FB: Liberty League

[Frank Rossi]

Exciting follow up to his previous book, "How not to make friends on the internet."

You're just upset that I didn't dedicate an entire chapter to you!   

That said, +K

[ITH radio]

It's the prequel to his NYT bestseller "Never Get Involved In a Land War in Asia"

[dlippiel]

The series of books started with the novel...Don't U ****ing Touch My Microphone!"

[pg04]

Well done all, +K 

[Jonny Utah]

If the video being used by the ECAC is the one in the link I'm not sure how they could say anything about the call on that play. I can't see anything.

I think that was Frank's main point vs Cap. Inconclusive so no way you can say incomplete or INT. Rule says Dead ball, goes to O. TD.

More specifically, even in national flag tournaments, you do not allow a wrestling match to ensue if you feel one or both players have legitimate control of some portion of the football.  When you believe, as an official, that there is that mutuality, especially with the players on the ground, that play is dead and goes to the offense.  If we allowed a wrestling match: a) somebody is going to be injured (with or without equipment); b) the 225lb LB will always beat the 170lb WR, which makes no sense; and c) we're allowing a play to continue past the point of when it would be normally blown dead if only one player exhibited that control.  The rule and its execution try to be consistent with how we would call the play anywhere else on the field if a single player had possession.

But here's what I cannot underscore enough -- it is very much a subjective and instantaneous call.  I, too, have had various refs send me info today suggesting the video is fully inconclusive.  One pointed out the overall problem: there are two issues at play that we're not separating responsibly.  First, the overall reffing issues that might have existed.  If there was that problem, then suspension, a major decision and punishment in reffing ranks, might have been appropriate.  None of us can judge that, though, based on the info we have.  We can only assume the ECAC was justified if they were suspended.

The second is the question of the ultimate scoring play.  It seems that everyone is marrying the suspension into some conclusion that every call by the officials was wrong.  That doesn't follow from the first.  The ECAC apparently graded the officials for a mistake in procedure in handling the call.  That's different from making a wrong call.

Here's my best guess as to how this all happened.  SLU's AD or someone high up discussed the situation with Bill Ward, the ECAC Director of Football Refs.  In what should've been an off-the-record conversation, I'm guessing Bill listened to the chain of events described and suggested incomplete or interception should've or could've been the correct call.  Then, the ECAC got the film and graded the plays, especially those brought to their attention by SLU.  My guess is the ECAC ruled the ultimate play as "inconclusive" but graded against the officials for procedure and delay.  That document is confidential, as well, and is only provided to teams to show the ECAC is managing their officials and to answer the schools' concerns.  Neither piece of information should've been disseminated to a reporter, IF that is what happened.  And we end up with this amalgamation of inconsistent information that upends the integrity of the game potentially at the hands of people that should've preserved either a spoken or unspoken honor code.

I apologize to Cap Carey if I came across as too much of a pr^^k on Twitter, but he perpetuated something that just wasn't necessary and, as ITH said, runs completely counter to the sportsmanship and attitudes of the SLU players and staff we've dealt with over the years.  Since I've been a ref for the last four years even in national flag, integrity of the game is paramount to me.  Unless we're missing something or lack a video angle someone else has, this whole situation got blown out of control by that article and anyone that perpetuated the information improperly.  It's likely the ECAC and the LL know how this happened and will take measures to prevent it from occurring in the future.  In the meantime, I hope we all sort of understand that a call like that isn't easy, even at 500 frames per second.

Again, this assessment is a guess based on information I collected all day and some of Cap's own Twitter responses.  As such, this is by no means to be treated as Gospel.

Frank I think refs generally unofficially let the players "wrestle" until they can at least conclude who had possession of the ball.  Not a drag out wrestling match, but a few seconds at the most since in most cases it should only take you 2 seconds to see who really has possession of the ball.  In this case there would have been no wrestling match anyway, and if they saw "dual possession" then they made the right call anyway right?  Of course no body believes that the refs actually saw "dual possession" and I think that is why this is becoming such a huge issue.  They then should make the call as quick as they can to get things moving. The longer you wait, the more controversial the call is going to be no matter what you decide, especially in a case like this where there really wasn't much to discuss (no waiting for replay, no complicated decisions on multiple flags/deadball fouls, etc).  I'm going to speculate that the refs did not feel that anyone had legitimate control over who had the ball, in fact, I bet they had no clue who had the ball when they went down.

