FB: Liberty League

[Bombers798891]

Union has improved drastically. They control their own destiny for the LL, which is something you wouldn't have expected a few years ago

[Caz Bombers]

happy trails to longtime Union SID Eric McDowell. Surprised to see it happen in the middle of football and start of hockey season, but it's a tough job and time with family is paramount. From personal experience, Eric is a real solid dude. Fair winds and following seas.

https://dailygazette.com/article/2017/10/07/sid-mcdowell-out-at-union

[Bartman]

Another thing I'm sure you all noticed...The Union College Dutchman are for real...Coach Jeff Behrman and his staff have done a masterful job with the young Dutchman. They've built team chemistry and confidence while finding a way to win some close road games. They're building depth by giving a very talented group of firstyears significant playing time. Granted the schedule thus far has not been strong but based on the way they pushed around St. Lawrence Saturday the Dutchman are ready for the more challenging games ahead. QB Nick Cascione has lead the offense with efficiency despite the injuries that have altered his surrounding cast. RB Connor Kinzelman has missed 2 1/2 games and was very limited against St. Lawrence but did score on a 47 yd. run. Backup RB Derek Khnaizir was a DNP and his availability is in question. WR Griffin Beal, probably the teams biggest surprise, left the game injured and did not return. Look I know every team has injuries, I'm hoping the Dutchman can get healthy for the stretch run, but this year's team has the depth needed...next man up.  I'm excited to see what Union can do from here. I'm sure the rest of the LL has taken notice. Bring it on!   

Looking forward to a meaningful game on 10/21 between the Dutchmen and the Statesmen......I no longer "feel bad" for Union Football.....Notice has been taken.....

[Pat Coleman]

happy trails to longtime Union SID Eric McDowell. Surprised to see it happen in the middle of football and start of hockey season, but it's a tough job and time with family is paramount. From personal experience, Eric is a real solid dude. Fair winds and following seas.

https://dailygazette.com/article/2017/10/07/sid-mcdowell-out-at-union

More than a solid dude! It's real unusual for an SID to leave at this time of year. I hope it really was Eric's choice.

[dlippiel]

happy trails to longtime Union SID Eric McDowell. Surprised to see it happen in the middle of football and start of hockey season, but it's a tough job and time with family is paramount. From personal experience, Eric is a real solid dude. Fair winds and following seas.

https://dailygazette.com/article/2017/10/07/sid-mcdowell-out-at-union

More than a solid dude! It's real unusual for an SID to leave at this time of year. I hope it really was Eric's choice.

Eric is awesome!! Don't know what happened there but man dlip hopes everything is ok with him. Wishing hm all the best and so appreciative of Eric's tremendous talents and all he did for Union. Whatever really happened here dlip believes the school and student athletes lose the most from Eric's departure. He is one of a kind!

[Bombers798891]

Time for something I used to do over on the E8 boards: Conference power rankings!

I do this just to spark discussion and debate, so I hope some of you disagree with me. One note; over the years, I've gone back and forth over the question of what the tops of the rankings should show. Should it be the "best" teams, i.e. the one I think would win on a neutral field over the teams below them? Or should it reflect their current shot at winning the league, which is really what we're all here for, given the paucity of Pool C bids? Ultimately, I've settled on mostly the latter, but if the evidence is strong the other way, I might switch them, especially early in the season. Here we go:

1. Ithaca (3-2, 3-0) The Bombers have turned things around in the last three weeks, and their win over Hobart was a conference shakeup. Didn't learn too much about them last week, except that they're not going to overlook teams.
2. Union (5-1, 1-0) For all the early season ink spilled about Union's soft schedule, here they are, as one of only two teams that control their own destiny for the Pool A bid. And their win over St. Lawrence was impressive, even if St. Lawrence's season has not been great
3. Hobart (4-2, 1-1) My gut says Hobart's better than Union, but they haven't really played up to their potential yet. They couldn't close out IC, and even against RPI, couldn't find the end zone until the 2nd half. They'll have their shot, but they need help
4. RPI (3-2, 0-1) The season has turned on a dime for RPI. In retrospect, the win over WP wasn't that big of a deal. And they've been outscored 48-0 in their last two second halves. But, they get IC at home, and have a chance to play spoiler.
5. St. Lawrence (1-4, 0-2) What has happened to them? Is this just one of those seasons where nothing goes right? I never thought they'd be 1-4, with the only win over a 0-6 Norwich. Bummer to see, especially because they have a IC alum as coach
6. Rochester (2-3, 0-1) Just got beat by a better team, and seem to be really struggling

