FB: Liberty League

[Bombers798891]

  I'm a little surprised that fans of a school with a similar football tradition -- namely, Ithaca -- would back an underwhelming OOC schedule. 

I'd be happy to share the notes I've received from folks close to the program over the past year that would explain my basis for my statements. 

Look, I get it. You're proud of Union's great football history. You should be. But that doesn't mean things always need to be done in deference to that. Your second comment brings up something I've thought a lot about, though. I knew a more than a few people "close to the program" at IC who could not move on from the Butterfield era. Every time we'd talk about the team, it would turn into them complaining about how Welch's kids weren't the same type of kids Butts had, the program didn't have the same type of standards for X and Y, and that's why we weren't winning like we used to. And I mean, Mike Welch revered Jim Butterfield and how he built this program, and kept a lot of things in place. He also won more than he was given credit for, IMO.

I'm not saying the view of the people you've spoken to isn't valid. I just honestly don't know if what worked for Union (or any private school in upstate NY) in their 1980s/early 1990s heyday, or even their great 2005 team would work now. I say in all seriousness that you have a better idea of that than me, and if you think they're doing a disservice to the program by this type of scheduling, okay. I'm offering up a less-informed counter opinion, but it's not really about Union, per se. It's about this idea that tough schedules are going to breed success down the line

[ITH radio]

LL Coaches Poll:

1. Hobart
2. RPI
3. SLU
4. IC
5. Union
6. ROC

That's not how I saw the 2-4 places in the KO predictions.

[dlippiel]

LL Coaches Poll:

1. Hobart
2. RPI
3. SLU
4. IC
5. Union
6. ROC

That's not how I saw the 2-4 places in the KO predictions.

Dlip's only question is RPI over SLU. He doesn't see that happening. With that said as usual dlip really doesn't know what to expect from the Engineers. Also dlip could see IC surprising.

[Bengalsrule]

I guess I'm one of the fortunate ones today. I'm 18 minutes from watching this years pree season #14 Hobart Statesmen, take on my beloved Buffalo State Bengals, at Coyer field,  in a controlled scrimmage.  Great measuring stick for my Bengals!

[dlippiel]

I guess I'm one of the fortunate ones today. I'm 18 minutes from watching this years pree season #14 Hobart Statesmen, take on my beloved Buffalo State Bengals, at Coyer field,  in a controlled scrimmage.  Great measuring stick for my Bengals!

Please let us know what you see. 

[Bengalsrule]

I guess I'm one of the fortunate ones today. I'm 18 minutes from watching this years pree season #14 Hobart Statesmen, take on my beloved Buffalo State Bengals, at Coyer field,  in a controlled scrimmage.  Great measuring stick for my Bengals!

Please let us know what you see. 

Hobart qb is surgical.A perfect 40 yd skinny post followed by a 15 comeback to the outside! 2 plays later rb takes it in from 10 yds out!  Less than 8 plays and 70 yds - td

[Bengalsrule]

End of first quarter 7-0. Buff State pretty much has stopped Hobart since first drive. Bengals threw pick on first drive.  Hobart nor Buff State able to do anything. 2nd quarter begins with Hobart driving and coughing up ball inside 20. Buff State ball in it's on 31.

[Bengalsrule]

Bengals march 69 yards in less than 8 plays. Score from 5 yds out. Tied at 7!

[Bengalsrule]

10-10 at the half. Heading home !

[ITH radio]

Hobart took out 1st team O after first drive. A little sloppy play by 2nd team but good learning opportunity against a good Bengals squad.

[UfanBill]

This is my first post of the new season. I've been reading the discussion of Union's OOC schedule. Since I've been watching Union football since 1968 I think I have a valid opinion. Today Union scrimmages Utica College. A decade ago Union also had a series of scrimmages against Utica. At first Utica, then a fledgling program, couldn't stay with the Dutchman but every seceding year they got better. When Utica became a regular season opponent in 2011 they where ready. They beat Union four years in a row, by ever increasing margins. Union was also losing OOC games to Salve Regina, Western Connecticut and Western New England. These were supposed "cupcakes". If they were scheduled to pad the W/L record it certainly didn't work that way. Was it the fault of poor players, lack of support from the administration, bad luck,...just what was happening. I firmly believe Union had ample talent on those teams that ultimately lost 18 straight OOC games. In many cases they simply ran up against quickly improving opponents that really,really wanted to knock off Union. In my opinion the overwhelming problem was ever spreading POOR coaching...and before you ask, how do I recognize poor coaching, let me assure you I played the game (at Union) coached the game and have attended and watched hundreds of football games. I recognize poor preparation, poor schemes, poor play calling and misuse of players abilities. Was all or any of that coach Audino's fault? Well, I'd certainty put most of the blame on him but was it his assistants that weren't getting it done? Whose fault is it when your special teams play is abysmal? Whose when you repeatedly can't get a yard on that critical 3rd/4th and one from a ONE BACK SET? Whose fault when you insist on a "big play" offense instead of sustained drives? When you run a 3-4 D that can't stop the run OR cover the pass? That's NOT the AD, NOT a question of money, NOT lack of talent or effort. It's the coaching. A coaches primary responsibility to his players is to give them the best chance for success. Those last few Audino years that wasn't happening at Union. Last year I saw improvement. If scheduling a soft OOC helps coach Berhman get Union some wins, great. I'm hoping this year's schedule is more a function of finding ten games. If he was looking for easy why only four home games? I don't think he'll continue to play cupcakes but let's beat those cupcakes first.

