FB: Liberty League

[Bartman]

Alright!
Good Monday Night Football shout out to RPI!

The Power League of D3 Football ...the Liberty League...measured by 2 rookie STARTERS in the NFL(Marpet at Tampa Bay and Franks in Miami) that look like they will be starting for the next decade with good health and I personally think they both will be future Pro Bowlers....

[ITH radio]

Another team is slated to join LL, likely out of PA. Will prob not be announced until after the New Year.

Congrats to Pat, Frank, Dave and co who put on an excellent Gagliardi trophy show which saw Wesley QB Joe Callahan be the first "east region" player to win the award. Production quality looked very good and webcast, graphics and audio were all well done.

Stagg Bowl on Friday should be a good one but I'll take Mount to win by a couple scores, mostly because it's defense is so good and the offense will eventually wear down the Tommies.

[Div3Fan]

No matter which PA school joins the LL, I'll be surprised. This'll be interesting for sure.

[jknezek]

No matter which PA school joins the LL, I'll be surprised. This'll be interesting for sure.

Yeah. I can't imagine its Wilkes or Kings. If it isn't Misericordia or Lycoming that makes for a pretty large travel footprint. Moravian, Susquehanna, and Alleghany would be the next couple of the northern PA type schools I think. It'll be interesting to see who is announced. Ithaca is a big pick up. I'm somewhat surprised they didn't dip into the E8 well for another private school if possible instead of heading down to PA. These things always are much more complicated in reality than I seem to think they should be however.

[pg04]

No matter which PA school joins the LL, I'll be surprised. This'll be interesting for sure.

Yeah. I can't imagine its Wilkes or Kings. If it isn't Misericordia or Lycoming that makes for a pretty large travel footprint. Moravian, Susquehanna, and Alleghany would be the next couple of the northern PA type schools I think. It'll be interesting to see who is announced. Ithaca is a big pick up. I'm somewhat surprised they didn't dip into the E8 well for another private school if possible instead of heading down to PA. These things always are much more complicated in reality than I seem to think they should be however.

I'm not sure if this makes it more or less likely (probably less if they left already, but I don't know) but Susquehanna was already part of the LL for 3 years between 2007-2009 (you may already know this but for others...)

They actually won the LL in their final year 2009: http://d3football.com/teams/Susquehanna/2009/index

Only to get crushed 66-7 by Del Val in the playoffs

[jknezek]

No matter which PA school joins the LL, I'll be surprised. This'll be interesting for sure.

Yeah. I can't imagine its Wilkes or Kings. If it isn't Misericordia or Lycoming that makes for a pretty large travel footprint. Moravian, Susquehanna, and Alleghany would be the next couple of the northern PA type schools I think. It'll be interesting to see who is announced. Ithaca is a big pick up. I'm somewhat surprised they didn't dip into the E8 well for another private school if possible instead of heading down to PA. These things always are much more complicated in reality than I seem to think they should be however.

I'm not sure if this makes it more or less likely (probably less if they left already, but I don't know) but Susquehanna was already part of the LL for 3 years between 2007-2009 (you may already know this but for others...)

They actually won the LL in their final year 2009: http://d3football.com/teams/Susquehanna/2009/index

Only to get crushed 66-7 by Del Val in the playoffs

Yeah. I knew that. I think they are pretty unlikely. I was just looking geographically. The LL is already a pretty big footprint, especially in an area with so many D3 schools. I just don't see Wilkes or Kings fitting in with how the LL views itself. Though I could be wrong about that. My parents are Wilkes grads, so I have nothing against the school, it just doesn't seem to fit to me. But Ithaca's admin rate is pushing 60% and Wilkes/Kings/Lycoming/Misericordia all push 70% or more. Susquehanna also pushes 70%, as does Springfield. So I guess any of them are options in the end.

I'm just really interested in who it is. I also feel it's more likely a MAC school than a Centennial school, as I just don't see the Centennial schools viewing the LL as a prestige step up, especially one worth the extra travel hassle.

That leaves the western PA schools in the PAC, which are a long ride from some of the LL schools. That's a huge adjustment for not much gain. Which brings us to Alleghany. The only NCAC school in PA, with long trips to Wabash and Depauw now lined up. The LL trips probably don't look any better, and the LL conference doesn't really carry much more reputation prestige as far as I can tell. But if Alleghany's recruiting is shifting east, or their student population is coming more from Eastern PA than Western PA/Ohio, that could be somewhat attractive. Maybe? Probably not.

Anyway, I still think it's probably a MAC school, unless there is a school adding football somewhere which would be a true wildcard.

Dead time. Fun to think about and nice to know we'll get an answer eventually.

[pg04]

That leaves the western PA schools in the PAC, which are a long ride from some of the LL schools.

