FB: Liberty League

[Ralph Turner]

There's a joke in Iowa:
If Missouri were to annex the southern-most counties of Iowa, it would raise the IQ of both states.

Well, this move by Buffalo State appears to have the same effect. Using my 2017 preseason ratings for each team, here's how the move would affect conference ratings/standings:

Conference	Current Rating	Post-Realignment Rating
Empire 8	0.730 (6th nationally)	0.734 (6)
Liberty League	0.640 (9)	0.651 (9)

True story...
Back in the 1990's, when Arkansas left the Southwest Conference and moved to the SEC, it raised the average of the SAT/ACT scores of incoming freshman classes of member institutions of both conferences.

[Bombers798891]

You think student interns could do that, but don't get me started. Explanations I've heard is it's a small staff covering 20+ teams and they're asked to do things above and beyond what most d3 schools do for game days, etc.

They have 3,000 Twitter followers. My guess is, the number of people who want live updates to games and *aren't* following in some other way already is very, very, very small. Ultimately, I think there's value in it, but if their athletic communications people say they have enough responsibilities on game day (and having worked in those offices, I suspect they do) I can see why they say it isn't the best use of their time.

College Twitter accounts are weird.  The Northeastern Hockey and Basketball ones basically so a play by play of each game.  Duke lacrosse does as well as I was following a friend of mine a few weeks ago.  You would think that at least Hobart's lacrosse program would want to do something like that? 

IC and Cortland played in lacrosse the other day, and I followed the live stats via my phone. What advantage does Twitter give you with stuff like this? Asking seriously.

[Jonny Utah]

It takes me 5 seconds to turn on my phone and check a score on twitter, if I want more detail or real updates, I will take the extra 2-5 minutes and get live stats.  That's just me though.

[Bombers798891]

It takes me 5 seconds to turn on my phone and check a score on twitter

Huh. That's how long it take me to do the same with livestats. Guess I just don't get it

[Jonny Utah]

Seriously I type in my phone passcode, twitter app, type in the letters I, T, and my Ithaca links that I follow pop up, that takes in all seriousness about 10 seconds.  How do you get livestats that quick?  I'm not being snarky but when I use livestats for anything I usually have to go through 1 or 2 webpages and then it often takes a few seconds to load. (Unless I already have it up and am following something)

I follow livestats for IC football all the time and twittet doesn't update that fast for obvious reasons, but I do find it quicker if I don't have he livestats up at that moment.

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

Some people (a) have alerts set up on their phone (like myself) for accounts that tweet... so they can get those updates without getting their phone up and running... and (b) might have something like TweetDeck (like myself) which has a column just for particular accounts, hashtags, etc. and this would allow them to see updates.

The real key, in my opinion, is when people are tweeting (and PBP is a bit much for me) they are including link(s) to live stats or video - they should also include hashtags that are universally used so more people can see them (i.e. #d3fb or conference related). That way if someone spots the tweet, they can immediately click on the link(s) and get more information or even watch the game. I cannot emphasized this enough, because I have seen video streaming numbers skyrocket when this happens. Same is true for live stats and such. People see the tweet and are just one click away from getting to the game.

[Bombers798891]

Seriously I type in my phone passcode, twitter app, type in the letters I, T, and my Ithaca links that I follow pop up, that takes in all seriousness about 10 seconds.  How do you get livestats that quick?  I'm not being snarky but when I use livestats for anything I usually have to go through 1 or 2 webpages and then it often takes a few seconds to load. (Unless I already have it up and am following something)

I follow livestats for IC football all the time and twittet doesn't update that fast for obvious reasons, but I do find it quicker if I don't have he livestats up at that moment.

I mean, I guess we can quibble over the exact time it takes to load each one, but I suspect it's less than a minute in both cases.

The central question isn't "Is Twitter valuable for updating people about in progress games?" It's "Is Twitter enough people's sole method of following in game updates that it's necessary to make updating it a worthwhile use of an athletic communication staff's game day responsibilities?"

[Bombers798891]

Some people (a) have alerts set up on their phone (like myself) for accounts that tweet... so they can get those updates without getting their phone up and running... and (b) might have something like TweetDeck (like myself) which has a column just for particular accounts, hashtags, etc. and this would allow them to see updates.

This is a Twitter account with 3,000 followers total. I imagine the number of people who are relying on the feed to provide them PBP updates of a game—and who would not use livestats for that if Twitter wasn't updating—is vanishingly small.