Which reminds me of another point.  How often is there truly "dual possession"?.  In most cases, someone has a better grip/possession of the ball than another person, and one way to decide this is to let them wrestle for at least a reasonable amount of time so you can at least see who has more of the possession.  Another problem with this though is when you blow the whistle, a player is supposed to stop playing (and give up the ball), but we all know this isn't an exact science either, as refs will blow the whistle when forward progress is stopped or in this case, the ball is in the endzone and both players are down.  A ref might also make the mistake of blowing the whistle too early (even by a half second) when possession is still being determined.

But like you say, the argument is out in the open (which is good for us, bad for SLU/Hobart and the refs who simply need to learn like we all do), when it probably should never have gone public in the first place.

[AUPepBand]

Frank will be signing his new book "Reffing Ain't Easy" at Barnes and Noble in Times Square tmw btw 4-6pm

Pep will put this on his "must read" list...right after Infinite Jest. 

[D3pc]

Hard to believe this is the end of the regular season already. It's been an interesting year, and although maybe not the strongest year at the top, I still believe with the right matchup a LL team can win a game or two in the playoffs.

12:00 Hobart @ Rochester

Rochester has had Hobart's  'number' the past few years, and by 'number' I mean they have played closer than what people would believe. Hobart is riding high off of last weeks win over SLU with a chance, albeit small, for the playoffs again. They would need MAJOR help from an 0-9 and a 3-5 team today. I think they get the job done here knowing that chance is small, but still there. The offense is starting to form under Sweeney, and since the did not put in a bid for an ECAC game, many talented seniors know this is most likely their final game. Hobart wins 30-10.

12:00 WPI @ Springfield

Springfield almost pulled out another stunner last week with a late fourth quarter loss to RPI. WPI was able to in fact pull off a great fourth quarter win over Rochester to lock in a winning season. A chance to go to 7-3 for the first time since 2008 is what I think puts WPI over the edge here. If they can limit the big plays, WPI wins this one by going ahead early and forcing Springfield to get away from their gameplan. The trip is short, and I think WPI just has more to play for here. Wouldn't surprise me either way as I think these two teams are evenly matched, but I will take WPI 23-17.

12:00 RPI @ Union

Oh Union. Union was picked to finish 5th in the league by the coaches, but this marks 5 years in a row I believe that they have finished below their preseason expectation. Are the coaches simply overestimating Union? Basing it off of a decade ago? Or is it just the coaching staff not putting it together? Whatever it is, I've picked Union to win a handful of times this year, and I won't bring myself to do it again. This game sets up as a huge trap game for RPI. It is on the road, it's a rivalry game where crazy things have happened in recent past, and let's face it, Union is playing for a lot as well in the form of a perfect defeated season. I look for them to throw the kitchen sink at RPI to try and play spoiler. However, with RPI's chance at the playoffs better than Hobarts', and the chance at an 8 win season for the first time since 2008, I think RPI does still take this one. I expect there will be 2 onside kicks in this game, a reverse pass for a TD, a fumble inside a teams' own 20, and atleast 3 INTs. In the end, RPI wins 38-31

1:00 USMMA @ St Lawrence

St Lawrence felt cheated out of a win last week that would have been one of the sweetest victories in program history. A chance to raise the trophy (plaque) on Hobart's home turf just as Hobart did to them last year. They ultimately let the game slip out of their hands because of their inability to put it away. Th D1 INT/ D3 TD was the deciding factor, but you can't forget they let hobart march down the field in 45 seconds as well. It is easy to say here that they may be too crushed, and USMMA has a chance to play the biggest spoiler of the year. I think SLU comes out at home and just piles it on. A loss here would be considered the biggest choke job and would absolutely stun the program. The 7ish hour bus trip is a long one, and SLU has one 5 of the at 6 against USMMA. Also, this is the 3rd triple option team SLU has faced this year, add that it is on the grass which seems to slow it down, SLU wins this one big. 45-14 to win the league

[dlippiel]

Let's go Union!

[dlippiel]

Congrats to RPI on their victory over Union today in Schenectady. The shoes remain in Troy. This was a very cold day and that clearly bothered both teams. The Engineers took many penalties today which Dlip believes allowed the Dutchmen to stay in the game. However the better team won and Dlip is very happy for RPI on their excellent season.

