked that they went for two, even after covering Hobart for the past two decades in some capacity and knowing the gambling style of the coaches.  Just food for thought.

[Pat Coleman]

Trust in the players, as long as that player isn't a kicker.

[lewdogg11]

It works only about 40% of the time in college, and that includes all divisions -- my guess is that it is slightly lower in Division III.  Because the play is from the 3, it takes most standard rush plays out of the equation.  Most teams have special 2ptConv plays in the book to make sure they edge up their chances -- but Hobart ran a pretty standard pass play.  Honestly, if there's that level of trust in the players, then let the players play football (i.e., an Overtime period or two) and win the game.  Making those decisions actually signifies some sort of doubt to many people.  If this were a road game, maybe it changes my overall assessment... But it wasn't, and I was pretty shocked that they went for two, even after covering Hobart for the past two decades in some capacity and knowing the gambling style of the coaches.  Just food for thought.

Sooooooo, about that Union game.