[dlippiel]

Union/Utica scrimmage now pushed back to 4pm.

[Frank Rossi]

Bill - I won't recap your entire post, but one thing jumped out at me as silly... If you're saying that needing a yard on a critical play with a one-back set isn't the fault of the AD and talent, then I think you need to look at the entirety of the situation.  A quality back with sufficient strength and an O-Line with sufficient strength should be able to get that yard without blinking.  So, what does it come down to?  One of two things (or both): 1) level of talent at positions; and/or 2) strength training.

Let me address #2 since I actually handled the specifics on that one more directly during my time as Treasurer of the booster club for a year.  The booster club was "asked" by the powers that be to spend a good chunk of money on the strength coach for several years -- except, the coach selected was actually someone geared toward ice hockey (football had little to no say on the selection -- at least we as a booster club weren't asked for input despite our spending).  The strength and conditioning between the two sports are miles apart -- in other words, we were being essentially forced to spend money on that position without, from what I and others could tell, really any benefit derived from it.  Football deserved a strength coach that focused on football strength and conditioning -- pure and simple.  I called out this issue, among others, during my time in that position, including after Audino was shown the door, and finally, we were assured that the $8k or whatever the chunk we were paying as a booster club was at the time would no longer be charged against our account (I have the numbers stored away and could tell you exactly if you really wanted to know).  It's one thing when your booster club has become your source for major budget-line items in a football program.  It's another when the booster club is paying for something that doesn't actually support the program in any real way.  So, if you're wondering why it became tough to gain that yard, this may have had some influence on that issue.

[Bombers798891]

Bill - I won't recap your entire post, but one thing jumped out at me as silly... If you're saying that needing a yard on a critical play with a one-back set isn't the fault of the AD and talent, then I think you need to look at the entirety of the situation.  A quality back with sufficient strength and an O-Line with sufficient strength should be able to get that yard without blinking.  So, what does it come down to?  One of two things (or both): 1) level of talent at positions; and/or 2) strength training.

I agree with Frank here. Ithaca had the exact same problem (short yardage runs) for several years, most notably in 2011. In a scenario like the one you're describing, you either have the players to control the line and gain the yard or you don't. We're not talking about running a complex offensive system.

I used to work for a trade magazine for HS and college coaches, and we would write Q&As in every issue. They usually fell into one of two broad categories:

1. The coach who took over for a great program and kept it great in their own way
2. The coach who turned around a struggling program

There wasn't a single coach in latter category who did not insist that it all started from the top down. They got support and buy in from upper-level administration. Yes, there were other components, but it all started there. And when we talked to ADs who turned programs around, it was the same thing.

Coaches can be good or bad. But programs are more than their coaching staff.

[dlippiel]

Dlip was quite impressed with his beloved Dutchmen yesterday.

At half Union was up 3-0 after what dlip believes was a half of first team match-ups. He really didn't expect them to look as polished as they did. Dlip was impressed with the play of some of the freshman. To dlip the biggest ? will be the O-line. Yesterday dlip saw two freshman, a sophomore, a junior, and a senior (with not much experience) getting time on the first team. The D looked very athletic and disciplined (which aside from vast improvements last season) we also haven't seen at Union in a very long time.

Another bright spot was the play of QB's junior Nick Cascione and freshman Louisiana native Will Bellemy. Cascione looked as polished as dlip has ever seen and Bellemy just seems like he can be flat out good. It's a healthy competition that will hopefully result in some consistency at the QB position that Union has not had in some time. Again, the O-line will play a huge role in that.

Overall there will certainly be some growing pains and learning curves for the Dutch but if they play like they did yesterday there will be many signs of growth and positives to come this season.