Dlip, who is a Nick Cascione fan (freshman QB at Union) takes his hat off to sophomore QB Dante Cioffi. The sophomore QB made a couple of very nice throws (however he needs to work on his accuracy and consistency) and took an absolute beating back there today. Dlip is very disappointed (and has been all year) in the play of the offensive line. They hung Dante out to dry today and as a result he was obviously hurt throughout the game. However he never gave up and kept on fighting. Dlip gives him a lot of credit. If he can work on his accuracy and his quickness (mobility) in the off season he could be a very good D3 QB.

This has been a tough year for sure. With that said Dlip salutes and thanks all the seniors who played in their last collegiate game today for the Dutchmen. It is really impressive to be a student athlete at Union College and graduate (as it is at any of the LL schools). Congrats and best of luck in the future to all!

[Bartman]

Congrats to St. Lawrence on winning the LL Championship and good luck in the playoffs.
Congrats to RPI on a great season and stopping Hobart on the 2 pt. conversion when it mattered
Congrats to Hobart Seniors, you finished strong, beat the LL Champion(is that another Canton whine I hear?), and had 41 wins and three LL titles in your 4 years
Congrats to MMA on a gritty performance today and every game this year
Congrats to WPI on a solid winning season
Congrats to Springfield on kicking Hobart's butt for one half
Congrats to Rochester on another winning season
Good luck to Union in the future....

[Div3Fan]

Was certainly an interesting season in the LL.

[D3pc]

Well...a new champion, an 0-10 team, an improved WPI team, a great and controversial SLU/Hobart game, a few upsets, a few blowouts.

Another question is, who are the conference award winners going to be?

No one really stood out on the offensive side of the ball above the rest. My guess is it will be Leffelbine again, but he did have an uncharacteristic 8 INTs this year, with 5 of the 8 against Union and Kings Point. But he did have a very impressive 26 TDs. No running back dominated like in years past, definitely won't come from the backfield. A late surge in the season allowed Union's Reynolds to lead the league in both receptions and yards, but the numbers aren't enough alone to earn POY. I also assume last year will be the first and last time we see an OL win the award, although deservedly so.

For defensive POY, it still isn't an obvious selection, but there are the obvious candidates. I think it comes down to St lawrence's Brown-Wallace and Simmon, Hobart's Toney, Springfield's Nacewicz, and Union's LaRovera. LaRovera had 25 more tackles than anyone else in the conference, but I think because of Union's record he is out of the running. Definitely a first team selection however. You could really make a case for any of the other 4. Nacewicz has been a beast for years. He was 3rd in the league in tackles and 2nd in the league for TFLs. Simon was the best cover corner in the league and was a threat on both sides of the ball. Brown-Wallace lead the league in TFLs and Sacks and led the country for most of the season in those same categories. I could see co players of the year here, with all four receiving at least all region honors, probably all-american as well.

I will be honest, I have no idea who the ROY will be. Looking at the weekly award winners, there was a new winner each week except for Hobart's Barfield the only player to win it twice, 8 weeks apart. Need some help here with other opinions.

Coaching staff of the year I think goes to Chris Robinson and his staff at WPI. Turning in a 7-3 season is a big improvement for them, plus with a lot of young players on the roster there is more to look forward to. The other choice would be Coach Raymond at SLU for obvious reasons. They won the league and had 5 new coaches on his staff. The fact that he didn't win in 2013 from going 0-10 to 7-3 still baffles me. Yes, it is impressive to go undefeated again for Hobart, but with that roster I think almost any coach in the league could have done so. Maybe he gets it this year as a makeup from 2 years ago. Hobart's Cragg will get some recognition and deservedly so. Losing both your OC and DC in the same season hurts. In the end, I still think its WPI, but wouldn't be surprised if it goes to SLU.

[purpled]

Hey Saints fans! Welcome back to Alliance! Remember, you'll be sitting in the open stands with the winds blowing in your face. Looks like you like to throw the ball and we love defending the pass. Should be interesting. We do run the ball, over 300 yds/gm. Can you stop that effectively?

Have a safe trip!

[stlawus]

We have a very solid defense all around.  Good D-line, effective LB corps and All American DBs.  However, I don't think you'll have much to worry about.  Even though I'm a SLU fan I'm realistic.  We may compete for a half or so, but we've had a few injuries that have limited our depth. 

[purpled]

We have a very solid defense all around.  Good D-line, effective LB corps and All American DBs.  However, I don't think you'll have much to worry about.  Even though I'm a SLU fan I'm realistic.  We may compete for a half or so, but we've had a few injuries that have limited our depth. 

Will you be making the trip? I believe that if the Saints can't or don't run the ball it will be a long afternoon for your QB.