[dlippiel]

Time for something I used to do over on the E8 boards: Conference power rankings!

I do this just to spark discussion and debate, so I hope some of you disagree with me. One note; over the years, I've gone back and forth over the question of what the tops of the rankings should show. Should it be the "best" teams, i.e. the one I think would win on a neutral field over the teams below them? Or should it reflect their current shot at winning the league, which is really what we're all here for, given the paucity of Pool C bids? Ultimately, I've settled on mostly the latter, but if the evidence is strong the other way, I might switch them, especially early in the season. Here we go:

1. Ithaca (3-2, 3-0) The Bombers have turned things around in the last three weeks, and their win over Hobart was a conference shakeup. Didn't learn too much about them last week, except that they're not going to overlook teams.
2. Union (5-1, 1-0) For all the early season ink spilled about Union's soft schedule, here they are, as one of only two teams that control their own destiny for the Pool A bid. And their win over St. Lawrence was impressive, even if St. Lawrence's season has not been great
3. Hobart (4-2, 1-1) My gut says Hobart's better than Union, but they haven't really played up to their potential yet. They couldn't close out IC, and even against RPI, couldn't find the end zone until the 2nd half. They'll have their shot, but they need help
4. RPI (3-2, 0-1) The season has turned on a dime for RPI. In retrospect, the win over WP wasn't that big of a deal. And they've been outscored 48-0 in their last two second halves. But, they get IC at home, and have a chance to play spoiler.
5. St. Lawrence (1-4, 0-2) What has happened to them? Is this just one of those seasons where nothing goes right? I never thought they'd be 1-4, with the only win over a 0-6 Norwich. Bummer to see, especially because they have a IC alum as coach
6. Rochester (2-3, 0-1) Just got beat by a better team, and seem to be really struggling

Nice Post bombers +k!

If your list is focused on the later then dlip does believes you've got the list correct. Of course the immediate question to dlip is, how well does each team's current record represent how "good" that team is? Especially in comparison to others in the league. Also, as you mentioned, how much does that record dictate each teams chances of winning the league title?

1.) Ithaca - To dlip, as of now, based on their current league record including their impressive win over Hobart, IC is certainly dlip's top dog in both areas. They win out, they win, period. Plus, dlip believes that the Bombers are the best team in the league right now and should be the current favorite to get the auto bid.

2.) Union - dlip places Union second here, but very hesitantly. He places them second for (probably) the same reason Bombers did, their current record in the league and their ability, as of now, to control their own destiny. However, with that being said he believes this Dutchmen team, in comparison to IC, RPI, and Hobart, may still sit below all three. Yet, with their very impressive win over SLU (where they absolutely physically dismantled the Saints on Saturday) dlip believes the Dutch could possibly fall somewhere in the middle of the aforementioned LL teams. We'll know more this weekend because if they fall flat on their asses against a very poor Roch Cha Cha team then all bets are off, literally!

3.) Hobart - The Pumpkins sit hoping for more LL craziness and for RPI to take out IC. As of now dlip believes that even though the LL chips have been stacked against the Pumpkinheads, because of their loss to the Bombers, that they staked their continued relevance by shutting out the Engineers this past Saturday.

4.) RPI - dlip refuses to comment on RPI because they suck...let's get this rivalry heated up again!!!!

