FB: Liberty League

[bman]

Anyone notice that Vince Kerhres looks like Pyle from Full Metal Jacket?  Or is it just me...?

[jknezek]

Anyone notice that Vince Kerhres looks like Pyle from Full Metal Jacket?  Or is it just me...?

ouch...

[ITH radio]

Frank's comments were as follows:

https://www.facebook.com/frank.rossi/posts/10153815292631972

[Jonny Utah]

Frank's comments were as follows:

https://www.facebook.com/frank.rossi/posts/10153815292631972

Think of it this way: you have a car that's running great, but you decide, despite that, you'll change the brakes and the radiator. As you continue driving the car, it's not running the same way -- in fact, it's overheating and the brakes are screeching at every stop light. So, obviously you need to fix the car. Do you change the engine to fix it? Why would you? Shouldn't you fix the brakes and radiator first since your initial changes seemed to lead to the inferior performance? Well, not at Union -- they decided the engine needed to go. Guess what: the brakes and radiator are still problems, and now, the new engine might begin to be a problem, too. With Audino, Union knew they had an engine that wanted to win and that always handled everyone with class and a players-first mentality. He should have powered the Dutchmen for several more years until he was ready to retire from coaching altogether.

Frank has always expressed his admiration for Audino, which is fine, but I think it may be clouding his judgment a little, especially with an analogy like this.  An 0-10 team is not a car that is running great.  I think a better car analogy would be to an older car that no longer runs, but everyone loves it because it is so comfortable to sit in and when it works is great.  So do you spend money at a garage to fix it up when a mechanic tells you the car is simply no longer good and still may not run if you replace all the broken parts?  Or is it time to just look for a new car.

I think it is time for Union to look for a new car.  Cars are meant for driving, not comfort.

[Frank Rossi]

Frank's comments were as follows:

https://www.facebook.com/frank.rossi/posts/10153815292631972

Think of it this way: you have a car that's running great, but you decide, despite that, you'll change the brakes and the radiator. As you continue driving the car, it's not running the same way -- in fact, it's overheating and the brakes are screeching at every stop light. So, obviously you need to fix the car. Do you change the engine to fix it? Why would you? Shouldn't you fix the brakes and radiator first since your initial changes seemed to lead to the inferior performance? Well, not at Union -- they decided the engine needed to go. Guess what: the brakes and radiator are still problems, and now, the new engine might begin to be a problem, too. With Audino, Union knew they had an engine that wanted to win and that always handled everyone with class and a players-first mentality. He should have powered the Dutchmen for several more years until he was ready to retire from coaching altogether.

Frank has always expressed his admiration for Audino, which is fine, but I think it may be clouding his judgment a little, especially with an analogy like this.  An 0-10 team is not a car that is running great.  I think a better car analogy would be to an older car that no longer runs, but everyone loves it because it is so comfortable to sit in and when it works is great.  So do you spend money at a garage to fix it up when a mechanic tells you the car is simply no longer good and still may not run if you replace all the broken parts?  Or is it time to just look for a new car.

I think it is time for Union to look for a new car.  Cars are meant for driving, not comfort.

The car was running great at 10-0 in 2005.  The financial and admissions changes were made subsequent (brakes and radiator).  They have yet to be fixed back to working form (see NESCAC comparison).

[Jonny Utah]

Frank's comments were as follows:

https://www.facebook.com/frank.rossi/posts/10153815292631972

Think of it this way: you have a car that's running great, but you decide, despite that, you'll change the brakes and the radiator. As you continue driving the car, it's not running the same way -- in fact, it's overheating and the brakes are screeching at every stop light. So, obviously you need to fix the car. Do you change the engine to fix it? Why would you? Shouldn't you fix the brakes and radiator first since your initial changes seemed to lead to the inferior performance? Well, not at Union -- they decided the engine needed to go. Guess what: the brakes and radiator are still problems, and now, the new engine might begin to be a problem, too. With Audino, Union knew they had an engine that wanted to win and that always handled everyone with class and a players-first mentality. He should have powered the Dutchmen for several more years until he was ready to retire from coaching altogether.

Frank has always expressed his admiration for Audino, which is fine, but I think it may be clouding his judgment a little, especially with an analogy like this.  An 0-10 team is not a car that is running great.  I think a better car analogy would be to an older car that no longer runs, but everyone loves it because it is so comfortable to sit in and when it works is great.  So do you spend money at a garage to fix it up when a mechanic tells you the car is simply no longer good and still may not run if you replace all the broken parts?  Or is it time to just look for a new car.