[Jonny Utah]

Some people (a) have alerts set up on their phone (like myself) for accounts that tweet... so they can get those updates without getting their phone up and running... and (b) might have something like TweetDeck (like myself) which has a column just for particular accounts, hashtags, etc. and this would allow them to see updates.

This is a Twitter account with 3,000 followers total. I imagine the number of people who are relying on the feed to provide them PBP updates of a game—and who would not use livestats for that if Twitter wasn't updating—is vanishingly small.

Well my original comment was about Hobart's d1 lacrosse program.  I would think it would be in their best interest to be as active as possible on various forms of social media.  I assumed if Duke, Ithaca College and most other d1 lacrosse programs tweet out score changes with small details, Hobart would too.

I think the big difference is what you are looking for.  Do you just want a score, or do you want some sort of play by play and/or stats.  If I just want the score, I'll save the 30 seconds (yes those seconds do matter to me when all I want is a score) and go to twitter.  If I'm doing something where I can't be looking at my phone for long (or even short periods of time), I will set up an alert to send me score changes (on twitter or my scoremoblie app)  If I want to see how things are unfolding in a game, I will use livestats (I only go to livestats for Ithaca football games that aren't on video and once when IC baseball was in the College WS).

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

Here is the key to all of this... the best ones cover their bases. Those who want to watch via live stats can, those who want updates via Twitter can, some even use other social media platforms on top of Twitter. Cover as many bases as possible. Just because someone here doesn't use Twitter and goes to live stats doesn't mean they should stop using Twitter to update people.

Now, PBP versus updates that are a little less often (per football, maybe start and end of a drive, key plays during drive, etc.) is certainly a topic for discussion... but usually I have found that the users feedback to that entity is the one that determines it. If they are tweeting too little or too much... people will let them know (as will increases to their website or video stream).

But it is important to cover all bases... kind of like when people talk about live streaming to Facebook or Twitter, I point out that there needs to be another option for those who don't have social media. Thus things like Hoopsville or other elements have a simulcast.

[Bombers798891]

Here is the key to all of this... the best ones cover their bases. Those who want to watch via live stats can, those who want updates via Twitter can, some even use other social media platforms on top of Twitter. Cover as many bases as possible. Just because someone here doesn't use Twitter and goes to live stats doesn't mean they should stop using Twitter to update people.

But it is important to cover all bases... kind of like when people talk about live streaming to Facebook or Twitter, I point out that there needs to be another option for those who don't have social media. Thus things like Hoopsville or other elements have a simulcast.

But the key to that is having the staff to do that. When I worked in that office, you're not only trying to keep up with live stats for the game you're at, you're looking up and and passing along notes along to radio/TV broadcasters. You're answering questions from students at the other game that's going on at the same time, you're putting out fires—I once had a thumb drive in a laptop when an errant field hockey shot in warmups actually hit it, knocked it out and literally bent it to the point where the it couldn't go back in, requiring someone to go back to the office. Adding to that doesn't just happen seamlessly.

[Bombers798891]

Well my original comment was about Hobart's d1 lacrosse program.  I would think it would be in their best interest to be as active as possible on various forms of social media.  I assumed if Duke, Ithaca College and most other d1 lacrosse programs tweet out score changes with small details, Hobart would too.

I think the big difference is what you are looking for.  Do you just want a score, or do you want some sort of play by play and/or stats.  If I just want the score, I'll save the 30 seconds (yes those seconds do matter to me when all I want is a score) and go to twitter.  If I'm doing something where I can't be looking at my phone for long (or even short periods of time), I will set up an alert to send me score changes (on twitter or my scoremoblie app)  If I want to see how things are unfolding in a game, I will use livestats (I only go to livestats for Ithaca football games that aren't on video and once when IC baseball was in the College WS).

But based on what Huddle wrote, Hobart's issue is not about the utility of the medium. It's about resource allocation, and if Hobart's AC office feels they can devote additional game-day resources to doing live updates for all their teams throughout the year—remember, Title IX covers promotion and publicity as well, so you don't just get to pick and choose what sports you do it for. (And even forgetting Title IX, there's office politics to consider. You don't want coaches complaining about their team getting the short end of the stick from your office, because you'll need their help plenty during the year)

The part of your quote I bolded applies equally to an athletic communications staff during a game. The 30 seconds it takes to update Twitter each time a goal is scored or whatever doesn't come from down time when you're sitting around doing nothing.