5.) SLU - dlip really doesn't know what to say about the Saints. On Saturday they were dominated by a Union team whom, like dlip said earlier, we won't be convinced of how far along they are until they defeat an IC, Hobart, and/or RPI. SLU certainly has some athletes but even with Richardson, they were not the SLU we have grown accustomed to over the last few years. SLU should handle U of R and must not be taken lightly by Hobart and RPI. However, dlip does believe the Saints will end the season with only one more win. He feels badly about this though because he really enjoyed seeing the Saints have success. A strong SLU is a great thing for the LL. Hopefully they will bounce back next season.

6.) U of R - Well it took until the fourth quarter to take charge against a listless Becker team and IC reminded them that they don't really have a prayer against a "good" football team this season. Again, it pains dlip to see Rochester struggling now for so long. He wishes they could get it going out there. There are certainly some strong HS football players out in western NY. Some of whom dlip guesses are bright enough to attend an academic school of Rochester's standing.

[Bartman]

Time for something I used to do over on the E8 boards: Conference power rankings!

I do this just to spark discussion and debate, so I hope some of you disagree with me. One note; over the years, I've gone back and forth over the question of what the tops of the rankings should show. Should it be the "best" teams, i.e. the one I think would win on a neutral field over the teams below them? Or should it reflect their current shot at winning the league, which is really what we're all here for, given the paucity of Pool C bids? Ultimately, I've settled on mostly the latter, but if the evidence is strong the other way, I might switch them, especially early in the season. Here we go:

1. Ithaca (3-2, 3-0) The Bombers have turned things around in the last three weeks, and their win over Hobart was a conference shakeup. Didn't learn too much about them last week, except that they're not going to overlook teams.
2. Union (5-1, 1-0) For all the early season ink spilled about Union's soft schedule, here they are, as one of only two teams that control their own destiny for the Pool A bid. And their win over St. Lawrence was impressive, even if St. Lawrence's season has not been great
3. Hobart (4-2, 1-1) My gut says Hobart's better than Union, but they haven't really played up to their potential yet. They couldn't close out IC, and even against RPI, couldn't find the end zone until the 2nd half. They'll have their shot, but they need help
4. RPI (3-2, 0-1) The season has turned on a dime for RPI. In retrospect, the win over WP wasn't that big of a deal. And they've been outscored 48-0 in their last two second halves. But, they get IC at home, and have a chance to play spoiler.
5. St. Lawrence (1-4, 0-2) What has happened to them? Is this just one of those seasons where nothing goes right? I never thought they'd be 1-4, with the only win over a 0-6 Norwich. Bummer to see, especially because they have a IC alum as coach
6. Rochester (2-3, 0-1) Just got beat by a better team, and seem to be really struggling

Bombers,
     I can not argue with ranking IC as #1 based on the close win against Hobart, although would love to have a do over. The other "good" loss against Alfred is in IC's favor but the loss to Brockport 0-31 was pretty bad...but we will see how IC does as the hunted. I offer the following observations:
   RPI is stronger than you give them credit for . Although Hobart has started out all games slowly, the 6-0 Hobart lead at half was due to RPI competence. After the loss to Ithaca, Cragg challenged his coaches and team. The defense has now come together probably for the first time this season(RPI was the most productive offense in the LL before the game) and the offense led by  Sweeney spread the ball around by completing passes to 12 receivers in the game and the RB's by committee did what they needed to do. So I think a good RPI team ran into a pissed off Hobart team and Hobart reached their potential(perhaps too late) in this game. We will find out this weekend when IC has to go on the road against a now pissed off RPI squad.
   The Union squad deserves applause for the start to the season......but their best win is to a down 1-4 Larries team that you seem to give a high value to . Hobart has beaten the conference leader in the ODAC, Shenandoah, by 56-30 and beat RPI 30-0 and their 2 losses are to the best team in the region(I feel certain about this after watching the Frostburg-Wesley game) and to the #1 team(for now )in the LL.....so Hobart behind Union at this point seems off based on the available data.
  In any event, thanks for your contributions to the LL Board and the Bombers entry into the LL..I still give you a +k for the work

[Bartman]

Time for something I used to do over on the E8 boards: Conference power rankings!