St. Lawrence really adds to the distance factor. But if I had to guess it will be a MAC school as you said. Again, just a guess. I honestly don't really know all that much about the academic prestige of a lot of those schools to take a guess on which school.

[NED3Guy]

I don't think the travel footprint is that big of deal to the LL...especially if this mystery PA school will be a football only member. (Not sure if that is true or not, but I assume it will be the case).

When you look at the footprint as it currently stands, with Canton being the northern most point, Worcester being the eastern boarder, and Rochester and Kings point on the West and South you end up with a pretty big footprint.

So with that said, I think Carnegie Mellon could be the one. They already have ties to Rochester as a UAA school in other sports (they're an affiliate member of the PAC currently), fit the academic profile, have what appears to be a pretty strong team who wins a lot of games in the PAC by large margins (against lesser opponents?).....could be time to change things up for them? (Mapquest has Pittsburgh only 40 minutes further for SLU than Kings Point)

I have no real good reason to think this, no inside info or anything,  but am just throwing it out there.

[pg04]

That's a good one to consider, Given the pre-existing relationship with Rochester. I still think It would seem like they'd be on quite the island though, even given the already big footprint. This map, although not up to date completely (can someone do this again?), gives a visual of what could be in play here.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/01/NCAA_Division_3_football_map.gif

(I tried to post the image itself but it didn't work out very appealing)

[jknezek]

I don't think the travel footprint is that big of deal to the LL...especially if this mystery PA school will be a football only member. (Not sure if that is true or not, but I assume it will be the case).

When you look at the footprint as it currently stands, with Canton being the northern most point, Worcester being the eastern boarder, and Rochester and Kings point on the West and South you end up with a pretty big footprint.

So with that said, I think Carnegie Mellon could be the one. They already have ties to Rochester as a UAA school in other sports (they're an affiliate member of the PAC currently), fit the academic profile, have what appears to be a pretty strong team who wins a lot of games in the PAC by large margins (against lesser opponents?).....could be time to change things up for them? (Mapquest has Pittsburgh only 40 minutes further for SLU than Kings Point)

I have no real good reason to think this, no inside info or anything,  but am just throwing it out there.

As a football only member I think that's not a bad point. The PAC is a little large at the moment, 11 schools, making it more than a bit unwieldy. Two of the UAA schools just broke off their SAA affiliation. I could see if there is pressure on CMU and Wash U to give up their UAA opponents they might be searching for a more hospitable home. All speculation of course.

Still think it'll be a MAC school overall though.

[ITH radio]

The borders in the future LL are basically Rochester to west, Slu to north, RPI/Union to east and south is basically IC so if a PAC or PA school comes into play it may affect the eastern border more than the others. Could open something to like an Alfred perhaps who is an old rival of IC's & Hobart possibly.

[AUPepBand]

The borders in the future LL are basically Rochester to west, Slu to north, RPI/Union to east and south is basically IC so if a PAC or PA school comes into play it may affect the eastern border more than the others. Could open something to like an Alfred perhaps who is an old rival of IC's & Hobart possibly.

Pep really hasn't bounced this off any AU officials, but Pep certainly hasn't heard any talk whatsoever about AU leaving the E8. Ithaca has been wanting to get into the LL for a number of years and now has something the LL members need.

[Garnet]

http://www.unionathletics.com/story.aspx?filename=GEN_1217153648&file_date=12/17/2015

Head Football Coach John Audino Announces Retirement

[UfanBill]

First let me say that coach John Audino is a class act.  He has led the Union football program to great success and lately has endured painful underachievement.  His program has been at the top BUT now it is near the bottom.  It was time for him to move on.  I have been saying in previous posts over a 3-5 year period that the Union coaching staff needs to bring better...better schemes, better play calling, better techniques, better discipline, better effort and better results.  I truly believe coach Audino gave his best to improve the team at all these levels but this year's 0-10 record tells the story.  Good luck coach.  As a fan of Union College football since I first suited up for the Dutchmen in the fall of '68, I appreciate all that you have done.  Thanks       

[UfanBill]

In keeping with the previous thread on the future LL make-up, let me congratulate Ithaca for joining the LL.  As to who else may be next...I would like to see it be another NYS school.  I know the politics off it all are hard to sort through but in my opinion the LL should court... 1) Hartwick 2) Hamilton(ready to leave the NESCAC?) 3) Alfred or 4) maybe a LL school that doesn't presently have football such as Clarkson, Skidmore, RIT or Vassar (all long shots and long range I know).  A Pennsylvania school would be a temporary solution (see Susquehanna) IMO, though Case Western Reserve or Carnegie Mellon make some sense. Of course I have long advocated a NYS Super Conference with Empire and Liberty divisions.