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

Here is the key to all of this... the best ones cover their bases. Those who want to watch via live stats can, those who want updates via Twitter can, some even use other social media platforms on top of Twitter. Cover as many bases as possible. Just because someone here doesn't use Twitter and goes to live stats doesn't mean they should stop using Twitter to update people.

But it is important to cover all bases... kind of like when people talk about live streaming to Facebook or Twitter, I point out that there needs to be another option for those who don't have social media. Thus things like Hoopsville or other elements have a simulcast.

But the key to that is having the staff to do that. When I worked in that office, you're not only trying to keep up with live stats for the game you're at, you're looking up and and passing along notes along to radio/TV broadcasters. You're answering questions from students at the other game that's going on at the same time, you're putting out fires—I once had a thumb drive in a laptop when an errant field hockey shot in warmups actually hit it, knocked it out and literally bent it to the point where the it couldn't go back in, requiring someone to go back to the office. Adding to that doesn't just happen seamlessly.

One of the advantages to the current crop of website companies (Presto, Sidearm, etc.) is they actually have a function in the backend and even through some of the live stats entry locations to send out tweets. Basically cutting down several steps along the way and doing it quickly.

And more and more SID staffs that I know do have student workers they task with something like social media (after some training) or even live stats. Some of the team accounts are actually run by the teams and thus who they task to do it (usually also under the supervision, guidance, training of the SID office).

[Jonny Utah]

Well my original comment was about Hobart's d1 lacrosse program.  I would think it would be in their best interest to be as active as possible on various forms of social media.  I assumed if Duke, Ithaca College and most other d1 lacrosse programs tweet out score changes with small details, Hobart would too.

I think the big difference is what you are looking for.  Do you just want a score, or do you want some sort of play by play and/or stats.  If I just want the score, I'll save the 30 seconds (yes those seconds do matter to me when all I want is a score) and go to twitter.  If I'm doing something where I can't be looking at my phone for long (or even short periods of time), I will set up an alert to send me score changes (on twitter or my scoremoblie app)  If I want to see how things are unfolding in a game, I will use livestats (I only go to livestats for Ithaca football games that aren't on video and once when IC baseball was in the College WS).

But based on what Huddle wrote, Hobart's issue is not about the utility of the medium. It's about resource allocation, and if Hobart's AC office feels they can devote additional game-day resources to doing live updates for all their teams throughout the year—remember, Title IX covers promotion and publicity as well, so you don't just get to pick and choose what sports you do it for. (And even forgetting Title IX, there's office politics to consider. You don't want coaches complaining about their team getting the short end of the stick from your office, because you'll need their help plenty during the year)

The part of your quote I bolded applies equally to an athletic communications staff during a game. The 30 seconds it takes to update Twitter each time a goal is scored or whatever doesn't come from down time when you're sitting around doing nothing.

Yea I thought about Title 9 and Hobart, and I'm not sure how that works with a d1 lacrosse program, as I assumed they must have a larger budget all around for lax.  I've been a Hobart Lax fan since I was a kid, and when I started to get more serious about lax  (I started playing lax too late and wanted to play football and lax there until the assistant lax coach hinted to me about the upcoming move to d1 and they wouldn't have as many dual-sport players anymore (and I wasn't good enough)).  It would be frustrating to me to see a program like Boston University start a d1 lax program and within 3 years have a top 10 team, and I can't even get a score update from Hobart.

I assume Hobart uses the same financial aid structure that Ivy league schools do, but it obviously ties their hands behind their backs when competing against schools that offer athletic scholarships and are a fraction of the price (Albany).

[Bartman]

There's a joke in Iowa:
If Missouri were to annex the southern-most counties of Iowa, it would raise the IQ of both states.

Well, this move by Buffalo State appears to have the same effect. Using my 2017 preseason ratings for each team, here's how the move would affect conference ratings/standings:

Conference	Current Rating	Post-Realignment Rating
Empire 8	0.730 (6th nationally)	0.734 (6)
Liberty League	0.640 (9)	0.651 (9)

Hmmm...interesting analysis....Hobart and LL should be recruiting more in Iowa . Buff State and Hobart have had scrimmages last couple of years, so they are quite familiar with each other.....still room for Vassar Football if NCAA goes to 8 teams for AQ....happy LL would keep AQ for now....so,if the vote confirms this..... Buff State welcome to the Liberty League!