I do this just to spark discussion and debate, so I hope some of you disagree with me. One note; over the years, I've gone back and forth over the question of what the tops of the rankings should show. Should it be the "best" teams, i.e. the one I think would win on a neutral field over the teams below them? Or should it reflect their current shot at winning the league, which is really what we're all here for, given the paucity of Pool C bids? Ultimately, I've settled on mostly the latter, but if the evidence is strong the other way, I might switch them, especially early in the season. Here we go:

1. Ithaca (3-2, 3-0) The Bombers have turned things around in the last three weeks, and their win over Hobart was a conference shakeup. Didn't learn too much about them last week, except that they're not going to overlook teams.
2. Union (5-1, 1-0) For all the early season ink spilled about Union's soft schedule, here they are, as one of only two teams that control their own destiny for the Pool A bid. And their win over St. Lawrence was impressive, even if St. Lawrence's season has not been great
3. Hobart (4-2, 1-1) My gut says Hobart's better than Union, but they haven't really played up to their potential yet. They couldn't close out IC, and even against RPI, couldn't find the end zone until the 2nd half. They'll have their shot, but they need help
4. RPI (3-2, 0-1) The season has turned on a dime for RPI. In retrospect, the win over WP wasn't that big of a deal. And they've been outscored 48-0 in their last two second halves. But, they get IC at home, and have a chance to play spoiler.
5. St. Lawrence (1-4, 0-2) What has happened to them? Is this just one of those seasons where nothing goes right? I never thought they'd be 1-4, with the only win over a 0-6 Norwich. Bummer to see, especially because they have a IC alum as coach
6. Rochester (2-3, 0-1) Just got beat by a better team, and seem to be really struggling

Nice Post bombers +k!

If your list is focused on the later then dlip does believes you've got the list correct. Of course the immediate question to dlip is, how well does each team's current record represent how "good" that team is? Especially in comparison to others in the league. Also, as you mentioned, how much does that record dictate each teams chances of winning the league title?

1.) Ithaca - To dlip, as of now, based on their current league record including their impressive win over Hobart, IC is certainly dlip's top dog in both areas. They win out, they win, period. Plus, dlip believes that the Bombers are the best team in the league right now and should be the current favorite to get the auto bid.

2.) Union - dlip places Union second here, but very hesitantly. He places them second for (probably) the same reason Bombers did, their current record in the league and their ability, as of now, to control their own destiny. However, with that being said he believes this Dutchmen team, in comparison to IC, RPI, and Hobart, may still sit below all three. Yet, with their very impressive win over SLU (where they absolutely physically dismantled the Saints on Saturday) dlip believes the Dutch could possibly fall somewhere in the middle of the aforementioned LL teams. We'll know more this weekend because if they fall flat on their asses against a very poor Roch Cha Cha team then all bets are off, literally!

3.) Hobart - The Pumpkins sit hoping for more LL craziness and for RPI to take out IC. As of now dlip believes that even though the LL chips have been stacked against the Pumpkinheads, because of their loss to the Bombers, that they staked their continued relevance by shutting out the Engineers this past Saturday.

4.) RPI - dlip refuses to comment on RPI because they suck...let's get this rivalry heated up again!!!!

5.) SLU - dlip really doesn't know what to say about the Saints. On Saturday they were dominated by a Union team whom, like dlip said earlier, we won't be convinced of how far along they are until they defeat an IC, Hobart, and/or RPI. SLU certainly has some athletes but even with Richardson, they were not the SLU we have grown accustomed to over the last few years. SLU should handle U of R and must not be taken lightly by Hobart and RPI. However, dlip does believe the Saints will end the season with only one more win. He feels badly about this though because he really enjoyed seeing the Saints have success. A strong SLU is a great thing for the LL. Hopefully they will bounce back next season.