I think it is time for Union to look for a new car.  Cars are meant for driving, not comfort.

The car was running great at 10-0 in 2005.  The financial and admissions changes were made subsequent (brakes and radiator).  They have yet to be fixed back to working form (see NESCAC comparison).

My 2005 Toyota Tundra was also great in 2005 (It's actually doing ok today too!!), but at some point in the next few years I'm going to have to replace it.  Why wait to get stranded when I can just buy a new car? 

But I actually see what your saying, that the "car" was running great in 2005 and you changed the brakes for no reason.  But that reason is up for debate right?

Mabye a better analogy would be to say that at some point the State changed its emission standards and you needed to replace some parts on a car that seemed to be running fine.  So when you change the catalytic convertor the axles were effected.  Sure you can blame the state for being run by some climate change fearing politician, or you can just buy a more powerful engine and shocks to offset the axle problems.

[D3pc]

http://www.d3football.com/awards/all-americans/2015

congrats to Brown-Wallace, Simmon, and Nacewicz here. I counted TEN Mount Union players on here. At first you think that is ridiculous, but in reality they could probably have more.

A discussion I've had many times is whether or not a conferences' all star team could beat Mount Union. Pretty crazy to think that some years for certain conferences, I'm pretty sure the answer would be no.

[D3viewer]

For a retired coach..it was interesting to see Larry Kehres on the headsets during the game. Not too many ADs do that eh ? Obviously I get he is close to the program and is the patriarch of the program and family....and they are looking for any advantage..and he is an asset. But..despite it "working"...it comes off as him being the puppet master still. Who really runs the show at Mount  ? Doesn't really matter of course . It must be nice to have an experienced voice in the clouds to give a young coach advice...but it comes off to me as... Vince is not on his own yet.

[Pat Coleman]

He is close to the program, as the quarterbacks coach.

[Jonny Utah]

He is close to the program, as the quarterbacks coach.

That is what I thought but he isn't listed on the team webpage for some reason.

[dlippiel]

Frank's comments were as follows:

https://www.facebook.com/frank.rossi/posts/10153815292631972

Think of it this way: you have a car that's running great, but you decide, despite that, you'll change the brakes and the radiator. As you continue driving the car, it's not running the same way -- in fact, it's overheating and the brakes are screeching at every stop light. So, obviously you need to fix the car. Do you change the engine to fix it? Why would you? Shouldn't you fix the brakes and radiator first since your initial changes seemed to lead to the inferior performance? Well, not at Union -- they decided the engine needed to go. Guess what: the brakes and radiator are still problems, and now, the new engine might begin to be a problem, too. With Audino, Union knew they had an engine that wanted to win and that always handled everyone with class and a players-first mentality. He should have powered the Dutchmen for several more years until he was ready to retire from coaching altogether.

Frank has always expressed his admiration for Audino, which is fine, but I think it may be clouding his judgment a little, especially with an analogy like this.  An 0-10 team is not a car that is running great.  I think a better car analogy would be to an older car that no longer runs, but everyone loves it because it is so comfortable to sit in and when it works is great.  So do you spend money at a garage to fix it up when a mechanic tells you the car is simply no longer good and still may not run if you replace all the broken parts?  Or is it time to just look for a new car.

I think it is time for Union to look for a new car.  Cars are meant for driving, not comfort.

The car was running great at 10-0 in 2005.  The financial and admissions changes were made subsequent (brakes and radiator).  They have yet to be fixed back to working form (see NESCAC comparison).

My 2005 Toyota Tundra was also great in 2005 (It's actually doing ok today too!!), but at some point in the next few years I'm going to have to replace it.  Why wait to get stranded when I can just buy a new car? 

But I actually see what your saying, that the "car" was running great in 2005 and you changed the brakes for no reason.  But that reason is up for debate right?

Mabye a better analogy would be to say that at some point the State changed its emission standards and you needed to replace some parts on a car that seemed to be running fine.  So when you change the catalytic convertor the axles were effected.  Sure you can blame the state for being run by some climate change fearing politician, or you can just buy a more powerful engine and shocks to offset the axle problems.

To Dlip the answers to these questions/thoughts will come in time. When the new coaching staff comes in the product on the field over a period of the next 4-5 years will provide some great insight into what has/is happened/happening at Union with the football program.