6.) U of R - Well it took until the fourth quarter to take charge against a listless Becker team and IC reminded them that they don't really have a prayer against a "good" football team this season. Again, it pains dlip to see Rochester struggling now for so long. He wishes they could get it going out there. There are certainly some strong HS football players out in western NY. Some of whom dlip guesses are bright enough to attend an academic school of Rochester's standing.
[/quote

+k to dlip for his complete commitment to the Dutchmen and for their clear path to the LL title....Unfortunately the Statesman have been awakened for the rest of the season(perhaps too late) and are looking forward to playing on Frank Bailey Field on 10/21 for a battle with the Dutchmen  like the old days

[Bombers798891]

Time for something I used to do over on the E8 boards: Conference power rankings!

I do this just to spark discussion and debate, so I hope some of you disagree with me. One note; over the years, I've gone back and forth over the question of what the tops of the rankings should show. Should it be the "best" teams, i.e. the one I think would win on a neutral field over the teams below them? Or should it reflect their current shot at winning the league, which is really what we're all here for, given the paucity of Pool C bids? Ultimately, I've settled on mostly the latter, but if the evidence is strong the other way, I might switch them, especially early in the season. Here we go:

1. Ithaca (3-2, 3-0) The Bombers have turned things around in the last three weeks, and their win over Hobart was a conference shakeup. Didn't learn too much about them last week, except that they're not going to overlook teams.
2. Union (5-1, 1-0) For all the early season ink spilled about Union's soft schedule, here they are, as one of only two teams that control their own destiny for the Pool A bid. And their win over St. Lawrence was impressive, even if St. Lawrence's season has not been great
3. Hobart (4-2, 1-1) My gut says Hobart's better than Union, but they haven't really played up to their potential yet. They couldn't close out IC, and even against RPI, couldn't find the end zone until the 2nd half. They'll have their shot, but they need help
4. RPI (3-2, 0-1) The season has turned on a dime for RPI. In retrospect, the win over WP wasn't that big of a deal. And they've been outscored 48-0 in their last two second halves. But, they get IC at home, and have a chance to play spoiler.
5. St. Lawrence (1-4, 0-2) What has happened to them? Is this just one of those seasons where nothing goes right? I never thought they'd be 1-4, with the only win over a 0-6 Norwich. Bummer to see, especially because they have a IC alum as coach
6. Rochester (2-3, 0-1) Just got beat by a better team, and seem to be really struggling

Bombers,
     I can not argue with ranking IC as #1 based on the win close win against Hobart, although would love to have a do over. The other "good" loss against Alfred is in IC's favor but the loss to Brockport 0-31 was pretty bad...but we will see how IC does as the hunted. I offer the following observations:
   RPI is stronger than you give them credit for . Although Hobart has started out all games slowly, the 6-0 Hobart lead at half was due to RPI competence. After the loss to Ithaca, Cragg challenged his coaches and team. The defense has now come together probably for the first time this season(RPI was the most productive offense in the LL before the game) and the offense led by  Sweeney spread the ball around by completing passes to 12 receivers in the game and the RB's by committee did what they needed to do. So I think a good RPI team ran into a pissed off Hobart team and Hobart reached their potential(perhaps too late) in this game. We will find out this weekend when IC has to go on the road against a now pissed off RPI squad.
   The Union squad deserves applause for the start to the season......but their best win is to a down 1-4 Larries team that you seem to give a high value to . Hobart has beaten the conference leader in the ODAC, Shenandoah, by 56-30 and beat RPI 30-0 and their 2 losses are to the best team in the region(I feel certain about this after watching the Frostburg-Wesley game) and to the #1 team(for now )in the LL.....so Hobart behind Union at this point seems off based on the available data.
  In any event, thanks for your contributions to the LL Board and the Bombers entry into the LL..I still give you a +k for the work

Thanks for the feedback! Before I get too deep into my feelings on Bart, I want to reiterate that, I think they probably beat Union when they play.