However, if Dlip was interviewing for this position he would have some serious questions about the school's commitment to the program. If indeed the gouging has happened and will prove to continue, who the **** would want to coach at Union? The on the field reputation of the program is shot (for now at least), the academic standards are sky high, and the support for the team on campus seems like zero. It really is sad if you ask dlip. Maybe we could hang up more than one ****ing football picture in the garnet room underneath Messa Rink

Dlip will say this, he would love to see Audino continue coaching at Union with an entirely new and energetic staff beneath him. It was this year that, to Dlip, this seemed to be one of the issues within the program that has been a big reason for the poor play. John has taken WAY TOO MUCH heat for being the only one responsible for the team's short comings on the field. If coach is guilty of anything it may be his undying loyalty to his staff. Which to Dlip is quite admirable, especially in the D3 world but just didn't get the job done as the team's depth lessened each year.

These are dlip's true feelings on the issue. Of course he will never waver in his love and support of Union Football and will watch the Dutchmen until the day he dies. He will also never lose his admiration and appreciation of John Audino. Everything he stands for and all the magic he has brought to Union Football over his more than two decade tenure at the helm.

[jamtod]

He is close to the program, as the quarterbacks coach.

That is what I thought but he isn't listed on the team webpage for some reason.

I think the first few years he did not have an official capacity, but Vince and the rest of the staff convinced him to take on that role and work with T. Scott.  Seems like he's done pretty good at keeping himself out of the limelight and letting Vince do his thing.

[Bombers798891]

I think Frank's got a point with a lot of what he says. Clearly, the Union "car" was changed. But perhaps the administration believes that, even with those changes, this program should not be going 0-10 (although that record is also probably not indicative of their talent level, given the number of close games they played)

I'm always torn when D-III coaches are fired for on-field performance. Certainly, at our level, that should come in as a clear #2 in importance behind maintaining high academics and developing good men. And from all indications, Audino and his staff excelled at that.

But, as a devil's advocate...developing high-quality young men who excel academically and graduate isn't necessarily mutually exclusive from winning—not so much winning at 11-1, but not winning 3, 2, and then 0 games. At some point, there *has* to  be at least some focus on the on the field product, doesn't there?

So perhaps the administration believes that they can continue that academic success while also improving the on-field product with a change.

Of course, this gets back to the car point. A car with lousy brakes has lousy brakes regardless of who is driving. And it also raises the question, as Frank pointed out, if Union is applying the on the field success criteria fairly.

I love being a D-III football fan and being free of 99% of the BS that goes on in D-I. But this is when it truly sucks. How much do we allow our fandom to come out? How do we balance truly knowing that for these student-athletes, academics and community are always first, with wanting to see our teams win, not lose on Saturdays?

[jknezek]

It's always tough to send out a legendary coach. That being said, if the school changed the car, and the coach isn't able to make it drive anymore, it's probably time to try out a new coach. Maybe the new coach can find a new way to work within the changes to do better than the recent trend at Union. It's not like one bad season spelled doom.

Then again, maybe the car has been changed so much it's completely damaged and no one can do any better. I have no idea. But I do know at this point the only way to find out is to try.

Rough on Coach Audino, but 5 wins in three years, with each total dropping, isn't good. I'm not big on firing a DIII coach solely for wins and losses, but there comes a point where the program needs a new direction or it's in danger of hitting a wall.

DIII uses sports to drive enrollment or as an enticement to get kids who might enroll somewhere else. If the losing trend is paired with a diminished enrollment effect from either recruiting or simply being a losing program, that is when it should become a concern, even in DIII.

I have no idea if this was happening at Union, but I agree wins/losses alone don't do it, but wins and losses paired with enrollment issues is as good a reason as you will find in DIII.

[Desertraider]

For a retired coach..it was interesting to see Larry Kehres on the headsets during the game. Not too many ADs do that eh ? Obviously I get he is close to the program and is the patriarch of the program and family....and they are looking for any advantage..and he is an asset. But..despite it "working"...it comes off as him being the puppet master still. Who really runs the show at Mount  ? Doesn't really matter of course . It must be nice to have an experienced voice in the clouds to give a young coach advice...but it comes off to me as... Vince is not on his own yet.

It has been stated before (I think even ESPN mentioned it) that the headset allows him to listen only.