I think my hesitation about Hobart is based on a feeling, that something just isn't clicking. I guess the Ithaca game is a prime example. They have the ball with 2:12 to go, and a first down basically salts the game away. But they have two runs that go nowhere*, and then take a 12-man on the field penalty. After IC's touchdown, they make a terrible mistake on the kickoff and go out at the six. (This was the 2nd time in the half Hobart had to start a drive inside their own 10 following a kickoff). They're 4-2, but they've had a home-heavy schedule. I don't know if they should have won the IC game, but they had their foot on the Bombers' throat and couldn't finish.

*Side note: Call this 20/20 hindsight, but you've got a first team AA QB and WR. Let them make the plays

There's also the Inception-style rabbit hole we get into with quality of opponent. How good is their win over RPI? Well, they're 3-2 with wins over WPI, WNE, and WP. WP is terrible. Is WPI any good? They're 4-2, but three of those wins are over winless teams. How about WNE? 3-2 with wins over 1-5 Westfield State, 4-1 Husson, and 1-4 St Lawrence.

I'm not totally sold on RPI's wins being great. And while the loss to Buffalo State looked good when the Bengals were 3-0, they've been beaten soundly two weeks in a row. So, I'm sort of torn about how good RPI is, and that's kind of keeping me away from committing to Bart.

I think we'll learn a lot more this week. Bart has a pesky Hartwick team, and let me tell you, it's all fun and games until you go to that cage. If Sweeney and his guys win impressively, I might move them up, especially since Union likely won't be challenged.

[UfanBill]

...AND DOWN THE STRETCH THEY COME...(sorry, I live in Saratoga)

   Going into the second half of the season the Liberty League has established two things...ONE: The race for the top spot is ON...TWO: While the LL has been handled by the Empire 8...2-7 with 7 matchups yet to be played...they have done well against everybody else, 11-3, with the losses to good teams Carnegie Mellon, WNE and Husson.

...This week we have two games in particular to watch...of course, Ithaca at RPI but I'm interested in Hobart at Hartwick. The Statesmen have to go to the "cage" and face pass happy Billy Pine and the Hawks. Can the Hobart D defend? If they can slow Hartwick will that mean they can handle Union's efficient but certainly less"bombastic" passing game the following week?

    And what about Ithaca? If the Bombers get past RPI they have to play E8 opponents Fisher and Utica before meeting Union week 9 at friendly Butterfield (Union like Hobart has never won there) while the Dutchmen have a week 8 bye. Will injuries be a factor? RPI and Hobart's title hopes may hinge on a Union victory. So many GREAT games yet to come. 

[dlippiel]

Here's how dlip ranks the LL if you throw the current records out:

1.) Ithaca
2.) Hobart
3.) RPI
4.) Union
5.) SLU
6.) UofR

[Jonny Utah]

Here's how dlip ranks the LL if you throw the current records out:

1.) Ithaca
2.) Hobart
3.) RPI
4.) Union
5.) SLU
6.) UofR

Have some @#$#@ you big @#$@#!!!!!!!

[Bombers798891]

So, I'm curious:

When Salisbury joined the E8 in 2011 and systematically took the league apart, we kind of got into this "How does this reflect on the conference that they did this?" debate

Obviously, Ithaca is not doing that this year, because Salisbury was winning games by 40, 50 points. But, they've still got a shot to come into the LL and run the table—while losing at least two to E8 opponents. What does that mean for the perception of the LL (for this year?)

[Bartman]

Here's how dlip ranks the LL if you throw the current records out:

1.) Ithaca
2.) Hobart
3.) RPI
4.) Union
5.) SLU
6.) UofR

dlip,  this is a pretty fair assessment to date, in my opinion. The big question is how big a leap has Union made and how representative is the 30-0 loss the Engineers took last Saturday. We will know more when the Bombers visit RPI. The entire football community of both Hobart and Union should offer the Engineers any assistance and support they need for this game( I know this is really tough for Dutchmen faithful).....it will make the race much more interesting with an Engineer win....and it will set up some great games into November.....and Dutchmen vs. Statesmen on 10/21 will be awesome......